The growing violence -- the guns at the Townhalls, the birthers

[Mr Ed in Mass]

Bbucko
Thanks for taking the time to check it out for yourself.

 

[Bbucko]

Bbucko
Thanks for taking the time to check it out for yourself.

No problem. Checking things out on my own, first-hand when possible, is how I operate.

 

[SpeedoGuy]

I Now just because you show up somewhere with a gun is fear mongering?

Showing up heavily armed at politcal rallies where emotions run high sends a strong message: a message many will interpret as a threat or intimidation.

So, yah, displaying guns in the wrong forum is fearmongering.

 

[Ericsson1228d]

With all due respect, they aren't the ones toting guns to town halls. Think about that for a moment.

Yeah, I did, and to channel some previous posters:

Nobody broke the law.

 

[Ericsson1228d]

Showing up heavily armed at politcal rallies where emotions run high sends a strong message: a message many will interpret as a threat or intimidation.

So, yah, displaying guns in the wrong forum is fearmongering.

In another thread, I was told in such situations essentially:

If you are intimidated, that is your own fears and your own fault. Obviously, none of the other hundreds of people at the rally felt intimidated, or they obviously would have left.

Vinylboy, care to espouse your treatise on the issue as we discussed in the Black Panther thread? or does it not fit your purpose here?

 

[B_VinylBoy]

In another thread, I was told in such situations essentially:

If you are intimidated, that is your own fears and your own fault. Obviously, none of the other hundreds of people at the rally felt intimidated, or they obviously would have left.

Vinylboy, care to espouse your treatise on the issue as we discussed in the Black Panther thread? or does it not fit your purpose here?

Stop making it this easy to discredit you...
Although I do worry more about those who carry loaded guns than sticks, and I clearly have admitted this in other threads (so you can stop typing the word "hypocrite" now), here's one of the major differences between those Black Panthers you still think were "intimidating" people versus the people carrying the guns to political rallies and protests.

Right now, the gun wielders are not just merely standing around exercising their Second Amendment Rights (I just love how people try to hide behind the Constitution like it's some kind of morality shield). Some are actually making threats towards violence, as demonstrated by the two pictures I linked to this post. You can sit here and try your hardest to validate your fears for two black men in military gear in front of a building, but I don't see these two men or anyone like them going to political rallies and threatening to swing those sticks at anyone, now do we? This goes beyond whether or not other people in the crowd were intimidated or not, as I'm sure some people probably were even if they are against Obama's policies. Then again, these people who were threatening potential gun violence were surrounded by like minded people unlike the two men in Philadelphia who made their stand ALONE. Makes it easier to make your hateful statements and threats more visible when you do it from the comforts of a mob, doesn't it?

If you're actually willing to look at the two instances with objective eyes and identify which issue has more severity, the differences between the two are glaring. Of course... I'm sure you're going to ignore the differences here because you need to downplay the people threatening gun violence at political rallies just so you can hold onto your beliefs regarding the two men in Philly. That's the problem when you try so hard play Politics, sweetie... your blatant blindness makes you ineligible to talk coherently on the subject matter. And to the rest of my enemies, notice not one mention of Democrat or Republican... nor one mention of "Liberal" or "Conservative". Try to put your political fanboyism aside for once and meet the issue head on.


EDIT: I added two more pictures to prove my point. How is it that we now have multiple people, who seemingly don't know each other, posting the same gun threatening rhetoric? Willing to admit there's a problem yet?

 

[D_Sir Fitzwilly Wankheimer III]

Stop making it this easy to discredit you...
Although I do worry more about those who carry loaded guns than sticks, and I clearly have admitted this in other threads (so you can stop typing the word "hypocrite" now), here's one of the major differences between those Black Panthers you still think were "intimidating" people versus the people carrying the guns to political rallies and protests.

Right now, the gun wielders are not just merely standing around exercising their Second Amendment Rights (I just love how people try to hide behind the Constitution like it's some kind of morality shield). Some are actually making threats towards violence, as demonstrated by the two pictures I linked to this post. You can sit here and try your hardest to validate your fears for two black men in military gear in front of a building, but I don't see these two men or anyone like them going to political rallies and threatening to swing those sticks at anyone, now do we? This goes beyond whether or not other people in the crowd were intimidated or not, as I'm sure some people probably were even if they are against Obama's policies. Then again, these people who were threatening potential gun violence were surrounded by like minded people unlike the two men in Philadelphia who made their stand ALONE. Makes it easier to make your hateful statements and threats more visible when you do it from the comforts of a mob, doesn't it?

