The fall of Christianity in America

[Freddie53]

You are from England so you know your history of how the English language came to be. It is all about which group of people that brought the word to England as to which suffix is on the end. I suspect that Christian is originally Latin and ist is Germann. I am guessing I don't know.

About your quote about Marx. Communism became a religion to some. Your comments about some Christians particularly "fundie" Christians are so very true. But the word Christian means Christ like. When we look at Jesus (Christ) then we see many "christians" are so much like Jesus. Then we see the others and wonder which Jesus they know.

And the same is true of Marx, Wasn't it Stalin and Mao who killed millions of people while affirming the Marx philsophy? Name any a group, any group, and if a person looks long enough, that person will fine some real "saints" in the group and some real "assholes" in the group.

Why? All groups have humans and don't we know human behavior. A true Marxist is trying to help his fellow man. A true follower of Jesus is doing the same. Unfortunately, the assholes hijacked both movements and caused great sorrow to the world.

But let's not condemn the saints of both groups. They deserve to be applauded for their efforts to help human kind. Anyone regardless of the group, religion or nationality, should be applauded and not grouped along with the assholes that seem to be running the show right now.

 

[Dr Rock]

You are from England so you know your history of how the English language came to be. It is all about which group of people that brought the word to England as to which suffix is on the end. I suspect that Christian is originally Latin and ist is Germann. I am guessing I don't know.

the -ist suffix represented a characteristic and relates to an individual, so it describes an adherent or advocate. -ian, though, was applied in terms of belonging to or resembling, and thus had no particular individual connotation. both are latin in origin, and they're essentially interchangeable in modern english if you're talking about people. the main reason nobody's bothered to use christist is because christian is just easier to say.

 

[Freddie53]

First, Dr. Rock thanks for that lesson no the English language. I wil try to keep it in my head.

Several psots ago in I think this thread you, Dr. Rock, commented on your refusal to sing hymns in school. My last few years I taught elementary music. WE learned al the Christmas hymmns and the ssecualr songs. Whne fifteh graders were studying the Civl War we learned songs that were sun on both sies of hat war. Always I explained we we learned ABOUT the songs. They were on CD and has a children's choir singing. All the students has to remain respectfu to the class while the songs were sung.

I made it clear that if we sang a song about an issue such as war, reliigno adn such that they as a person felt uncomfortable singing were to imle jsut quietly sit there.

People should be educated about history. But in music, I only wantged them to be recognized the songs of difrrernt periods. They didn't have to sing words that they had learned at home or church were disrespectful for them to sing.

Never once had a problem. Some of the black children even sang "Dixie". Though I only played it one tme in each class period for three weeks. I figured that by then the children had heard it.

We also learned all the Civil Rights Songs during Black History month. I worked with the librarian in joint lessons And we always listened to Dr. King's I have a dream" speak. No iyt wasn't music, but it was very rhymmic. And I encouraged expressive reading.

Folks it is about BALANCE. We teach the past as close to the truth as we possibly can. Anytime cultural, religion or anyhrting is taught to one view it is propaganda.

 

[D_Herin_Ghan]

First, Dr. Rock thanks for that lesson no the English language. I wil try to keep it in my head.

Several psots ago in I think this thread you, Dr. Rock, commented on your refusal to sing hymns in school. My last few years I taught elementary music. WE learned al the Christmas hymmns and the ssecualr songs. Whne fifteh graders were studying the Civl War we learned songs that were sun on both sies of hat war. Always I explained we we learned ABOUT the songs. They were on CD and has a children's choir singing. All the students has to remain respectfu to the class while the songs were sung.

I made it clear that if we sang a song about an issue such as war, reliigno adn such that they as a person felt uncomfortable singing were to imle jsut quietly sit there.

People should be educated about history. But in music, I only wantged them to be recognized the songs of difrrernt periods. They didn't have to sing words that they had learned at home or church were disrespectful for them to sing.

Never once had a problem. Some of the black children even sang "Dixie". Though I only played it one tme in each class period for three weeks. I figured that by then the children had heard it.

We also learned all the Civil Rights Songs during Black History month. I worked with the librarian in joint lessons And we always listened to Dr. King's I have a dream" speak. No iyt wasn't music, but it was very rhymmic. And I encouraged expressive reading.

