The Gay Delusion

[piratebulldog]

it's rather childish to mock a man just for not wanting to be seen naked. why the hell is it such a big deal to some of you that they want to stay within their comfort zone?
that you're paying enough attention to them to even notice the 'towel dance' makes me think their discomfort is justified.
honestly, you think you're better than them just because you flop it out and thy don't? childish!

Absolutely in agreement with this statement. Though I am comfortable getting undressed completely, showering and all at the gym, I fully understand where some people are not. It does not imply anything about their sexuality. There have been numerous comments made in similar threads about 'the towel dance' that seems to justify the fact that they do feel ogled in that situation and are reacting to it.

At first I did not understand the OP but now it makes a bit more sense and I am seeing that particular perspective. Yes, it is a bit naive and rigid but it offers a point of view.

Thanks for putting it out there for discussion and insight from others.

 

[B_henry miller]

You kind of hit on the answer you're searching for: Apparently, a lot of gay and bisexual guys have not yet accepted that it's okay to be gay or bisexual. Therefore, they tell themselves they are "straight" all the while taking part in gay and bisexual behavior.

The second issue is something I addressed in a thread I started a while ago called "Straight men don't have sexual relations with other men." The thread quickly became a heated (sometimes even hateful) discussion, so I unsubscribed from it and don't participate in it anymore. Anyway, like you mention, sadly, it seems that some guys seem to believe that straight guys just do not exist at all. To hear them tell it, all straight guys are just bisexual or gay guys in the closet.

All that it boils down to is that there are a lot of guys who have not yet made peace with their sexuality. A lot of these guys are on this forum.

This is probably going to be somewhat inflammatory but would someone please explain all of the strange behavior by many of the homosexual members here (not that they are homosexual, that's a given)? What I'm referencing is the guys who say that they are straight and then looking for jerk off buddies or someone to blow and still maintaining that they are straight. WTF? There's nothing wrong with being gay, whatever floats your boat man, but what purpose does it serve to lie to yourself by saying that isn't homosexual behavior? Another thing that I find strange is the # of gay members implying that a lot of straight men are closeted gays or have gay tendencies. An example of which would be nudity in the locker room situations. I've been in a locker room where there was nudity, I didn't stare at the nude men and I didn't get naked in front of the other men. Reading some threads on here, it sounds like some people think that men who don't get naked are really just embarrassed about being gay, rather than not wanting to be seen naked out of modesty or (less understandably) not wanting to be ogled by gay guys. Another issue is the gay percentage system on LPSG but that's another matter entirely. . .

 

[B_henry miller]

thickseven, i think as several members have already mentioned your definition of straight and gay is pretty rigged and that's fine.

"His" definition isn't rigid. "His" definition isn't even "his" definition. He is going by the standard defintion that is used in larger society. LPSG and other contexts stretch and redefine things as they see fit. But in larger society, "straight" guys are not viewed as entirely "straight" if they have sexual activity with other men. That's just the way it is. Don't blame him. Don't blame me. Don't shoot the messenger. So find the messenger and give him a piece of your mind if you have a problem with it.

 

[B_Hung Jon]

"His" definition isn't rigid. "His" definition isn't even "his" definition. He is going by the standard defintion that is used in larger society. LPSG and other contexts stretch and redefine things as they see fit. But in larger society, "straight" guys are not viewed as entirely "straight" if they have sexual activity with other men. That's just the way it is. Don't blame him. Don't blame me. Don't shoot the messenger. So find the messenger and give him a piece of your mind if you have a problem with it.

HenryMiller, I think this is exactly the problem. The majority of guys who identify themselves as "straight" don't go around telling everyone that they have on occasion had sex with other guys. The problem occurs when they are found out, like some politicians in the last few years. To me this is the ultimate sadness about society's views about sexuality. For me anyway the definitions are too rigid so that when guys explore their sexuality, they are immediately tagged with some label. No wonder straight guys cling to these fragile labels. Without them, I imagine their lives would be even more difficult and painful. Although I prefer that guys be honest about themselves, I can understand why they're (we're) not. :frown1:

 

[D_Jess_Kilme]

HenryMiller, I think this is exactly the problem. The majority of guys who identify themselves as "straight" don't go around telling everyone that they have on occasion had sex with other guys. The problem occurs when they are found out, like some politicians in the last few years. To me this is the ultimate sadness about society's views about sexuality. For me anyway the definitions are too rigid so that when guys explore their sexuality, they are immediately tagged with some label. No wonder straight guys cling to these fragile labels. Without them, I imagine their lives would be even more difficult and painful. Although I prefer that guys be honest about themselves, I can understand why they're (we're) not. :frown1:

Well said bud.