If you're actually willing to look at the two instances with objective eyes and identify which issue has more severity, the differences between the two are glaring. Of course... I'm sure you're going to ignore the differences here because you need to downplay the people threatening gun violence at political rallies just so you can hold onto your beliefs regarding the two men in Philly. That's the problem when you try so hard play Politics, sweetie... your blatant blindness makes you ineligible to talk coherently on the subject matter. And to the rest of my enemies, notice not one mention of Democrat or Republican... nor one mention of "Liberal" or "Conservative". Try to put your political fanboyism aside for once and meet the issue head on.


EDIT: I added two more pictures to prove my point. How is it that we now have multiple people, who seemingly don't know each other, posting the same gun threatening rhetoric? Willing to admit there's a problem yet?

no surprise in your eyes the panthers were having cake and juice while any white person goes out and and says don't "don't tread on me is a millitia screwball. "i belive that was out slogan on our country's flag at one point. I see this no different then than standing up against Britain.

You may want to call then conservative right wing what evers but the fact is that they've carried their beliefs and way of life that originally sprung us from England. They're the ones that gave you all your rights they willingly gave their blood. They're ready to do it again to clean out the crapthat has poluted this great nation. You think afganistan is a bitch? we invented guerilla warefare. the best part is that you bleeding hart libs will help us all the way. you're appaled when we snuff out insurgents that hide among citizens. you're gonna be our shield.

Machine Gun Shootout // Current

 

[Ericsson1228d]

Well put, Big E.

And, the Constitution does not dictate morality, just the law.

Protest is legal. The signage is legal and falls under the First Amendment.

On the other hand, voter intimidation is not.

If the people with guns were standing outside a polling place, I think the law would apply, regarding voter intimidation -- but they weren't!

 

[B_VinylBoy]

no surprise in your eyes the panthers were having cake and juice while any white person goes out and and says don't "don't tread on me is a millitia screwball. "i belive that was out slogan on our country's flag at one point. I see this no different then than standing up against Britain.

Bullshit... re-read my post. Notice that I haven't even mentioned the race or color of any person wielding a gun. That's because I know that one of the people in question who did come to a rally with a gun was black. However, you were quick to assume that I was only referring to only white people. Extremely predictable, and equally pathetic of you. Now, I'm sure if I used the "R" word here to refer to your actions, you'd be calling me a victim or trying to downplay the issue. Just be aware that YOU are the one looking at this issue through such bigoted and discriminatory eyes.

You may want to call then conservative right wing what evers but the fact is that they've carried their beliefs and way of life that originally sprung us from England.

Didn't notice that I haven't even tried to make the issue a Conservative or Liberal one either. Reading is fundamental... I suggest you engage in it sometime.

They're the ones that gave you all your rights they willingly gave their blood. They're ready to do it again to clean out the crapthat has poluted this great nation. You think afganistan is a bitch? we invented guerilla warefare. the best part is that you bleeding hart libs will help us all the way. you're appaled when we snuff out insurgents that hide among citizens. you're gonna be our shield.

Excuse me, did you say something here worth rebutting? I couldn't hear you with your boom box blaring "America The Beautiful" so loudly.

Do yourself a favor and save the crybaby, political rhetoric for someone else. This isn't an issue about the Second Amendment or about people's rights to be armed. This is about holding people thoroughly responsible for their actions if they decide to engage in this right. Nobody should be threatening gun violence at anyone here. Period. Also, your comparison between the current "revolt" we're experiencing to our fight with the British is insanely laughable. But I think most people can recognize that already.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

If the people with guns were standing outside a polling place, I think the law would apply, regarding voter intimidation -- but they weren't!

Irrelevant, as the men you want to demonize as intimidators were not standing in front of the building with guns. They were only dressed in a way you didn't approve of, and only one was in possession of a stick. One actually lived in the building.

Stop trying to validate your bigotry here by downplaying the issue. The more dismissive you are on the matter, the more ignorant you look.

 

[Ericsson1228d]

Irrelevant, as the men you want to demonize as intimidators were not standing in front of the building with guns. They were only dressed in a way you didn't approve of, and only one was in possession of a stick. One actually lived in the building.

Stop trying to validate your bigotry here by downplaying the issue. The more dismissive you are on the matter, the more ignorant you look.

Really? I thought I was just making my point. Your lack of any valid counterpoint is evidenced by you resorting to name calling and referring to my "bigotry." Haven't you learned that these accusations have become meaningless in discussions that have nothing to do with race?

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Really? I thought I was just making my point.

No you weren't. That is, unless, your point is nothing more than mere speculation and a bunch of assumptions.

Your lack of any valid counterpoint is evidenced by you resorting to name calling and referring to my "bigotry."

I name call because I'm an asshole... but only to those who deserve it. That's part of my sarcastic nature when I'm debating something that should be plainly obvious to a rational thinking adult. And please, illustrate what "point" you're trying to make... keeping in mind that if you have to engage in bullshit like "Liberal", "Conservative", "Democrat" or "Republican" you've already lost. This is about YOU right now. Not a political affiliation.

Haven't you learned that these accusations have become meaningless in discussions that have nothing to do with race?

Then tell me, why did Big_E bring it to the table? The issue is about the growing violence at town hall meetings. It has nothing to do with the Black Panthers from last year, nor does it have to do with the skin color of the people bringing guns to the rallies. Having a hard time staying focused on the subject matter, sweetie? Need some help trying to make statements about the subject matter that doesn't involve mentioning the skin color of perpetrators? Perhaps you should practice that before engaging me in anymore discussions because right now you look like an ass.

If you don't want to be labeled as a bigot, then don't bring those ideals to the table. But when people make comments like this:

no surprise in your eyes the panthers were having cake and juice while any white person goes out and and says don't "don't tread on me is a millitia screwball.

... and when people like YOU agree with them blindly, then don't get all antsy when someone calls you out on that bullshit. Kinda hard to talk about something not being racial in tone when you're actually referring to it at the same time, isn't it? Kinda like calling a girl a bitch, then turning around and saying that you didn't mean it in a "disrespectful way".

 

[Ericsson1228d]

No you weren't. That is, unless, your point is nothing more than mere speculation and a bunch of assumptions.



I name call because I'm an asshole... but only to those who deserve it. That's part of my sarcastic nature when I'm debating something that should be plainly obvious to a rational thinking adult. And please, illustrate what "point" you're trying to make... keeping in mind that if you have to engage in bullshit like "Liberal", "Conservative", "Democrat" or "Republican" you've already lost. This is about YOU right now. Not a political affiliation.



Then tell me, why did Big_E bring it to the table? The issue is about the growing violence at town hall meetings. It has nothing to do with the Black Panthers from last year, nor does it have to do with the skin color of the people bringing guns to the rallies. Having a hard time staying focused on the subject matter, sweetie? Need some help trying to make statements about the subject matter that doesn't involve mentioning the skin color of perpetrators? Perhaps you should practice that before engaging me in anymore discussions because right now you look like an ass.

If you don't want to be labeled as a bigot, then don't bring those ideals to the table. But when people make comments like this:



... and when people like YOU agree with them blindly, then don't get all antsy when someone calls you out on that bullshit. Kinda hard to talk about something not being racial in tone when you're actually referring to it at the same time, isn't it? Kinda like calling a girl a bitch, then turning around and saying that you didn't mean it in a "disrespectful way".

You can label me with whatever term helps you to justify your arguments in your own mind. It really doesn't bother me.

And It seems to me that the point Big_E brought to the table was to point out how different your (and others) viewpoint was when comparing the Black Panthers incident and the lawfully armed citizens demonstrating their First and Second Amendment rights. One was "just fine," while the other was "completely unacceptable."

 

[B_VinylBoy]

You can label me with whatever term helps you to justify your arguments in your own mind. It really doesn't bother me.

Which is why you have to say it to me and to the rest of the forum over and over and over again. Don't bullshit me.

And It seems to me that the point Big_E brought to the table was to point out how different your (and others) viewpoint was when comparing the Black Panthers incident and the lawfully armed citizens demonstrating their First and Second Amendment rights.

Still using the Constitution as a shield, I see? How pathetic.
While Big_E was ranting, he also brought the issue of race to the table. He accused me as being someone who unfairly targets white people when I didn't even mention the skin color of a single person who have brought guns to the Town Hall Meetings or the recent rallies... and YOU AGREED WITH HIM. Of course, now that I pointed out his mistake and illustrated that I never even mentioned race when referring to people who brought guns to the rallies and town halls, you're trying to act as if "race" isn't part of the equation. If that's the case, then don't bring the shit up. Period. Otherwise, don't flinch when I call you a hypocrite. Too busy trying to filter everything with a Liberal/Conservative net that you can't even see your own faults on the subject matter.

One was "just fine," while the other was "completely unacceptable."

You're the one trying to bring up the issue of the Black Panthers into the mix as a deflection from the subject matter which is about the growing violence at TOWN HALLS and political rallies. What happened in Philly has nothing to do with this, no matter how much you try and act as if the two are related. Stick to the topic or shut your hole.

Civility is wasted on a morally deceptive person like you, and I'm amazed as to how I tolerated your ignorance for so long.

