The end of democracy in America.

1kmb1

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Hmm. I don't know how they get the count of 28 states plus DC for Obama. Nebraska had its 3 votes divided among 3 districts, of which 1 went to Obama and 2 to McCain. Not sure what that has to do with it.

i believe you missed PA and IL
 

D_Davy_Downspout

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US tax receipts are 2.2 trillion. Entitlement spending is 2.2 trillion.

Let's cut all domestic spending, defense spending and let's stop paying interest on the national debt.

Perhaps we will then have a federal budget that is suitable to Vince.

Social Security is the largest portion of that 2.2 trillion, though it's not an entitlement, it's an earned benefit.

However, it also self-funds, so it's certainly not contributing to the deficit, and won't for at least another 25 years, if then.

Any idiot knows that the cause of the deficit is tax cuts + war spending.
 

Redwyvre

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Was reading the fine print on the label of my bottle of Dr. Bronner's Magic Soap yesterday and came this quote. "Government, like fire is our most useful servant, if fully controlled by us, its Citizens; and government, exactly like fire, becomes our most destructive master if not fully controlled by the open majority of its productive working Citizens."
I don't think democracy is coming to an end in America. We're just going through an "Unraveling" phase right now. Read "The Fourth Turning" by William Strauss and Neil Howe
 

B_starinvestor

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Social Security is the largest portion of that 2.2 trillion, though it's not an entitlement, it's an earned benefit.

However, it also self-funds, so it's certainly not contributing to the deficit, and won't for at least another 25 years, if then.

Any idiot knows that the cause of the deficit is tax cuts + war spending.

Any idiot should also know social security doesn't 'self fund.' Your so-called 'earned benefit' pays out 20x more than you put in if you live to age 85.

Tax cuts didn't cause the deficit. Funny, the folks that actually pay taxes don't drain the system at all. Ipso Facto.
 

B_starinvestor

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^ 'Entitlement spending'... just the word 'entitlement' sends shivers of contempt through every Conservatives bones. Entitlements = big socialist government. They will work tirelessly to end them all even if it means taking down the government to do it.
"I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub."
-Grover Norquist​

'I'm helpless. Feed me, bathe me, coddle me and shelter me. Someone else can work and pay for my comfort. No way I'm going to work or sacrifice. I'm entitled.'
 

B_Nick8

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Any idiot should also know social security doesn't 'self fund.' Your so-called 'earned benefit' pays out 20x more than you put in if you live to age 85.

Tax cuts didn't cause the deficit. Funny, the folks that actually pay taxes don't drain the system at all. Ipso Facto.

Question for you, Star: do you really have a problem with raising taxes for the wealthy such that they simply equate to those in the Clinton years (some of the most economically comfortable in recent memory)? Because that's all Obama is suggesting.


 

B_starinvestor

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Damn right. But you left out one thing. I'd raise your taxes until you squealed Star.


Oh, and I'd never let you skip on the debt or the interest. Keep paying suckers.


I think I'd ask Paul Martin to run the US Govt. finances for about five years. It would hurt like hell for awhile. After that you'd be in fine shape and would be thankful to me.

I have a better idea. Cut all entitlement waste, and let charities care for the lazy. We'll be out of debt in 5 years.
 

TomCat84

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Minimum cuts to the defense budget should be $100 billion. BTW, starinvestor- having worked in the welfare department here in San Diego County, I do sympathize with your point of view- I saw some stupid shit I wish I could have done something about. Cash payments (actual welfare) probably need to be reformed and probably cut- and 100% tied to job training or skill enhancement. Food Stamps and Medicare/Medicaid are more difficult conundrums, and I think should be cut only after the defense budget is cut. For one, it would be difficult to have a healthy workforce if they dont get enough nutritious food. Second, Food Stamps are actually a plus for the economy, since they usually get spent 100%. They are much more effective than tax cuts for upper income brackets. The point is, the Bush/Obama tax cuts should expire, and tax rates should go back to Clinton-era levels. Cut out a bunch of shit, redirect it towards infrastructure/education. Oh, and we need to start making the Red states put their money where their mouth is: No more pork. Limit every state's federal aid to the level they send to the federal government. Period. No more of states like South Carolina railing against "San Francisco Liberals" while at the same time living off the largess of revenues from San Francisco and the rest of California. That has to stop.
 

