The Gay Question... Again... Still...

B_Italian1

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That is your take on the situation.

How about he tried sex with men because he hadn't had much success with women and realised how much he preffered it? Even then though he must have had some interest in trying gay sex. I've known a few very straight men who have little success with women but are not interested in men simply because they are straight.

Sorry I just don't buy your logic.

You are straight. You cannot presume what process a man goes through before he comes to terms with the fact that he is gay. Judging by your post history you don't want to understand because you've already made your mind up that they had arrived there by a process of choice.

That's just one incident I recall. As I said, it's very complex and I don't think we'll ever fully understand it. And you're right, a straight man could have no success with women and not bother to try gay sex at all. And you're wrong, I do want to understand, and when I was younger I did think people were born gay, but as I've grown older my belief is that it is a choice. And I'm not out to tell straight people to go gay anymore than I'm trying to tell gay people to go straight.
 

DaveyR

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As I said, it's very complex and I don't think we'll ever fully understand it.

That's something we agree on then.


And you're wrong, I do want to understand,

I'm glad to hear that. Understanding breeds tolerance IMO.

and when I was younger I did think people were born gay, but as I've grown older my belief is that it is a choice. And I'm not out to tell straight people to go gay anymore than I'm trying to tell gay people to go straight.

I haven't the time to relate my full history but I'll summarise as best I can. I dated women and had sex with them from the age of 15. I was even engaged twice. During this time I periodically had sex with guys and felt a compete shit afterwards eventhough it excited me more so than with women. It was expected by everyone I knew that I would get married to a woman and probably have kids. I broke off the 2nd engagement and made the decision to be true to my feelings when I was 23.

You will argue that I made a choice. You are correct I did but I chose the only viable option available to me. The alternative was to lead an unhappy and unfulfilled life based on lies. That would have been unfair to me and to any potential partner.

When you use the word choice there's a difference between accepting the truth about yourself and thinking to yourself " Now will I be straight or shall I follow the gay route or perhaps somewhere in between"?

Yes. I'm guilty of choosing to accept my physical make up. Not once since I was 23 have I regretted that choice.
 

Dal2AR

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I tried dating women from High School up through College. They made great friends...but there was not one thing that attracted me to them. I can remember being fascinated by the male physique from even before puberty. When I finally accepted that I was gay my whole life made sense...from the smells I'm attracted to...the things I like to do, etc. I have no doubt whatsoever that I was born this way...and the doctor friends I have (one who is a shrink) believe the same thing.
Based on the horrible things that people I know have gone through with family...physical violence...being fired from jobs... not 1% of me can believe that it was a "choice" to be that way. Perhaps a few here need to quit watching Pat Robertson and join the real world...
 

DaveyR

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I tried dating women from High School up through College. They made great friends...but there was not one thing that attracted me to them. I can remember being fascinated by the male physique from even before puberty. When I finally accepted that I was gay my whole life made sense...from the smells I'm attracted to...the things I like to do, etc. I have no doubt whatsoever that I was born this way...and the doctor friends I have (one who is a shrink) believe the same thing.
Based on the horrible things that people I know have gone through with family...physical violence...being fired from jobs... not 1% of me can believe that it was a "choice" to be that way. Perhaps a few here need to quit watching Pat Robertson and join the real world...

Congratulations on your choice :wink:
 

AquaEyes11010

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Read "The Blank Slate" by Stephen Pinker sometime. There is no separation of nature and nurture. Some biological processes are turned on only by environmental cues, and sometimes the same environmental cue affects different genotypes differently.

What must be remembered is that humans don't have sex for reproduction. If we did, we wouldn't have sex outside a woman's fertile period, and we would still exhibit the sexual swellings indicative of a female's cycle like our great-ape ancestors. Sexuality has evolved into social function, of which reproduction is one of several outcomes.

And here's something else to consider: if a non-human intelligent being was to study humans objectively, a range of sexual preferences would be noticed and deemed a part of our natural behavior. Why? Because it can be observed in populations across the planet and over all of our known history. Like it or not, it's been around for a very long time and will continue to do so.

What is the evolutionary benefit of families having some gay children? Well, humans did not evolve to live solely as breeding mated pairs. We lived in small groups, and the group worked together for the survival of the group. If everyone was reproducing to his or her maximum potential, then the survival rate of the group would diminish. Having an occasional gay child who stays in the family to help raise siblings has genetic benefits. In terms of math, a person having a child has only 50% of his nuclear DNA passed on. Helping to raise a sibling instead has about the same rate of return, but with a higher probability of outcome, since now there are three instead of two raising a child. And it takes an advantage as small as 0.1% to make a huge difference over time in terms of evolutionary benefit.

Oh, and personally I find it funny when people say gay is wrong because the bible says so, then try and cite science to battle the idea that some people are just biologically gay. If you want to hold the bible as being truer than science, then go back to writing on stone tablets and get away from the computer.
 