Folks it is about BALANCE. We teach the past as close to the truth as we possibly can. Anytime cultural, religion or anyhrting is taught to one view it is propaganda.

Agree with that to an extent. I do not think it would be a good idea to teach children songs of martyrs and the like (hezbollah hymns etc.) You can achive balance without overstepping the bounaries. I never thought it was a good idea for teachers to put on 9/11 footage in the classrooms for young children, which many teachers from elementary school to middle school did. I didn't like it for two main reasons:

1) The horror of the act itself

2) Children grow up with a warped sense of hatred (unequivocated hatred towards arabs) at a time of development.

The thing is, that generation of children (the 9/11 kids) is now reaching the age of maturity.

I pose this question, do we expose children to violence on both sides of war (US/Terrorists) for the sake of balance? Especially since we do not know how this 9/11 generation will grow up?

 

[madame_zora]

I'd be happy enough if we exposed adults to both sides of the violence.

 

[B_Stronzo]

Ugh .. "9/11 generation"??

I don't think so. Wonder what the Iraqis of similar age will deem the current comparable generation:

"American annihiliation generation"??

 

[Dr Rock]

don't worry, the way things are going the "9/11 generation" will become the "third world war generation" long before the few survivors reach adulthood

 

[Freddie53]

Agree with that to an extent. I do not think it would be a good idea to teach children songs of martyrs and the like (hezbollah hymns etc.) You can achive balance without overstepping the bounaries. I never thought it was a good idea for teachers to put on 9/11 footage in the classrooms for young children, which many teachers from elementary school to middle school did. I didn't like it for two main reasons:

1) The horror of the act itself

2) Children grow up with a warped sense of hatred (unequivocated hatred towards arabs) at a time of development.

The thing is, that generation of children (the 9/11 kids) is now reaching the age of maturity.

I pose this question, do we expose children to violence on both sides of war (US/Terrorists) for the sake of balance? Especially since we do not know how this 9/11 generation will grow up?

First, as horrific as the site of those planes flying into the towers in New York City, the fiction violence our children see everyday is much more graffic. I wouldn't sweat our upper elementary and middle school students seeing hta footage.

And about balance, I was talking about history and songs of OUR nation. That is why history is so important. In looking back we can see more clearly the past which hopefully will help us with the present and then the future.

It would be questionable to say the last, to learn the songs of an enemy state. Though hearing traditoinal Arab and Muslim songs in class once so the students recognize them is not necessarily bad. It helps to know your enemy as well as your friends.

We tea;ch about Hitler, tough I haven't heard anyone lately suggesting that the study of Hitler is promoting Nazism.


I am very much agaisnt the writing hsitory the version we like. History is what it is, a record of the past. We should present history in a balance as much as possible. Learning "Dixie" as we learn how the soldiers lives during the Civl war does not in any way suggested that the United States should become pro slavery.

 

[jeremyA]

Its all very true those who don't learn from their history are destined to relive all their old mistakes,as for clalling muslims your enemy surely they are only your enemy because the 50 or so years of trying to bully the world into whatever shape america wnted it to be is finaly coming home.

 

[D_Herin_Ghan]

Its all very true those who don't learn from their history are destined to relive all their old mistakes,as for clalling muslims your enemy surely they are only your enemy because the 50 or so years of trying to bully the world into whatever shape america wnted it to be is finaly coming home.

I suggest reading a history textbook mate. Study Wahabbism.

 

[Freddie53]

I suggest reading a history textbook mate. Study Wahabbism.

I am glad you are proud to be a part of Uncle Sam's Arym. But aren't you fighting for democracy? I hope so. We want that for the Iraqi peole. We want it for ourselves.

You see it is possible to suport the troops 100 % and at the same time diagree with the present administration. It is a testomony of the greatness of this nation that I can disagre and not be taken in the middle of the night and put away.

If that were happening, then all that you are fighting for would be totally lost. So be thankful you live in a nation where the citizens can question openly a war policy even during the time of war.

When my former students were in Iraq, I sent the e-mails. I love them. There is no way I would ever turn my back on them. But I don't think we had a reason to go in there anymore thant North Korea and a hots of other nations as well.

This is my country. No matter what policies our nation puts forth, I will salute the flag, honor our soldiers. Those things aren't political. Policies are. There is a vast difference. I hope you will learn that and a host of other people on both sides of the issue as well. Honor highly our traditions and the generations of Americans that have lived and died. And agree to discuss and agree and disagree on what polcies we should follow.

