The "gay panic" defense
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check your atlas, boss (the UK is the other side of the big blue thing from florida). you'll notice there's a sea between the UK and europe.
[post=320968]Quoted post[/post]
[/b][/quote]Dr/ Rock,
This little mistake is not Jon TX's fault. Almost every island is considered part of some continent. So the British Isles is taught in American schools as being a part of Europe.
Now I know that most British do NOT consider themselves a part of Europe. And I understand why. To most Brituish people's thinking, every so often the UK has to send an army over to Europe to get things striaghtened out from the mess that has beem made. In the 20th century they needed help from their cousins over in North America, the Canadians and the Yankees. But historiically, that is the way it looks for the past few centuries from a point of view of many in the UK.
Of course the Germans and French have a different point of view.
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well if we're talking in terms of continental plates, that's perfectly accurate - but as far as I'm aware, tectonics has relatively little to do with nationhood.
[post=322030]Quoted post[/post]
[/b][/quote]"Tectonnics has relatively little to do with nationhood."
True
But Europe is not a nation. The continental Europe has many nations. And the British Isles has two independent nations.
Perhaps the proper phrase should be that the UK is not a part of continental Europe. And the eastern border of Europe is not an ocean, but a mountain range.
Ah, Madame, you DO understand the point of my post. I had a feeling you would have to put in your 3-dollar-bill's worth on this one.
<g> Go easy on the white males, though. Although I don't also have the hetero quality, I am in the wonderland of Affirmative Action, and a white male without a PhD has a really difficult time finding work here in the nation's capital.
P. S. If you truly want a better undstanding of America's Faithful Christians, you should visit Betty Bowers
[post=320577]Quoted post[/post]
[/b][/quote]DC Deep,
I find it appalling that someone has placed such a low value on the lives of gay members of our society. There is never any excuse, short of rape to use the panic defense. But I suppose it is one of the last frontiers. Irrational fear and resentment of "otherness" runs deep. There are people who hug their purses when they see an adolescent black or hispanic male coming in view. The panic defense hes been used in some of those instances as well I can imagine.
Though I am a heterosexual female, I am surrounded by lesbians in my field and have been approached on a regular basis. Though I dont have that orientation, part of me is flattered. I look at it the same way I would a guy that expressed interest even if my feelings were not mutual. People are going to try . A simple no thank you should be all that is necessary. I have on occassion encountered the female troglodyte who has felt that I was just not allowing myself to acknowledge my inner lesbian. To that I have had to escalate just as I would a too persistant male who did not understand my clear signal to cease and desist .
As for the Nation's capital being a place where affirmative action reigns supreme I think you have to look at it on a case by case basis. At my institution where higher education is a given, there are all sorts of intangibles that go into decisions of reward or promotion. If you came to my building specifically, you might think that because the director of my building is a jewish american male that would be the reason for having all individuals in power of the same persuasion. When I look at it objectively however I see some really talented individuals who are getting a chance to shine. Does that make everyone happy? No. Will they get over it ? perhaps not. But this is the way it is at this moment in time. Just because I may have more education or experience in some areas does not mean that I can see the overall reasoning why perhaps this person was hired over me.
For years there were people of some of the top "Hater" persuasions who were obscenely over qualified for positions but were not chosen. I have an example very near to me of two colleagues one black and one white. Initially the black person was chosen for his prior management experience. Howevery,he came into this particular position without any contacts or ability to crack the old boy network. The white colleague who also did an exceptional job had a very good attitude about it and continued to do great work. Recently the tables have turn the black colleague was removed from the position because he did not have the people skills to execute the position adequately. The white colleague is now in the position and I am sure will do an excellent job. Some looking on the outside would stomp and scream, I knowing both of these men feel the recent change is justified. The white colleague in addition to being a stellar performer has demonstrated his exceptional people and net working skills very necessary in a position that needs someone that has the savvy to assess the situation, calm the waters and make funders feel comfortable. Now he also is part of the old boy network .But knowing the two men though it may have been a factor it was not the only one. This did not make the other man any less intelligent but he did not have the complete skill set to adequately do his duties.
Naughty
GottaBigOne
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One thing we have to realize is that even though most people are respectful and when making advances are very polite about it, there are always people who aren't so respectful.
My view of gay-bashing changed a bit about a year ago when I was in a porno shop looking for a new DVD. When I entered the back room there was this guy in there who I made eye contact with at first. It was momentary, and I did not smile or keep the eye contact long (I do that with everyone, its a social quirk I have I guess, people usually think I'm just rude) So anyway, I was perusing the titles, not finding anything that looked real appealling when that guy walked passed me and whispered: "Can I suck your dick?" It was barely audible so I said: "Wha?" He repeated and I politely said "No thank you." He said something like "Come on, I'm real good." And again I said "No thank you, I'm not gay." He responded by saying that he knew I wasn't gay and it didn't matter. Well it does matter, I do not desire men, and I do not desire getting head from men, just as I would not desire getting head from a girl I wasn't attracted to. This guy however was not done. A few minutes later when I was looking through titles down an aisle he came up on the opposite side whining "Please, please, please." This was really fucking aggravating and bordered on sexual harrassment, I finally told him that it wasn't gonna happen in a stern voice and picked up a random dvd and went to the counter to buy it and get out of there. Thats when I could understand how some people put in that situation would beat the fucker up, but noit because he was gay and was just making a polite move on them but because they were being sexually harrassed. Would anybody be against a woman physically attacking a man who was sexually harrassing her(slapping him) if the man was not taking the hint? I myself did not do it, but I realized that maybe its not always gay panic, maybe sometimes, in some extremem cases its justified.