The only point that I would add is that the three categories of straight, bi and gay is not adequate to accommodate the full spectrum of male sexuality.

There is clearly a large population of men who engage in same gender sexual activity who does not self identify as any of the above.

We should respect that.

 

[B_henry miller]

This is two different issues:

1. Guys who come to this site and talk about their (on-going) experiences with men, and yet claim to be "straight."

2. Guys who have sexual relations with other men but DO NOT talk about them because they want to retain the "straight" identity in larger society.

The thing both issues have in common, obviously, are men who want to claim they are straight despite the fact that they have relations with other men.

Personally, I'd like to see an abolishing of the "labeling system," because I think it's faulty. I do think there are some men out there who only have sexual relations with women; I am pretty sure such men do exist. However, if you look in their background (or even look deeply within their subconscious mind [not sure how we'd do that]) you will probably find some homosexual aspect.

But I am not the one who made this up, and the OP is not the one who made this up. The definition of "straight" is attraction to the opposite gender. It's kind of funny how about half this forum has a breakdown when people talk about mere defitions. The personal attacks that ensue are amazing. lol :biggrin1:

HenryMiller, I think this is exactly the problem. The majority of guys who identify themselves as "straight" don't go around telling everyone that they have on occasion had sex with other guys. The problem occurs when they are found out, like some politicians in the last few years. To me this is the ultimate sadness about society's views about sexuality. For me anyway the definitions are too rigid so that when guys explore their sexuality, they are immediately tagged with some label. No wonder straight guys cling to these fragile labels. Without them, I imagine their lives would be even more difficult and painful. Although I prefer that guys be honest about themselves, I can understand why they're (we're) not. :frown1:

 

[B_Hung Jon]

This is two different issues:

1. Guys who come to this site and talk about their (on-going) experiences with men, and yet claim to be "straight."

2. Guys who have sexual relations with other men but DO NOT talk about them because they want to retain the "straight" identity in larger society.

The thing both issues have in common, obviously, are men who want to claim they are straight despite the fact that they have relations with other men.

Personally, I'd like to see an abolishing of the "labeling system," because I think it's faulty. I do think there are some men out there who only have sexual relations with women; I am pretty sure such men do exist. However, if you look in their background (or even look deeply within their subconscious mind [not sure how we'd do that]) you will probably find some homosexual aspect.

But I am not the one who made this up, and the OP is not the one who made this up. The definition of "straight" is attraction to the opposite gender. It's kind of funny how about half this forum has a breakdown when people talk about mere defitions. The personal attacks that ensue are amazing. lol :biggrin1:

HM, I agree with you completely. I also have tried to stay away from the threads that are more polarizing but have not always been successful. If I even begin to question another guy's sexuality, there will be hell to pay. And that's true for guys who identify as straight as well as gay. There is something so personal and fundamental about sexuality that men (usually) are enable to discuss it in some rational and calm way. We seem to take even the most simple comment as challenging to our masculinity or our integrity ("you pussy, you wimp", etc). I have had gay guys on this site become furious at me for suggesting that they may have some bi tendencies, as if it would destroy their gay credibility. And of course straight guys are even more defensive in this area, to the point of getting into physical altercations about being called something other than straight. Many of us have seen this in our actual lives. Changing a whole society to reflect a more enlightened view is a huge task. I imagine it will happen over time but certainly not soon enough for me.

 

[B_henry miller]

I think the simple fact is that sexuality is far more complex than we can realize.

For example, lately I am thinking a lot about the following.... It is commonly known that homophobic people are usually not sure about their sexuality; a huge segment of the heterosexual male population IS homophobic; this means a lot of straight guys who are heterosexual are apparently not too secure in that fact. In other words, maybe a lot of straight guys have bisexual tendencies and haven't accepted this yet.

Been reading a book about sexuality. It says it is a new concept to assume an identity based on the gender of the person you have sexual relations with. I wonder what it must've been like to live in a day when a guy could have sex with any gender and he was just a guy, "a man." lol "Sexuality" as we know it didn't come into existence until the 1800s.

