The GOP is finally starting to shift on gay marriage

Discussion in 'Politics' started by D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, Apr 17, 2009.

  1. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    I noticed two fairly jarring signs today while scanning the blogs and news sites. You can now read the tea leaves.


    The socially conservative website Townhall.com ran this:

    Split in Conservative Bloggers on Gay Marriage: Equal numbers of conservative bloggers support and oppose gay marriage, according to a National Journal survey poll released today. full story

    (just the fact that Townhall would post this is tell-tale)


    Also, on the ABC News site there was this item:

    McCain Guru to GOP: Back Gay Marriage :

    ABC News' Teddy Davis reports:

    Former top McCain adviser Steve Schmidt is planning to use a Friday speech to the Log Cabin Republicans to urge the GOP to drop its opposition to same-sex marriage. "I'm confident American public opinion will continue to move on the question toward majority support, and sooner or later the Republican Party will catch up to it," Schmidt plans to say according to excerpts provided to ABC News.

    Schmidt's push for Republicans to endorse same-sex marriage comes as his party is grappling with a string of gay rights victories in Iowa, Vermont, and Washington, D.C.

    --------------------


    This is a harbinger of things to come. The tide is shifting now. Just as a few years ago, the GOP was finally, reluctantly, shifting on "gay rights" in general (the U.S. Supreme Court, "Lawrence v. Texas", 2003, finally decriminalized gay sex by a 6-3 vote -- which broke down opposition), republicans are now beginning to give up the fight for marriage as defined only as between "one man and one woman".

    Fine. Don't sing Kumbaya yet, but you can hear, my friends, the answer blowin' in the wind.
     
    #1 D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, Apr 17, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2009
  2. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    Will, who knew you were an eternal optimist? I thought that was my job.

    And isn't that just one of the things you love about me?
     
  3. catman

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    This makes the whole Prop 8 situation in California even more baffling, sadly.
     
  4. Bbucko

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    I seriously wouldn't hold my breath about this. The GOP's walk in the wilderness has just begun. There'll be plenty of lunacy left to go before sanity eventually prevails.
     
  5. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    The GOP needs to split. The ultra right and right-moderates have no unifying leadership and this is particularly troublesome as the right-moderates are learning that the single greatest anchor they have are the ultra right who, in turn, resent the right-moderates who they feel don't carry the force of conviction necessary for a truly conservative part.

    Neither faction dares acknowledge the fastest growing Republican population, the libertarians. Libertarian-minded Republicans eschew the Libertarian party and have demonstrated this with the surprisingly strong popularity of Ron Paul in the last election. Traditional republicans are highly suspicious of the libertarians who seem to lack the conservative moral values while embracing, even exceeding, traditional Republican ideas of free markets and individual liberties.

    The Republicans have a crisis of leadership. Again, I advocate a Republican convention where the entire party can work on restructuring every single plank in their platform. We know the religious fundamentalists will turn-up, but will anyone else who can counter their vocal numbers and convince the party that without true re-assessment they're doomed to irrelevancy?
     
  6. midlifebear

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    Sounds reasonable to me, but I still don't trust anyone that imbibes in the Log Cabin Syrup. When real Vermont Maple Syrup is only a few dollars more!
     
  7. houtx48

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    power makes strange bed fellows...............
     
  8. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    ...and lack of power will make stranger ones.
     
  9. sargon20

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    Window dressing. The Republican Party remains a rural party with rural values. Do we believe gay marriage will fly in rural America? Zoom in on any major city and they are all blue, only rural America votes Republican.
     
  10. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    In the long-term sense, the religious right is in a sort of catch-22.

    When the Massachusetts state Supreme Court first legalized gay marriage at the end of 2003 (and gay marriages officially began mid-2004), there was not a majority public support for same-sex marriage. I think 40 or 45% supported it (can't remember the exact percentage), not a majority. Now, however, five years later, support has risen to nearly two-thirds. The average Joe (and Jane) has lived with gay marriage in MA for half a decade, has seen no social harm (as the religious right promises will occur), it's live-and-let-live.

    In Iowa, support for gay marriage is in a clear minority right now. History tells us this will change. The concept of gay marriage is still fresh and Iowans are skeptical. Give it a couple years. That's the pattern.

    With more and more states taking up the issue of same-sex marriage via courts or legislature, eventually additional states will adopt gay marriage. When support is strong, potential republican political candidates can no longer run "against" gay marriage and remain competitive. The GOP sees the writing on the wall (GOP candidates like Sarah Palin shouting out "Marriage is between one man and one woman!" at rallies will become as anachronistic as advocating for "white" drinking fountains and "colored" drinking fountains).

    In ten years time, the moderate portion of the religious right will be telling us that they were never against gay marriage all along. Like with interracial marriage, they'll simply rewrite history.
     
    #10 D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, Apr 18, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2009
  11. Flashy

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    typical laughable bullshit. only "rural" americans vote Republican, huh? Maybe you can shine that laser focus of yours from across the atlantic to prove that, huh?

    here is the real estate definition of "rural"

    Pertaining to the area outside the larger and moderate-sized cities and surrounding population concentrations. Generally characterized by farms, ranches, small towns, and unpopulated regions.


