The healthcare reform bill is shit.

StormfrontFL

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to which we reply "Bollocks!"

it is cheaper to eat correctly; how much does it cost to walk, run around the park? pull oneself away from the telly?
You simple drunkard it may shock you to learn that in some areas it costs a great deal for fresh vegetables.

Is it easy for you to push yourself away from the bar? I think not!
 

FuzzyKen

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What is interesting is that this debate is based on personal experience. Those who have had negative experiences and experienced the flaws and disasters of the present system rant and foam at the mouth because they have been victimized.

Those who at present are secure in their employment and have had no problems trumpet the satisfaction simply because they themselves have never been impacted and they do not see or care about the plight of others less fortunate than themselves.

Hey, I would have trumpeted for the "anti-change bandwagon" too at one time. It took the final year of my Mother's life and the horrific experiences I encountered with a Medicare Conversion HMO to change my opinion.

The current system sadly is pricing people out of the health care system completely. Try and go out and get any kind of coverage at all if you are a transplant patient and you change jobs or are laid off. Try and get coverage if you have ever had a cancer diagnosis and were successfully treated. In spite of the fact that one is now OK, the insurance companies will not touch a former internal cancer patient.

My Mother had served people as an RN and surgical nurse for a good portion of her life. She was initially covered under Blue Cross/Blue Shield. As she aged they began to raise her premiums until they would have been over $1,000 per month. This was my friends for a Medicare Supplemental Policy. She simply could not afford that. It would have taken over 1/2 of her retirement income. She changed over to what initially was a very good program under a company called FHP. FHP was bought out by Pacificare which is commonly known in some parts of the Country as "Secure Horizons". It was Secure Horizons and their brainless wonders at Oasis IPA which routinely denied care to a then 75 year old woman. After a heart attack she was denied CCU and was under orders of "Secure Horizons" placed into a residential care facility without even a cardiac monitor. She was discharged from that establishment in horrible condition one week later unable to breathe and having chest pains. The attempt to re-admit her to the hospital failed because Secure Horizons would not cover the costs. She died of a burst abdominal aortic aneurysm 24 hours later with incredibly high blood pressure which had never been monitored.

I investigated a lawsuit and what was done was so blatant that it would have been a "slam-dunbk". But, in order to collect a settlement I would have had to agree to a "gag order" after 5 years of time in and out of court and no amount of money would have brought my Mother back.

The Los Angeles based law firm had at that time 52 other cases of this kind of abuse under litigation by this same company. There were many other companies doing exactly the same thing. How about a 52 year old man losing a leg because the hospital did not want to pay for testing for necrotizing staff. The abuses go on and on.

What we have in this health care bill stinks pure and simple. But, it is a beginning and it will give people a vehicle to modify and fix the problems over time. Medicare started in exactly the same way in the mid 1960's.

Currently people are being denied any private insurance for the following conditions: Hypertension, diabetes, HIV, previous cancer diagnosis, COPD, Emphysema, Athsma, Crohn's Disease, Fibromyalgia, Lyme Disease, and scores of others.

It is easy to deny care to others, but when it happens to you or someone you love, those who deny that change is needed will attend a funeral and realize what they have supported. It will be a bitter pill to swallow. I know, I was one who had to swallow it personally with the death of my Mother in 2001.

 

seterwind

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Sorry for wall of text.

I wonder what America is anymore, I mean really. Is it a place for Ideals and maturity? Do the common folk actually believe in helping each other? Is it all full of such racism and hate?

Do conservatives believe it should be a place with no gays, all Christians, everyone should have guns, and anyone who can get to the top wins and screw everyone else who isn't yourself or your immediate family? If you aren't at the top then too bad keep trying?


I met an American the other day (Living in Canada right now and I myself am Canadian). She greeted my wife (who is American) with such glee. "Another American!" and this women went on to speak about Canadians as wierd and foreign and generally too different. She mentioned recently over the summer the province paid for some ads to remind people not to pour grease down the drain, and another ad to remind people to lock their car doors and not leave valuables in plain sight.

She expressed great disgust at this, and how annoying these ads are, and how pointless since everyone knows these things. I responded "It's not weird, it's just a Canuk thing. A lot of peopel don't realize you pour fat down the drain it can harden and cause the city millions in Damage. Also we're pretty bad about locking our homes/cars even though the #1 crime around right now is theft from a vehicle. So the government is spending money to inform the public about simple things that'll save them, and the government money. The city has a 33 million surplus right now and 20 mil of that was from savings in budget for sewer line/waste management repairs."

Her response "It's still stupid, honestly I still pour grease down the drain, since I rent cause I don't have to pay for it. If I owned a place maybe I wouldn't because it might clog my houses pipes but seriously what a waste of money on ads."

We had various other conversations throughout the day, and my wife informed me this women is the typical american.

I have since lost hope for America.
 