 

[thickseven]

HenryMiller, I think this is exactly the problem. The majority of guys who identify themselves as "straight" don't go around telling everyone that they have on occasion had sex with other guys. The problem occurs when they are found out, like some politicians in the last few years. To me this is the ultimate sadness about society's views about sexuality. For me anyway the definitions are too rigid so that when guys explore their sexuality, they are immediately tagged with some label. No wonder straight guys cling to these fragile labels. Without them, I imagine their lives would be even more difficult and painful. Although I prefer that guys be honest about themselves, I can understand why they're (we're) not. :frown1:

This is exactly what I was referencing. Jon here arbitrarily decided to group together straight men as only being straight until "The problem occurs when they are found out" and as those who worry about "fragile labels" because of how "difficult and painful" it would be to be outed as gay. As Henry mentioned the quoted poster seems to think all men are gay "Although I prefer that guys be honest about themselves, I can understand why they're (we're) not." I didn't check but i'm reasonably sure that everyone who responded didn't say they were gay (If "we" is meant to mean the gay community then obviously that's another matter). I think the poster above is caught up with the labels he mentions, if your worried about being called gay after carrying out gay behavior (in the imaginary scenario where your "immediately tagged" as such) then I think you as an individual (not the poster, just random anecdote guy) need to reconsider your values (i.e. be true to your self).

Something I take issue with in the above post is "The majority of guys who identify themselves as "straight" don't go around telling everyone that they have on occasion had sex with other guys." I understand there's been some displeasure with the labels we are assigned in reference to sexuality but this is ridiculous, He's implying that the majority of straight men have had sex with other men. A debate (I was looking for insight but apparently it's become a debate) on the semantics of what to call your sexuality is fine, but I think this borders on absurd. It's a given that men differ on the degree of homosexual tendencies they have, that was never what I was arguing about, but to say that your actually having sex,jerking off with, or blowing other men and calling yourself straight is oxymoronic to me. I know people define themselves as pansexual bisexual,gay and other labels but the point I've been trying to make is that the use of labels when you perform sexual acts that contradict your predominant view of yourself with no acknowledgement of it as being contradictory is just all sortsa "wth?"

If the labels seem too "rigid" then
perhaps what many here have failed to consider is that they need to stop bending them, words have meaning that can change over time but "Straight" obviously=hetero, as I mentioned much earlier I think it'd be much more accurate to qualify things by saying bi-curious (or just plain curious) it leaves things open to your own interpretation.

 

[dolfette]

'bi' is a pretty darn flexible label.
everything from looking & wanking to full on sex.

 

[B_henry miller]

That's exactly what I've been trying to say all along. They say the categories are too rigid -- and yet they want to hang on to the categories. If the categories are too rigid -- then get rid of them altogether! Don't identify as gay or straight or bisexual, then.

But if you are going to admit that the labels are too rigid, then you have to admit that if you choose one of those labels then your behavior must conform to the rigid label.

People want to have their cake and eat it too.

And, by the way, here's a little dose of reality: most guys on this forum are NOT 100% straight! There are indeed some, and I love them. They're awesome. But I'd wager that maybe as little as 1% to 5% of the guys on this forum are genuinely, solely heterosexual. Any forum with "penis" in the title that is not a medical forum is going to be largely gay and bisexual males.

If the labels seem too "rigid" then
perhaps what many here have failed to consider is that they need to stop bending them

 

[B_henry miller]

'bi' is a pretty darn flexible label.
everything from looking & wanking to full on sex.

But at least it admits to sexual activity with both genders. That's far more honest than having sexual activity with both genders and yet claiming to be 'straight."

 

[B_Hung Jon]

That's exactly what I've been trying to say all along. They say the categories are too rigid -- and yet they want to hang on to the categories. If the categories are too rigid -- then get rid of them altogether! Don't identify as gay or straight or bisexual, then.

But if you are going to admit that the labels are too rigid, then you have to admit that if you choose one of those labels then your behavior must conform to the rigid label.

People want to have their cake and eat it too.

And, by the way, here's a little dose of reality: most guys on this forum are NOT 100% straight! There are indeed some, and I love them. They're awesome. But I'd wager that maybe as little as 1% to 5% of the guys on this forum are genuinely, solely heterosexual. Any forum with "penis" in the title that is not a medical forum is going to be largely gay and bisexual males.

This is what I have been saying all along. Maybe I haven't explain it too clearly on this thread and I apologize for that. I think that the very fact you challenge heterosexual guys in this way is something that is difficult for them to deal with. In fact as I've said on many other threads, some new heterosexual guys show up on this site and maybe expect to find a lot of women who are interested in big dicks. When they find out this isn't the case, they seem to attempt to fight or disagree with others about any topic relating to their own sexuality. I have started a few threads about this but eventually let them go because some heterosexual guys challenge my every word. I could name names but won't. It doesn't mean I wouldn't like to though! :biggrin1:

 

[Ewan]

Three pages devoted to - nothing.

 

[595965]

Three pages devoted to - nothing.

You must be the happiest man in the world!

 

[D_Jess_Kilme]

Guys

I respect where you come from but you must consider that male sexuality, and our understanding of it, has moved on/is moving on, beyond the stereotypes which have shaped our understanding over the past number of decades.

