The Expectations of Men to Pay in Relationships?

Discussion in 'Relationships, Discrimination, and Jealousy' started by _Jonesy, Feb 16, 2012.

  1. _Jonesy

    _Jonesy Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    Messages:
    558
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    This is a new one for me, and I am curious on other peoples views.

    Recently I have been seeing a new girl, roughly for about 4 weeks and honestly it was going pretty good. I was taking things slower and it was really settling nicely. Obviously in the dates I was the ideal gentleman, paying for dates, complimenting her, holding her chair out and everything. This is something I always expect.

    The other day though she dropped a bombshell and I am wondering how many women share this view. I always thought that when a relationship was to start it became a bit more give and take... not just with money but everything. You want each other to feel special.

    This girl told me she has been brought up with the principle that she should never have to do any organising or paying in a relationship. This is everything from say days out to the cinema, taxi rides, nights out and even holidays. I was always told that these days women were much more independent and proud of their achievements and would find it unrealistic for the man to do everything.

    Needless to say I am suddenly wondering what to do about this girl. I like the idea of being a gentleman and paying for restaurants or days out but she is saying literally, everything and she would never change that view. It makes me feel that the relationship would become much more one-sided.

    Is this a common notion in this modern day and age or has her mother brought her up to expect the man to do everything (she told me it was her mothers influence in this case). I feel a bit used and taken for granted, personally.
     
  2. Joll

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    14,522
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    723
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Wales (GB)
    Don't blame you - she sounds a bit spoilt, tbh.
     
  3. Wrat

    Wrat New Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2006
    Messages:
    806
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    21
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    As mentioned above, in the middle, between the eas
    In my opinion, being passive in the ways you describe is a control mechanism. Here she has none of the responsibility of making the plans, but it's all for her amusement, so if she can get you to react to her expressing displeasure with the way things turn out then she is in complete control.
    This may not be the case, but it's happened to me, and I am not the first or last person it will happen to.
     
  4. petite

    petite New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Messages:
    7,539
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    34
    Gender:
    Female
    Whoa! Yeah, I wouldn't mess with her any more. If she thinks that is reasonable, just imagine how many other crazy ideas she has? Best to leave this one alone.

    I was actually dumped once because I insisted on paying. I didn't realize that he would be personally offended, but apparently I embarrassed him by insisting on paying for something in front of his friends and he felt humiliated. I thought I was being a good girlfriend. So for every one of her in the world, there's a guy who agrees with her. Let those two be together. :wink:
     
  5. rtg

    rtg
    Verified Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Messages:
    1,204
    Albums:
    4
    Likes Received:
    3,394
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Brisbane (QLD, AU)
    Verified:
    Photo
    Sorry to hear about this, Jonesy. Sounds like she wants to be treated like a princess, but doesn't believe in also taking care of/rewarding her prince.

    While I think it's nice for guys to pay at the beginning and every now and then, I never expect it. Even on a first date I will insist on paying for myself. I mostly always insist on paying for myself. The only time I will not insist on such is when I actually can't afford it, and I will say that upfront too.

    The fact that she doesn't want to treat you to things is quite shitty tbh. If you care about someone, you want to do nice things for them and pay for the date/buy them gifts/surprise them with a weekend away, etc. every now and then. While I appreciate my bf paying for a lot of things, I feel so guilty when he does.

    Perhaps she also doesn't really value money? I know that since I've started working fulltime I appreciate how hard I work for my money; how hard a lot of ppl work for their money. Which is why I don't want someone to spend all of their hard earned money on me.

    Have you spoken to her about it?
     
  6. rtg

    rtg
    Verified Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Messages:
    1,204
    Albums:
    4
    Likes Received:
    3,394
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Brisbane (QLD, AU)
    Verified:
    Photo
    Sorry to hear about this, Jonesy. Sounds like she wants to be treated like a princess, but doesn't believe in also taking care of/rewarding her prince.

    While I think it's nice for guys to pay at the beginning and every now and then, I never expect it. Even on a first date I will insist on paying for myself. I mostly always insist on paying for myself. The only time I will not insist on such is when I actually can't afford it, and I will say that upfront too.

    The fact that she doesn't want to treat you to things is quite shitty tbh. If you care about someone, you want to do nice things for them and pay for the date/buy them gifts/surprise them with a weekend away, etc. every now and then. While I appreciate my bf paying for a lot of things, I feel so guilty when he does.