    Your cute little zoom link indeed shows areas that went blue, but there are plenty of Republicans in those city areas that are blue.

    so indeed, let us look at many of those cities...you said all the major ones are "all blue"

    Phoenix, Arizona isn't "blue"
    Fort Worth, Texas isn't blue
    Oklahoma City, Oklahoma isn't blue
    Tulsa, Oklahoma isn't blue
    Virginia Beach, VA isn't blue
    Knoxville, Tennessee isn't blue
    Mobile, Alabama isn't blue
    Jacksonville, Florida isn't blue
    Spokane, Washington isn't blue




    and the fact is, that american cities are predominately minority-majorities now, with whites moving out to the suburbs...as such the republican party does well in those suburbs, and less well in the cities.

    suburbs are very different from rural...they are not the same at all.

    hardly underlines your point that the Republican Party is a "rural" party, even though it has lots of rural supporters.

    your contention also doesn't ring true for primarily rural areas that have major democratic areas as well...such as Wisconsin, which is virtually all blue throughout the rural areas as well.

    what about Vermont? it is one of the most rural states around, and it is all blue...not one county went red.

    same with new Hampshire and Maine...only one county went red in those two states combined.


    New York City, one of the most liberal places in the United States, had republican mayors from 1993-2007.

    Indianapolis currently has a republican mayor
    Dallas currently has a republican mayor
    Charlotte currently has a republican mayor
    Anaheim currently has a republican mayor
    Los Angeles had a republican mayor from 1993-2001
    San Diego currently has a republican mayor

    to name a few



    so tell us another one, Sargon the Great


    the fact is, that the largest cities are primarily blue, because of the minority-majorities now in place...who vote overwhelmingly democratic...but there are plenty of smaller american cities, with populations of around 100,000-200,000 that are majority red.

    and even in the largest urban areas, there is still a very sizable republican presence...such as these numbers:

    Republican % in major cities on your map
    Los Angeles County - 29.4%
    Fresno County - 49%
    San Diego County - 44.4%
    Dallas - 41.9%
    Houston - 48.9%
    San Antonio - 46.9%
    Minneapolis - 34.9%
    Milwaukee 31.4%
    Birmingham 47.2%
    Atlanta - 32.2%
    Louisville - 43.5%
    Indianapolis - 35.4%
    Cincinatti - 46.9%
    Columbus 39.7%
    Cleveland - 30.4%
    Tampa - 48.4%
    Charlotte - 37.5%
    Pittsburgh - 41.9%
    Buffalo - 40.8%


    if you wish to critique the republican party, please at least use the numerous available *facts* to do so. Lying isn't necessary, unless one has an agenda....oh...wait...it's sargon.

    You are nothing but a shit stirrer from across the sea.

    grow up.
     
  12. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    Two things:

    New York's mayor, Mike Bloomberg, switched to being an independent in 2007.

    Vermont only has one congressional district. The weight of the blue sentiment in the cities outweighs (just) the very heavy conservatism of the rural areas. Vermont, though, is more libertarian-leaning in its conservatism than Republican. It's a New England brand of conservatism that does not resemble its southern or midwestern counterparts. Civil unions were a very divisive issue when they debuted and that included vandalism of some gay community centers. It was by no means a settled issue and I think the legislature needing to override the governor's veto demonstrates that even today.
     
    #12 jason_els, Apr 18, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2009
  13. Flashy

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    i am aware of that Jas, which is why, you will please note, i wrote in my post that

    "New York City, one of the most liberal places in the United States, had republican mayors from 1993-2007."


    thus my saying of"1993-2007" since that (2007) was the operative time of Bloomies political switch and I stated NYC "had" republican mayors from 1993-2007 :smile:

    give me a bit of credit, my friend :wink:
     
  14. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    Sorry, I didn't read that part. My apologies! :smile:
     
  15. Notaguru2

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    Another example of the wheels coming off the GOP. We are witnessing the death of a political party. The party is so fractured I can't see them overcoming the damage that mounts by the day.
     
  16. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    The Republican party's a mess but it won't die. Our political system makes anything more than two powerful parties all but impossible. They're not going anywhere.

    What matters is what they're going to do to become viable again on a national level.
     
  17. houtx48

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    the gop will find their voice it always does. if there is a viable third party this would be a good time for it to emerge.
     
  18. Calboner

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    My God, what's next? Republicans who support teaching evolutionary biology in public schools?
     
  19. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

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    Meghan McCain is quickly becoming a conservative gay icon.

    Meghan McCain is John McCain's 24-year-old daughter. This weekend she addressed the Log Cabin Republicans:

    " I am proud to join you in challenging the mold and the notions of what being a Republican means. I am concerned about the environment. I love to wear black. I think government is best when it stays out of people's lives and business as much as possible. I love punk rock. I believe in a strong national defense. I have a tattoo. I believe government should always be efficient and accountable. I have lots of gay friends. And yes, I am a Republican," she said.


    Meghan McCain's Log Cabin Manifesto - George's Bottom Line



    These thoughts are at least the straight talk of a rational woman. Meghan McCain has called Ann Coulter "Offensive, radical, insulting, confusing". Meghan Megan supports gay marriage. Maybe this is what the future of the republican party will look like.
     
  20. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    this can't be happening!:eek:

    OMG! :eek: OMG! :eek:


    what's the diff between inner city dems standing in the lines for their welfare checks, accompanied by all their illegitimate children, and repubs, then?
     
    #20 B_Nick4444, Apr 19, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2009
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