Your thinking is definitely valid when viewed against the definitions of the past. However, give the rapid escalation of men's self awareness, brought about in no small part by te information revolution of the past two or three decades (including by sites like this which now allows men the opportunity to test their thinking and perceptions in a safe environment), it is reasonable that men will start to challenge conventional wisdom.

While you are not expected to buy into every new nuance in this sexual revolution, we should be open t o it.

I maintain that the three existing categories of male sexual categorisation of gay, bi and straight are no longer valid.

There is a revolution underway in the way that men see their own sexuality. Lets not fight it. By embracing it we will all hasten the day that society becomes more tolerant of what falls outside the "norm".

Look at this article, while not evidence, it points the way to that revolution.


http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/mostly-straight/

best regards

 

[B_jeepguy2]

This whole concept of a person being a "heterosexual" or a "homosexual" is a fairly recent construct. In fact these terms did not even exist prior to the Victorian Era. Humans have always been inherently bisexual with varying degrees of sexual attraction towards one sex or another.

 

[D_Alec_Baldtwins]

A lot of people, including the OP, seem to be uncomfortable with, or closed to the idea that some people simply have sex for hedonistic reasons. I call myself a hedonistic bisexual. You can call me anything you want; I don't give a fuck.

I perform sexual acts with men on occasion, and have since I was a teenager. I do it because it turns me on and because it feels good. But I don't, nor have I ever had even the slightest emotional connection with, or feeling of intimacy towards a man. I hate kissing a guy; I hate even the thought of it. The couple of times I tried it, it almost made me gag.

Love, intimacy, and a strong emotional connection is something I only have with women. When I'm in a relationship, the woman is my only sexual outlet, and I enjoy it immensely; it's intimate and fulfilling in a way that sex with a guy could never be. But when I'm not in a relationship, I'll stray over to the other side for sex once in a while, and it's horny and raw and a turn-on and gives me pleasure in an entirely different, but entirely hedonistic way. I guess to people of narrow mind, that makes me gay. And like I said, I don't give a fuck.

Human beings don't fit into neat little boxes, and that's a problem for many simple-minded individuals. Human sexuality is more complex than "straight", "bi", or "gay". Sexuality exists on a continuum, with "straight" and "gay" on opposite sides of that axis. I'm sure there are plenty of people who exist at those opposite extremes, but it's a good bet that many, many, people are somewhere in the middle, and it's all cool. Or at least it should be.

 

[Smaccoms]

haha, I've made so many posts discussing sexuality and it's many intricacies, and the OP here seems to delve into all of that. I don't really feel like re-typing all of it, and I need to get some research done. I'll probably find my previous postings which explain his questions here later.

 

[thickseven]

A lot of people, including the OP, seem to be uncomfortable with, or closed to the idea that some people simply have sex for hedonistic reasons. I call myself a hedonistic bisexual. You can call me anything you want; I don't give a fuck.

I perform sexual acts with men on occasion, and have since I was a teenager. I do it because it turns me on and because it feels good. But I don't, nor have I ever had even the slightest emotional connection with, or feeling of intimacy towards a man. I hate kissing a guy; I hate even the thought of it. The couple of times I tried it, it almost made me gag.

Love, intimacy, and a strong emotional connection is something I only have with women. When I'm in a relationship, the woman is my only sexual outlet, and I enjoy it immensely; it's intimate and fulfilling in a way that sex with a guy could never be. But when I'm not in a relationship, I'll stray over to the other side for sex once in a while, and it's horny and raw and a turn-on and gives me pleasure in an entirely different, but entirely hedonistic way. I guess to people of narrow mind, that makes me gay. And like I said, I don't give a fuck.

Human beings don't fit into neat little boxes, and that's a problem for many simple-minded individuals. Human sexuality is more complex than "straight", "bi", or "gay". Sexuality exists on a continuum, with "straight" and "gay" on opposite sides of that axis. I'm sure there are plenty of people who exist at those opposite extremes, but it's a good bet that many, many, people are somewhere in the middle, and it's all cool. Or at least it should be.

You know up until this point every other poster has been very amicable and kept personal attacks to a minimum, I at no point said that I was uncomfortable with people's reasons for having sex, and I resent being called "simple-minded" and "narrow-minded" in case you didn't notice dude, I actually advocated for the spectrum idea in my earlier posts. So don't start acting like i'm some kinda bigot or something because whenever the phrase "I don't give a fuck" is used, obviously you give a fuck (unless your ordering pizza or something, lol)and your I think its clear your projecting somekind of anger on me for something you take issue with. I'm not trying to judge or attack anybody so relax man.