B_talltpaguy

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^That chick is definitely a typical American (or at least typical for a pretty big chunk of the population)... I once had to argue rather strenuously with my live-in gf at the time to please stop pouring bacon grease and oil from pan frying down the garbage disposal. She insisted that the garbage disposal "broke it up", and it didn't matter. She only relented because I pulled rank as the owner of the house she was living in for free... I also had an issue with her clogging the sinks with hair. She was a complete fucking idiot, which is par for the course when you're a native Floridian.
 
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cruztbone

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As recent polls point out, once the actual facts of the health care plan become apparent, the majority of the public support them. Reform is scary and uncomfortable, Stratedude and Sinwin, and it takes courageous people like Obama to bring it off. Once you have some more life experience and have done some actual reading of this nation's history, perhaps then you will understand. We can only hope.
 

B_talltpaguy

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^Why hope for anything with these useless children? All they do when they 'try to help' is get in the way, break things, and then they throw tantrums when their naive little minds don't understand what is going on, and why their 'help' only hurts.

I say who cares what they think? As the rest of us just proved in unmistakable terms, WE DON'T NEED THEM to achieve necessary goals to ensure the future of this country. In fact, all they have proven for the past decade is that they were incompetent and unable to solve problems effectively when they were in power, and that they're equally incompetent now that they are out of power.
 
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deleted15807

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First, dear Sargon, thanks for posting the op ed piece by Frank Rich, but most of these LPSG-er folks have a much lower Gunning Fog Index and cannot understand what Mr. Rich writes.

Second, I'll be happy to start a "sterilize" Nick of the sixes fund if anyone else thinks it might help him. It wouldn't be hard. Just slip him a couple of rufies while he's drinking to knock him out. Spirit him across the border into Nuevo Loredo (Nicky poo lives in San Antonio, so Mexico is REAL close), and I bet we could get him spayed and back home in less than 24 hours.

Most dogs seem to calm down and present better house behavior as well as becoming real social after having their balls cut off. They're usually happier and live longer, too. It's just a suggestion. :smile:

You are welcome. I would be HAPPY to chip in for the fund. In fact if you need a fundraiser I'm your man.
:biggthumpup2: And I don't think he'll need any anesthesia.
 

B_Nick4444

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Its isnt cheaper to eat an "appropriate diet". Believe it or not, but decent fruit and vegtables and meat cost money. However, cheap manufactured crap from tins, is dirt cheap.

You simple drunkard it may shock you to learn that in some areas it costs a great deal for fresh vegetables.

Is it easy for you to push yourself away from the bar? I think not!

a tin of vegetables, while being cheaper to purchase, is also likely to be higher in nutritional value than fresh vegetables and fruits

"...The first of a two-part review of the recent and classical literature reveals that loss of nutrients in
fresh products during storage and cooking may be more substantial than commonly perceived. Depending on
the commodity, freezing and canning processes may preserve nutrient value. ..."

http://www.letsgo.org/resources/5210/five/CannedAndFrozenFacts.pdf


Yeah you can run around the park, but again, you have failed to adress the truth that that wouldnt solve half the illnesses people have.

it would prevent a vast array of degenerative diseases that this class of persons is subject to, and for which a great deal of public money is being spent on treating, and will be treated under national health care programs

and, yes, would be part of a curative regimen


With the way random police searches go, id imagine alot of poor people would have had a resounding success if they do a lap without being stopped atleast 3 times or arrested.

if I had posted this, the PC lib police force would be all over me; however, in this country this class of persons also drives, rather than walks

However, cheap manufactured crap from tins, is dirt cheap.

although I usually don't do my own shopping, I ventured into one of the supermarkets where I could observe the purchasing patterns of those feeding off the government teat, and observed it was a diet overwhelming made up of crap

moral of the lesson?
 

B_Nick4444

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Please keep drinking. Imagine a world in which an alcoholic, side of the road closeted cocksucker has the nerve to call someone else's lifestyle degenerate. You need help Nicky(sad, sad man that you are)

hilarious, I'm sure

degenerate lifestyle of course, refers to the lifestyle the underclass created by the liberal welfare state pursues, which leads to degenerative diseases
 

B_Nick4444

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I think you mean second-class. You, Nicky, are second-rate


no

"second-class citizen" is part of the lexicon of the left, part of the rhetoric used to shower a plenitude of "rights" and "entitlement" and "protections" onto anyone to whom the designation is made

"second-rate" was employed to describe a class of citizenry completely unaware of the responsibilities and obligations they bear for their own lives, the people in their lives, and the larger society and nation they are located in

very loud about their entitlements granted, not earned, oblivious to their duties and obligations

second-rate
 

Industrialsize

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no

"second-class citizen" is part of the lexicon of the left, part of the rhetoric used to shower a plenitude of "rights" and "entitlement" and "protections" onto anyone to whom the designation is made

"second-rate" was employed to describe a class of citizenry completely unaware of the responsibilities and obligations they bear for their own lives, the people in their lives, and the larger society and nation they are located in

very loud about their entitlements granted, not earned, oblivious to their duties and obligations

second-rate
It's, "and the larger society and nation in which they are located". It's grammatically incorrect to end a sentence in a preposition.
 