    Perhaps she also doesn't really value money? I know that since I've started working fulltime I appreciate how hard I work for my money; how hard a lot of ppl work for their money. Which is why I don't want someone to spend all of their hard earned money on me.

    Have you spoken to her about it?
     
  7. _Jonesy

    _Jonesy Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    Messages:
    558
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Agreed!

    The problem is her mothers influence. This girl once had a new BF who she invited to meet her mother, who then proceeded to point out all his flaws in front of her. She said this was embarrassing and yet she analyses my every move.

    She said to me once:

    "I'm used to being made to feel irresistible by my ex"

    This line worried me greatly. Her ex, it turned out, did everything for her. Spoilt her rotten, made her feel like she was too good for him etc. In the end she dumped him because he stopped and she said she felt like she deserved the attention. I think he stopped because he felt like a slave. It doesn't sound like she gives much in the way of affection back.

    I don't want to be somebodies slave, but I did think the story would interest you.

    It seems like such an archaic idea. The relationship sounds more like ownership than anything close to affection and love. Personally, even if I insisted on paying the fact the girl offered is enough for me to know she isn't taking it for granted and wants to contribute to the relationship in equal share.

    @rtg - yeah I have spoken to her about it, she was upfront about not changing her views. I can't afford to pay for us both to go abroad lol.
     
    #7 _Jonesy, Feb 16, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2012
  8. hairyversmuscle

    hairyversmuscle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2010
    Messages:
    533
    Albums:
    3
    Likes Received:
    373
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Midwest - USA
    Talk to her about it even though she says that is the way she brought up, she was brought up WRONG! She is using you.

    You are 100% correct in you wanting give and take. Relationships will fail if they are one sided.

    There are still women who feel that way and there are men out there who do as well. Somewhere there is a guy who will pay for her meal, movie tickets, gas, cab fare, dessert, flowers, clothes she wants when walks by a store window, jewelry, and probably give her money when she asks for it. But it doesn't sound like you are that guy and you are wise to not be that guy. Perhaps after she has been dumped many times because of this, she will learn to take responsibility.

    If you want to stay in the relationship on her terms, make sure it becomes on your terms. From this point forward she does what you say, and you make all the decisions since you ARE the one paying for it. You decided the movie, you decide where to eat dinner and you even decide what she gets to eat and drink, you decided what chair she sits in, you decide what time, since you are paying for it all.
     
  9. D_Dick_S_Lapp

    D_Dick_S_Lapp Account Disabled

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    Messages:
    961
    Likes Received:
    0
    If your deciding not to continue things with her then i'd say congrats. You dodged a large bullet. Just like petite and hairyversmuscle said, let her be with the guys that like to do what she's asking for. In a situation like this, it would be a waste of both your time and effort. I never could come to an understanding about this...method...of relationship. That one sided slope has to have some sort of trail off or excess BS going on.
     
  10. erratic

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Messages:
    4,410
    Likes Received:
    287
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canada
    For her sake as much as yours, I think you should let her know how eminently resistible she actually is by dumping her ass and finding someone who is as good to you as you are to her. People who have that kind of entitlement that it sounds like this woman has almost always end up living shitty lives, and so do those who allow themselves to be snared in that kind of trap.

    I'm guessing she's young, so she's used to getting away with it. That doesn't last. The sooner she knows that you get out of it what you put into it, the better.

    DTMFA.
     
  11. Wrat

    Wrat New Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2006
    Messages:
    806
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    21
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    As mentioned above, in the middle, between the eas
    Another thought might be that she is getting whatever she wants without making any effort. She's not even providing the ideas. Our experience shows us that people who get what they want without effort tend not to value the things people give them or do for them because they feel entitled to them. So my question would be how long is it before she finds something else to amuse her?
     
  12. D_Dick_S_Lapp

    D_Dick_S_Lapp Account Disabled

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2011
    Messages:
    961
    Likes Received:
    0
    That kind of goes both ways though doesn't it? If a guy or person is managing all that the relationship entails and has some issues he/she may need help with, wouldn't the dependent and maybe un-knowledgeable person be more of a weight? Also, i'd venture a guess that it isn't all that difficult to do nothing (if in fact thats what is going on) and well anybody can do nothing.

    I don't know thats kind of the part i don't get about those sorts of relationships. I can understand emotional support but when it comes down to it even that can be replaced with a good friend or family member right?
     