It is always a comfort to lambast Bush because I personaly think he is a fraud and the secret police not come knocking at my door. That means we stilll have some freedoms for sure.

 

[JustAsking]

You see it is possible to suport the troops 100 % and at the same time diagree with the present administration. It is a testomony of the greatness of this nation that I can disagre and not be taken in the middle of the night and put away.

...

It is always a comfort to lambast Bush because I personaly think he is a fraud and the secret police not come knocking at my door. That means we stilll have some freedoms for sure.

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from the government.
- Thomas Paine

"A President is impeachable if he attempts to subvert the Constitution".
-- President James Madison

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither."
- Ben Franklin

"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."
- Samuel Adams

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
- Edmund Burke

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it."
- President Abraham Lincoln

"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce and brave man, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
- 'Mark Twain'

"Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President."
- President Theodore Roosevelt

"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly as necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."
- President Theodore Roosevelt, 1912

"I love America more than any other country in this world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually."
- James Baldwin, Notes of a Native Son

"So long as we have enough people in this country willing to fight for their rights, we'll be called a democracy."
- Roger Baldwin

"Disobedience, in the eyes of any one who has read history, is man's original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion."
- Oscar Wilde

"Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it."
- George Bernard Shaw

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort, and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."
- Dr. Martin Luther King

"Throughout history, it has been the inaction of those who could have acted; the indifference of those who should have known better; the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most; that has made it possible for evil to triumph."
- Haile Selassie

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."
- Reverend Martin Luther King Jr.

I rest my case.

JustAsking

 

[Freddie53]

I rest my case.

JustAsking

I'd say you did a damn good job.

 

[madame_zora]

JustAsking, that's quite some case, no wonder I miss you so much!

I'm so tired of being called unpatriotic for questioning my bad government. Every patriot worth his weight in shit in our country has done that very thing, the complacent are lower than whale shit, and that's at the bottom of the ocean. All we have is our voices, through our votes and our letter writing. If we don't use it, then the corrupt will inevitably rise to the top.

 

[SurferGirlCA]

... You see it is possible to suport the troops 100 % and at the same time diagree with the present administration. It is a testomony of the greatness of this nation that I can disagre and not be taken in the middle of the night and put away...

Not yet any way. :tongue:

 

[madame_zora]

Surfergirl, should Freddie and I pack a bedroll for you too in case we all get carted away?

 

[SurferGirlCA]

Forget bedrolls! Both my parents are foreign-born, so we can choose between South America and Europe if/when the goosestepping begins, MZ. :smile:

 

[madame_zora]

Fucking sweet! I'm partial to the south of Spain, what do you think? They recently legalised gay marriage and the people are as laid back as anywhere I've seen (except Mexico!)

This about it- plenty of museums, and siestas!

 

[SurferGirlCA]

Mmmmmm, Sevilla is amazing... as is the Algarve in Portugal. And yes, siestas are highly underrated!

 

[DC_DEEP]

I like how this thread has migrated. Not really hijacked, but migrated from christianity (and its alleged fall) to current US politics (and its patent decline.)

Back on topic, and reference a phrase a few posts back, the 3 "big religions", Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, all have their fanatics who pervert the religion to their own devices. Sadly, those fanatics are the ones who get the most press coverage, and those of another faith get the wrong idea. Osama may make some claims, but he is no more a devout Muslim than is Phred Felps a devout Christian. Anyone who wages war or terrorism in the name of religion IS NOT following his proclaimed faith. All three of those religions, at their core, teach peace and charity above almost all else. The faithful are FORBIDDEN to take innocent life or harm children. The holy books and other teachings in all 3 have some violent references, but those are inevitably taken out of context and used for evil purposes.

That being said, it does not surprise me that so many other countries have such a dim view of our imperialistic government. I do not deny that many countries east of the Urals have a dismal record of human rights, but history shows that if a government gets oppressive enough, revolution and overthrow WILL follow. It is not the manifest destiny of the US to spread democracy throughout the world. The people will accept what they are willing to accept; when it gets to be too much, some patriots will die, but they will eventually change the regime.

Zora, don't worry, hon. The SS will steal me away in the night long before they come for you, so I'll keep the cell warm for you. See you in Guantanamo.