Killing the dude?? Of course not, but rude people sometimes need a little more than a polite no to get the point.
My view of gay-bashing changed a bit about a year ago when I was in a porno shop looking for a new DVD. When I entered the back room there was this guy in there who I made eye contact with at first. It was momentary, and I did not smile or keep the eye contact long (I do that with everyone, its a social quirk I have I guess, people usually think I'm just rude) So anyway, I was perusing the titles, not finding anything that looked real appealling when that guy walked passed me and whispered: "Can I suck your dick?" It was barely audible so I said: "Wha?" He repeated and I politely said "No thank you." He said something like "Come on, I'm real good." And again I said "No thank you, I'm not gay." He responded by saying that he knew I wasn't gay and it didn't matter. Well it does matter, I do not desire men, and I do not desire getting head from men, just as I would not desire getting head from a girl I wasn't attracted to. This guy however was not done. A few minutes later when I was looking through titles down an aisle he came up on the opposite side whining "Please, please, please." This was really fucking aggravating and bordered on sexual harrassment, I finally told him that it wasn't gonna happen in a stern voice and picked up a random dvd and went to the counter to buy it and get out of there. Thats when I could understand how some people put in that situation would beat the fucker up, but noit because he was gay and was just making a polite move on them but because they were being sexually harrassed. Would anybody be against a woman physically attacking a man who was sexually harrassing her(slapping him) if the man was not taking the hint? I myself did not do it, but I realized that maybe its not always gay panic, maybe sometimes, in some extremem cases its justified.
Killing the dude?? Of course not, but rude people sometimes need a little more than a polite no to get the point.
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[post=322389]Quoted post[/post]
[/b][/quote]Jana,
You understand it and state it beautifully and I quote, "PEOPLE manipulate it {religion} into something horrific to be used to DAMAGE each other."
And doing that very thing goes against the tenets of every major religion. No major religion teaches that kind of behavior, yet we find it in every religion. Let's call it what it is: Frauds using a religion for political or some other power over an individual or a group of people.
As far as I am concerned, it is a moral failure that is only topped by murder. It is stealing the lives of someone else. That is grand theft.
To GBO,
There are three reasons for this homophobia.
The first group are not 100 percent straight. They know about their gay tendancies and are fighting it to the end. They are mortified that if enough gay lifestyle is entered into the public life, they will succumb to the advances or to the sheer beauty of someone of the same gender.
The second group don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. They think that gay behavior is when a grown man has sex with a young man or boy. They don't acknowledge gay relationships that happen between two guys or gals who are both past 30. They also equate homosexuality with being nothing but "one night stands." True those happen. But they happen in the staight world as well. There are many homosexual couples who don't fool around on their partner. But this group refuses to acknowledge that. Many of this folks fooled around in their early teens in a cirlce jerk or mutual masturbation or other sexual activity becasue the were curious and horny as hell. So that is what they equalte homosexuality as being. As I said, they don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.
The third group are the fundies. Some have come to really believe what they have been taught and are sincere. But many of the fundie leaders are just milking the people. They want POWER over others. I have dealt with the fundies before on religious situations. Those that lead out against homosexuals publically are are in a crusade are as phony as a three dollar bill. The most vicious attacks I have heard agaisnt gays have come from people who had affairs on their spouses, divorced them, split up families and now are in the church spewing forth hate toward other people who aren't "perfect."
OK. I have judged. Maybe I shoudn't. But those are my sincere beliefs. I can't help what I have seen and observed. And you find this happening all throughout the Bible. Nothing new.
Thew finest people I have ever known where practicing sincere Christians. The worse have according to what I have observed have been frauds going to and ruining the churches.
GottaBigOne
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I would argue that it is impossible not to judge, it is an automatic response to the traits and/or actions of another, we can't control it. We can change the criteria we judge against, but judging itslef is natural. I think that "judge not lest ye be judged yourself" is more of an attack on hypocrisy; not a command not to judge at all, but more of a reminder that none are perfect and should think twice before thinking they are above another.
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steve319
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I would argue that it is impossible not to judge, it is an automatic response to the traits and/or actions of another, we can't control it. We can change the criteria we judge against, but judging itslef is natural. I think that "judge not lest ye be judged yourself" is more of an attack on hypocrisy; not a command not to judge at all, but more of a reminder that none are perfect and should think twice before thinking they are above another.
[post=322611]Quoted post[/post]
[/b][/quote]Thank you, GBO. Again, another example of biblical passages so often quoted and so seldom understood.
Judgement (taking the information provided to you, and basing your decisions on that information) is necessary for human life. The "judge not" passage was (in the KJV) obviously written connotatively to maintain the style of the prose, and to get the most linguistically compact phrase possible. In its context, it could have been more accurately written "Do not judge someone by your standards and throw stones at them, unless you are willing to let others judge you by their standards and throw stones."
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