  13. petite

    petite New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Messages:
    7,539
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    34
    Gender:
    Female
    When I was 21 years old, I experimented with dating older men who were ~10 years older than me. There were a few who pursued me who were much older, though. I noticed a consistent theme that they assumed that I would be making no decisions. The question of whether I would pay never came up. I wasn't comfortable with those assumptions.

    I ended up concluding that a lot of men who pursue relationships with women who were my age (21) were seeking a woman who would be more "compliant" to their wants and whom they would act more like a "daddy" to than an equal. I was not that woman. I was seeking someone who would treat me like an equal and I was at least twice as opinionated and outspoken as I am now. :tongue: :wink:

    I believe that you shouldn't try to change people you want to date in major ways, like attempting to alter their ideas of masculine and feminine roles. If your values don't match the other person's values, then you won't make a happy couple together. Criticize that woman all you want, but obviously there exist men for whom she would make an ideal mate, and you never know, she could find someone whose values match her own and they could end up happy together.

    Personally I think finding a good mate is in part knowing early on when to continue the search with other people because you won't work out with this person.
     
    #13 petite, Feb 16, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2012
  14. Gecko4lif

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,294
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    26
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Pensacola , Fl
    Thats hilarious.

    If she is gonna act like that she better be in the kitchen making my meals, cleaning my house and sucking my dick while I watch tv because anybody who acts like that sure as hell isnt an equal.
     
  15. rtg

    rtg
    Verified Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2011
    Messages:
    1,204
    Albums:
    4
    Likes Received:
    3,394
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Brisbane (QLD, AU)
    Verified:
    Photo
    I think you are much too good for her Jonesy! You are such a lovely, kind, caring and thoughtful guy and deserve someone who makes you feel appreciated...and someone who actually does appreciate you, rather just just expecting things and not being grateful for it!

    Here's what you should do: take her out to an expensive restaurant for dinner, after you order the lobster and most expensive entre and dessert, excuse yourself to go to the 'bathroom'...then do a runner and leave that ungrateful, demanding biatch with the bill ;) oh, and don't forget to get the waitress' number on the way out. haha.
     
  16. _Jonesy

    _Jonesy Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    Messages:
    558
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    To those wondering I do know exactly why this view has blossomed so vividly in her mind. The first is her mother sharing those views and placing them in her mind as she was nurtured. The second is her only relationship where the guy probably liked her too much by the sounds and thought she was worth complying to her wishes. She said they never went abroad or did much because he couldn't afford it and therefore, he didn't treat her as she hoped... she ended it.

    All I can say is those values are messed up big style. She will never find love like that, because by the sounds she is massively superficial.

    The search continues.
     
    #16 _Jonesy, Feb 16, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2012
  17. spoon

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Messages:
    3,224
    Albums:
    3
    Likes Received:
    55
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    On a dark desert highway.

    my very first-gut reply was: there couldn't still be women in the world like this. conjured up very, very, very, very, very antiquated notions on dating.

    jonsey, my advice to you is..................run as fast as you can away from her.
     
  18. rbkwp

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Messages:
    29,352
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,956
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Auckland (AUK, NZ)
    days of old, prior to Women gaining there rightful place beside the manipulative male (some of us)
    altho now i get mightly pissed off' when i courteously, for no nasty reason at all, let a lady go first, and she gives me the most filthy of looks.............. just a common courtesy thing, and she takes it the wrong way grrrrrrrrrrrrr

    I am sure you will,make the right decision re your further relationship with her, plenty of brilliant feedback on yr thread
    if she has stated there will be no change
    well to me ... bugger that,
     
  19. dolfette

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2006
    Messages:
    11,901
    Likes Received:
    26
    the man. THE man. our first meal, i sneakily paid while he wasn't looking. he was less than happy. after that he would grab my wrist if i reached for my purse.

    some guys like to take the lead.

    i'm happy either way. it depends on the relationship. i don't expect or demand, i wouldn't accept it on a casual basis... but...

    for the right guy, if it made him happier AND it was within his means to do so without suffering and hardship, i would.
     
  20. _Jonesy

    _Jonesy Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    Messages:
    558
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Just so were clear I do like to take the lead, and I think it is a nice gesture that reinforces why I would make a good partner (at least in one sense) but it is when the girl announces that she expects it and thinks she deserves it that it becomes a bit of a sour topic.

    I'd rather do it for someone who appreciates and therefore would want to do something back than someone who expects it and doesn't think anything of it.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted