The five most significant political events in your lifetime.

[B_RedDude]

So are we reduced to pigeonholing a president's legacy to a few isolated incidents and escalate them to heights that overshadow his entire stint in office

You might consider the impact of those "isolated incidents". Great he was not.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

You might consider the impact of those "isolated incidents". Great he was not.

I have... and nothing has changed.
Let's start with one example. NAFTA. Instead of trying to tell me to consider the impact and play a guessing game as to what you found to be a problem with it, why don't you tell us why you have a problem with its passing and how Clinton is responsible for any individual for abusing the system and exploiting whatever loophole this legislation left open? On top of that, tie all of that together and explain how anyone else is supposed to use any (or all) of this to discredit his presidency or perceived "liberalism"?

I may be able to research and come up with a worthy counterargument, but one thing I don't bring to a debate is a crystal ball. Provide specifics.

 

[B_RedDude]

Crystal balls are for looking into the future, not the past.

Anyway, this really isn't a thread about the merits or lack thereof of Clinton's presidency.

I have... and nothing has changed.
Let's start with one example. NAFTA. Instead of trying to tell me to consider the impact and play a guessing game as to what you found to be a problem with it, why don't you tell us why you have a problem with its passing and how Clinton is responsible for any individual for abusing the system and exploiting whatever loophole this legislation left open? On top of that, tie all of that together and explain how anyone else is supposed to use any (or all) of this to discredit his presidency or perceived "liberalism"?

I may be able to research and come up with a worthy counterargument, but one thing I don't bring to a debate is a crystal ball. Provide specifics.

 

[B_RedDude]

Then there's the obvious stuff in regards to the economy and civil rights, but I don't want to bore anyone who is in the mood to rip someone's character apart with historical facts.

Civil rights? You mean like signing the Defense of Marriage Act and going along with DADT?

The economy? Clinton was very lucky to be president during a tech explosion.

The significant thing about Clinton was that he was third in a line of four Republican presidents, not to mention that if it weren't for his shenanigans the 2000 election might not have been so close and the final outcome might have been different. And we all know what a difference that would have made.

I shall close here. I just could not resist responding to a post referring to Bill Clinton as a "great" president.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Crystal balls are for looking into the future, not the past.

A crystal ball is believed by some people to aid in the performance of clairvoyance. The term clairvoyance is used to refer to the ability to gain information about an object, person, location or physical event through means other than the known human senses. There is no mention or precise specification made that suggests that a crystal ball is used just for "looking into the future" if we utilize the actual definitions of such terms. That means it can be used to research the past if need to. Alas, I can understand how people will perceive the term as only being predictors of the future as given by our current societal projections of what a crystal ball is supposed to represent.

Anyway, this really isn't a thread about the merits or lack thereof of Clinton's presidency. As I said, I just could not resist responding to a post that referred to Clinton as a "great" president.

We know you couldn't resist, but he was great in more ways than one to many people including myself. I don't expect "great presidents" to be perfect. They're all gonna fuck up somewhere (hello, Monica!!). But considering a term of Bush II, or the prospect of a Bob Dole or Dan Quayle presidency that could have been in place anywhere from 1992-2001 if Clinton wasn't elected (going solely on the ideologies and/or voting records of each substitute) I think NAFTA or the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act is the least of our worries.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Civil rights? You mean like signing the Defense of Marriage Act and going along with DADT?

Before DADT, there was a complete ban. It didn't matter if you didn't mention you were gay. If someone suspected that you were, you could be eliminated. Period. Clinton tried to do a complete 180 on the ban of gays in the military, and anyone with a political conscious knew that this wasn't going to happen. DADT was a compromise for his actions, and it is constantly downplayed by hyper-liberals who think that their presidents have to be as extreme as right-winged ones in order to get anything done. However, if you put all the pieces of history together, without Clinton putting a necessary dent in the armor Obama wouldn't have been able to push for a full repeal and get it done.

Recognize the steps necessary to get to where we are now. They all have relevance, despite if we like every action or not.

The economy? Clinton was very lucky to be president during a tech explosion.

Not necessarily. As someone who benefitted from that tech explosion in many ways, I can tell you that many of his actions to balance the budget had nothing to do with the explosion of the internet. That's just an easy symbol to use (in conjunction with one's preconceived ideologies) to write off all of the actions of a president.

Let's just say this. We're LUCKY that the internet has blown up the way that it has, and it wasn't till the last few years of Clinton's presidency that the internet truly blew up. That and additional technological advances that had nothing to do with Clinton to ensure that the web would be a viable, societal and business tool.