B_starinvestor

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Question for you, Star: do you really have a problem with raising taxes for the wealthy such that they simply equate to those in the Clinton years (some of the most economically comfortable in recent memory)? Because that's all Obama is suggesting.



I don't care if they nudge up taxes. But raising taxes is like throwing an intertube to the Titanic. The spending is so fucking out of control it is indescribable. Medicaid is organized crime. Welfare is charity. Sorry to say it, but defense spending is economic stimulus. Entitlements are nothing but drain. Reduce entitlements by 70% - so only those truly in need are benefiting and our budget problems are solved overnight.
 

B_Nick8

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I don't care if they nudge up taxes. But raising taxes is like throwing an intertube to the Titanic. The spending is so fucking out of control it is indescribable. Medicaid is organized crime. Welfare is charity. Sorry to say it, but defense spending is economic stimulus. Entitlements are nothing but drain. Reduce entitlements by 70% - so only those truly in need are benefiting and our budget problems are solved overnight.

Iceberg, straight ahead!

Surprisingly, I agree with most of what you say (except the "crime" part). You even make a nod toward compassion which is unusual for you. It's an ironic truism, but for the most part, we all agree about what the problems are; we disagree about how to solve them.
 

B_Nick8

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Wow... so defense spending is "stimulus" now? The wars are supposed to be helping our economy and rebuilding our infrastructure? Care to explain that one?

I kind of understand star here. Indirectly, it sort of is. God knows what we're going to do for all the soldiers when we finally shut down the wars and they're actually home, looking for jobs.
 

D_Davy_Downspout

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Any idiot should also know social security doesn't 'self fund.' Your so-called 'earned benefit' pays out 20x more than you put in if you live to age 85.

I'm sorry, you can't just make up reality. SS is entirely self funded, ie the taxes that fund SS have been larger than the expenditures, and any shortfall covered by the trust fund.

Provided nothing changes, the trust fund is projected to be unable to cover any shoftfall 25 years from now.

There is no argument here, SS is entirely self-funded and cannot be causing the deficit.

Tax cuts didn't cause the deficit. Funny, the folks that actually pay taxes don't drain the system at all. Ipso Facto.

Tax revenues at an all time low. You're flat wrong.
 

Redwyvre

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I don't care if they nudge up taxes. But raising taxes is like throwing an intertube to the Titanic. The spending is so fucking out of control it is indescribable. Medicaid is organized crime. Welfare is charity. Sorry to say it, but defense spending is economic stimulus. Entitlements are nothing but drain. Reduce entitlements by 70% - so only those truly in need are benefiting and our budget problems are solved overnight.
Would veterans benefits fall under defense spending or entitlements?
 

eurotop40

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I kind of understand star here. Indirectly, it sort of is. God knows what we're going to do for all the soldiers when we finally shut down the wars and they're actually home, looking for jobs.

That happened in Italy after WWI and was the prelude to social unrest and finally to the fascist regime.
 

B_Nick8

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I'm sorry, you can't just make up reality. SS is entirely self funded, ie the taxes that fund SS have been larger than the expenditures, and any shortfall covered by the trust fund.

You know I loves me my libs, but as I understand it, you're wrong. SS is in the dumps because it's entirely not self-funded now. When it was put into place, there were something like two people contributing for every one drawing. Now, it's like one to four. Even I, if I'm to be honest, have to acknowledge that those rates are unsustainable.
 

nudeyorker

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I have to do some research but I was told that Social Security had a surplus and the US Treasury borrowed from it to help fund "The War" and that is the reason Social Security has a deficit right now. If I'm wrong let me know, if someone knows more about this fill us in please.
 

Redwyvre

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but SS and Medicare are "funded" by payroll taxes. What happens to this money between the time it goes into the system and when it is paid out is mysterious. I believe it becomes part of a trust fund and I hope it is being invested wisely. Btw payroll taxes have been reduced this year to help stimulate the economy.