AquaEyes11010

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Besides, who cares why it is? It just is. Can you explain how in a family one kid will hate string beans, even though everyone else loves them? Was it nature? Was it nurture? Does it matter? The kid doesn't like string beans, and you can't force him to change. He might eat them, but he won't like them.
 

Principessa

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Do you remember what age it was that you chose to be straight?
ROTFLMAO :biggrin1: A word of advice JustAsking. Never attempt to teach a pig to speak. You will annoy the daylights out of the pig; and waste way too much of your valuable time. :tongue:


Well what chemical reaction turns you gay? An increase in estrogen? Behave, that'd make you grow breasts and become more emotional. Not all gay men are emotional, mincing fops.:mad: I dare say that if you were to meet many of the gay men from this site IRL you would have no clue they were gay.
But seriously what actual effects are proven to actually effect sexuality inside a person? None from what I can see, therefore I believe it is either a personal choice/belief or you've been bought up like that.

I can't think of a non-snarky way to voice my opinion on your post so I am going to go with my gut instinct.


That is one of the stupidest thing you have ever posted, Frizzle! :mad: It's right up there with my mothers theory on why PETA shouldn't have a problem with mink coats.
"Minks are related to weasels which are cousins to rats which are of course vermin. Therefore we are doing mankind a service by ridding the earth of vermin." njqt466's mom
Given how poorly homosexuals are treated worldwide there is no logical reason to believe it is a choice. If your opinion is correct, why on earth would anyone choose to be gay knowing that they would face a lifetime of harassment, bashing, discrimination, not to mention censure and condemnation by family and alleged friends, etc. :mad::headache::12:

Knowing what the world is like no parent in their right mind would choose to rear their offspring in such a fashion as to ensure they would become homosexual adults. I can't even begin to imagine what twisted thoughts you have on what that would entail. :twak::mad::twak::mad::twak:
 

AquaEyes11010

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That is one of the stupidest thing you have ever posted, Frizzle! :mad: It's right up there with my mothers theory on why PETA shouldn't have a problem with mink coats.
"Minks are related to weasels which are cousins to rats which are of course vermin. Therefore we are doing mankind a service by ridding the earth of vermin." njqt466's mom


Um, minks ARE related to weasels, but they are COMPLETELY unrelated to rats, except that they are all mammals, which also includes humans. Minks and weasels are mustelids, which are in the order Carnivora, which also includes dogs, cats, bears, racoons, hyaneas, mongooses and civets.
 

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There is no physical proof that you are born gay or it is a physical reaction within the body. Therefore it must be down to to either a server physological problem, well as many people in this thread would love to think, or a personal choice.

If your opinion is correct, why on earth would anyone choose to be gay knowing that they would face a lifetime of harassment, bashing, discrimination, not to mention censure and condemnation by family and alleged friends, etc

Just because someone is put at a disadvantage or put into a diffcult or akward situations, doesn't mean that it isn't their choice.

 

AlteredEgo

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All you are doing is simply restating that lack of proof of one theory leads to conclusive proof of another. You either cannot think clearly, or have elected not to because of homophobia or some other prejudice. I don't care which, but you look like a fool, as is often the case with you from my perspective.
 

dickthrobbing

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I do not believe a person is born gay no more than anyone is born to like the colour blue over green or like classical music over rock, I do believe that we as individuals as we grow become curious about different things in life and become more interested in somethings more than others, as we gather information and become increasingly curious and develop desires and we make decisions.

For some the decision to be gay, bi or straight is easy, for others they will suppress their desires perhaps all their life never coming to terms with their curiosity of desire my be due to social or peer pressures etc.

I place my self as bi curious it has taken me a long time to accept that from time to time I like the feel of dick in my mouth or arse and enjoy giving as well but I have no desire to become emotionally involved with another guy.


Accept what you are and respect others for what they choose to be above have great sex
 

frizzle

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Well again, if you had any logic, I'm not the one trying to prove that it's not a lifestyle choice, the multides of people in this thread are. I don't need to proove anything, that's up to you if you believe being gay isn't a lifestyle choice.
 

AlteredEgo

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Why is it so hard for some people to believe that everyone s different? if someone tells you they were born heterosexual, that they cannot remember a time in their life when they were not attracted to the opposite gender, and only the opposite gender, don't you believe them? Do you question it? Why is it such a stretch when someone else says they were born with a different set of attractions? How can anyone declare what another person felt their whole life? What fucking cajones! Ridiculous.
 

AlteredEgo

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Well again, if you had any logic, I'm not the one trying to prove that it's not a lifestyle choice, the multides of people in this thread are. I don't need to proove anything, that's up to you if you believe being gay isn't a lifestyle choice.

You made a conclusive statement. However, you were not the only one. I mentioned no names for precisely that reason. If you took the statement personally, you must have realized it applied to you. You are being utterly ridiculous, Frizzle, but you usually are.