The significant thing about Clinton was that he was third in a line of four Republican presidents, not to mention that if it weren't for his shenanigans the 2000 election might not have been so close and the final outcome might have been different.

No revision-level preaching here, please? Not a single Republican would consider Clinton to be a "republican" or "conservative" president, especially with the current climate of politics in our country. Also, Clinton left office with the highest end-of-office approval rating of any U.S. president since World War II. If we can blame anything on Gore for his inability to win the presidency on 2000 (beyond the obvious) is the fact that he didn't embrace more of Clinton's ideologies or tried so desperately to distance himself from him upon request by the very opposition that wanted him to lose.

 

[Drifterwood]

2) The British having to exit with the Expiry of the 99 year lease of Hong Kong
MAYbe the beginning of Chinas Rise & Britains demise?

I would see WW1 as the beginning of a decline in global status for the UK (demise a bit strong) and a certain little tree planted by Deng as the beginning of China's rise. HK, well, that has been some icing on the cake for China. Next stop Taiwan

 

[rbkwp]

allowing myself a 6th because i surely can & its not illegal ha
Of importance to me
Brain Lapse omitted it obviously.

6) the END of Apatheid, and Mandelas Freedom
(with the White South African leader of the time, equally to Thank for his bold moves)
Some SA persons may see it as otherwise, but NZ did support this actively.

 

[b.c.]

Before DADT, there was a complete ban. It didn't matter if you didn't mention you were gay. If someone suspected that you were, you could be eliminated. Period. Clinton tried to do a complete 180 on the ban of gays in the military, and anyone with a political conscious knew that this wasn't going to happen. DADT was a compromise for his actions, and it is constantly downplayed by hyper-liberals who think that their presidents have to be as extreme as right-winged ones in order to get anything done. However, if you put all the pieces of history together, without Clinton putting a necessary dent in the armor Obama wouldn't have been able to push for a full repeal and get it done.

Recognize the steps necessary to get to where we are now. They all have relevance, despite if we like every action or not.



Not necessarily. As someone who benefitted from that tech explosion in many ways, I can tell you that many of his actions to balance the budget had nothing to do with the explosion of the internet. That's just an easy symbol to use (in conjunction with one's preconceived ideologies) to write off all of the actions of a president.

Let's just say this. We're LUCKY that the internet has blown up the way that it has, and it wasn't till the last few years of Clinton's presidency that the internet truly blew up. That and additional technological advances that had nothing to do with Clinton to ensure that the web would be a viable, societal and business tool.



No revision-level preaching here, please? Not a single Republican would consider Clinton to be a "republican" or "conservative" president, especially with the current climate of politics in our country. Also, Clinton left office with the highest end-of-office approval rating of any U.S. president since World War II. If we can blame anything on Gore for his inability to win the presidency on 2000 (beyond the obvious) is the fact that he didn't embrace more of Clinton's ideologies or tried so desperately to distance himself from him upon request by the very opposition that wanted him to lose.

VBoy, there are always those for whom a president, though left leaning, isn't "liberal" enough to suit them. They're entitled to their opinion. I think they fail to grasp the political realities of the world in which we live.

I also think the greatness of a person can be measured in the way he or she successfully bridges the gap between either extremes and still achieve much of what he/she sets out to accomplish.

Polls and statistical facts support my assertion that Clinton was among our greatest presidents, post WWII especially, and many (from both sides of the political spectrum) hold him in high regard, in spite of opinions to the contrary expressed herein.

 

[osprey1987]

3. The end of communism. Perhaps the US' finest achievement, winning the Cold War.

Please prove how the mighty Reagan and Bush defeated communism.

 

[Drifterwood]

Please prove how the mighty Reagan and Bush defeated communism.

Prove?

You ever lose a game of poker because you couldn't afford the stakes?

Russia won WWII in Europe, but then the stakes were different.

 

[vince]

Please prove how the mighty Reagan and Bush defeated communism.

Please show where he claimed they did.

The cold war lasted 50 years. No one or two individuals "won" it.

 

[D_DickBWreth]

1. Realizing I have no political power
2-5. Bill Hicks

 

[Zayne]

1. The Fall of America

 

[joshua_ste]

This seems pretty significant, but the story's not getting very much play:

China to lead world economy


This is, technically, an economic event, but economic events (like Paul Ryan's budget or a Wall Street meltdown) or a social event (like Middle Eastern wars) ARE politics. Everythings become political.

 

[Zayne]

China has intelligent leaders. We have leaders who are willing to sellout for power and who look good on TV. Fast-forward 30 years after China is a third world country, and you have the most dramatic economic rise in history.

America, Ricki Lake Nation.