 

[Ericsson1228d]

Civility is wasted on a morally deceptive person like you, and I'm amazed as to how I tolerated your ignorance for so long.

Yes, you are first on my list for any tolerance award!

 

[Ajacoid]

We could see it building already last fall at the Sarah Palin rallies when Sarah would work up the crowd pressing racial hot buttons (Rev. Wright, Obama: the Muslim terrorist) and random southern red-staters would yell "Kill him!", kill Obama.

We saw the birthers and their blatant, ugly hatred for a black president (let's not mince words -- they ignored all proofs). The Obama/Hitler, Obama/Joker signs at the Tea Parties. We saw, we continue to see, the guns brought to the townhalls at which Obama speaks.

Limbaugh and Hannity and Beck are out there every day, nurturing and stoking the latent fears some conservatives have against a black man in the Oval Office.



Today, Nancy Pelosi addressed this heated, fervid rhetoric, this growing sense of violence in the air. Emotional. Please watch. She alludes to Dan White -- who shot and killed Mayor George Moscone and Supervisor Harvey Milk in San Francisco in the late '70's:


YouTube - Rep. Nancy Pelosi worries about Protests violence

So despite the left's fear mongering, rhetoric, and allegations, the most recent violence by one of these "crazy rightwing nuts" (paraphrasing) was from the late '70s? Since your title says "he growing violence," please enlighten me with examples were actual violence took place recently? How many people were beat up by these people (birthers or whatever derogatory terms you tolerant, open minded, enlightened people like to call them) (vs. number of people beat up by union thugs at health care town hall meetings). How many of these guns brought to meetings were used to fire upon people? You are ready to point the finger at Beck, Rush, Hannity, but have you actually listened to them or are you just copying and pasting talking points from central command (aka DNC)? Because I listen to them, and I am yet to receive my marching order to take up arms and start shooting.

I personally think it's a mistake to bring a firearm to such an event, but it doesn't change the fact these people have the constitutional right to bear arms. But you'd prefer to shut them down, keep them from gathering to protest and execute their first and second amendment rights, simply because they believe different things than you do. Where have I heard that before...

 

[Bbucko]

Yes, you are first on my list for any tolerance award!

So despite the left's fear mongering, rhetoric, and allegations, the most recent violence by one of these "crazy rightwing nuts" (paraphrasing) was from the late '70s? Since your title says "he growing violence," please enlighten me with examples were actual violence took place recently? How many people were beat up by these people (birthers or whatever derogatory terms you tolerant, open minded, enlightened people like to call them) (vs. number of people beat up by union thugs at health care town hall meetings). How many of these guns brought to meetings were used to fire upon people? You are ready to point the finger at Beck, Rush, Hannity, but have you actually listened to them or are you just copying and pasting talking points from central command (aka DNC)? Because I listen to them, and I am yet to receive my marching order to take up arms and start shooting.

I personally think it's a mistake to bring a firearm to such an event, but it doesn't change the fact these people have the constitutional right to bear arms. But you'd prefer to shut them down, keep them from gathering to protest and execute their first and second amendment rights, simply because they believe different things than you do. Where have I heard that before...

Annnnnnnnnnd the LPSG Martyr Of The Week competition is really heating up. Will Faceking or WyldGooseChaz be able to pull off an upset?

Stay tuned, folk! These martyrs mean business!

 

[Ajacoid]

Irrelevant, as the men you want to demonize as intimidators were not standing in front of the building with guns. They were only dressed in a way you didn't approve of, and only one was in possession of a stick. One actually lived in the building.

Stop trying to validate your bigotry here by downplaying the issue. The more dismissive you are on the matter, the more ignorant you look.

http://patdollard.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/black-panther1-500x479.jpg

Nothing intimidating about that huh? What if they had been wearing a Klan outfit and were white dudes, "only one of them holding a stick (which in that case would have been identified as a deadly weapon to be sure)," presenting themselves the same way as these guys did? The world would have been too small for the outrage. I think I know where you would stand had the issue been such.

 

[Ericsson1228d]

Annnnnnnnnnd the LPSG Martyr Of The Week competition is really heating up. Will Faceking or WyldGooseChaz be able to pull off an upset?

Stay tuned, folk! These martyrs mean business!

:tongue: Well played. LOL

 

[Ajacoid]

Annnnnnnnnnd the LPSG Martyr Of The Week competition is really heating up. Will Faceking or WyldGooseChaz be able to pull off an upset?

Stay tuned, folk! These martyrs mean business!

I guess this attempt at humor is what one resorts to when one runs out of arguments. Thanks for playing, and above all, thanks for continuing to prove my point about liberals. If you want to get into the dozens with me, you better get a couple of boxes of cleanex.