B_VinylBoy

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degenerate lifestyle of course, refers to the lifestyle the underclass created by the liberal welfare state pursues, which leads to degenerative diseases

And what, pray tell, is what you would consider a degenerative disease caused by these so-called "liberal welfare states"? By all means, you closeted dick sucker, keep digging yourself into a deeper hole and share with the class.

As if we didn't know where this is already leading to...
 

B_Nick4444

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And what, pray tell, is what you would consider a degenerative disease caused by these so-called "liberal welfare states"? By all means, you closeted dick sucker, keep digging yourself into a deeper hole and share with the class.

As if we didn't know where this is already leading to...

obesity, heart disease, hypertension, certain forms of diabetes, Alzheimer's, etc.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5828a1.htm

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Verdana]Rich and Lean, Poor and Fat

A class difference is being made apparent through the fattening of the poor. Rich people have a "Whole Foods" grocery store and plenty of money for high proteins and exercise programs. Poor people are stuck with the corner convenience store and are scared to walk around their own block. For example, "Whole Foods," an upscale, suburban chain offers foods like tempeh and whole wheat pasta; down at the local store on a Chicago ghetto street, one finds foods such as Cornflakes and Cheetos more readily available. Many of the poor simply don't have the cash or the wheels to travel to the better groceries, which they couldn't afford anyway. Having no money to join an exercise group, no public recreation programs and less access to decent health care, obesity among the poor is indeed much higher

http://victoria682.tripod.com/thelargestofall/id1.html
[/FONT]
 
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B_VinylBoy

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obesity, heart disease, hypertension, certain forms of diabetes, Alzheimer's, etc.

Texas has one of the highest obesity rates in the United States, nearing 29% as of 2008 in a recent study by the CDC - Obesity and Overweight for Professionals: Data and Statistics: U.S. Obesity Trends | DNPAO | CDC

The most cases of obesity in this country are in the South and the West, in many states that do not vote "liberal". Obesity is a MAJOR factor of heart disease and certain forms of diabetes. On default, that makes Texas, a state that you'll sit here and claim isn't a "welfare state" since they don't vote liberal, will also chart high in these categories as well. But since I'm sure you'll need proof, here are some links:

Diabetes: Diabetes (most recent) by state
Number 16 on that list, with many other Southern states right above it.

Heart Disease: Heart Disease | The State of State Health
Number 11 on that list... along with many other Southern states.

The cause and progression of Alzheimer's disease, a form of dementia, are not well understood. Research indicates that the disease is associated with plaques and tangles in the brain. Of course, in your brilliant observations with no medical research or background, you have conclusively linked the causes to "welfare states". Just like Diabetes, Heart Disease & Obesity which is certainly more of a problem where you live than where I ever called home.

In other words, STFU. Stick to being a bigot because medical science is not your strong suit.
 

StormfrontFL

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hilarious, I'm sure

degenerate lifestyle of course, refers to the lifestyle the underclass created by the liberal welfare state pursues, which leads to degenerative diseases
You really should have sought treatment earlier(before the syphilis destroyed your mind) but maybe there 's still time to save your liver.

BTW your statement makes absolutely no sense.
 

StormfrontFL

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no

"second-class citizen" is part of the lexicon of the left, part of the rhetoric used to shower a plenitude of "rights" and "entitlement" and "protections" onto anyone to whom the designation is made

"second-rate" was employed to describe a class of citizenry completely unaware of the responsibilities and obligations they bear for their own lives, the people in their lives, and the larger society and nation they are located in

very loud about their entitlements granted, not earned, oblivious to their duties and obligations

second-rate
Just as I stated...Nicky is SECOND-RATE.
 

TurkeyWithaSunburn

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If people cannot afford to provide the housing, education, and health care necessary to rear a child, they shouldn't be bearing children

If a person doesn't follow a healthy lifestyle (proper nutrition, exercise, et al), I should not be required to pay for their degenerate lifestyle

That goes against the bible, something about go forth and be fruitful and multiply. Isn't every woman supposed to have as many children as POSSIBLE, because it's God's "will" ?

I haven't ever drank alcohol but part of my tax dollars goes to stop people who do drink. All of those cops at the drunk driving checkpoints. Part of my insurance goes to pay for the carnage that is caused to body and property. You already pay for someone else's lifestyle whether you like it or not.

Corporations want food on the shelf to last as long as possible. Just look at all of the stuff with hydrogenated oils in them. Turns out the trans fat is far more damaging to human health than saturated fat. But hydrogenated oils are usually cheaper than animal fats and are therefore used more frequently. Of course there is the whole controversy surrounding HFCS, high fructose corn syrup, and whether that is to blame in part for obesity, because the body processes fructose slightly different than glucose (regular sugar). HFCS is effectively subsidized because it's made from corn starch, reacted with hydrochloric acid, and then that changes the starches to fructose. The reason why HFCS is used in sodas is because it's cheaper than sugar. Something like 1cent or less cheaper per can of soda.

And don't forget about all of the chemicals currently on the market, including some pesticides, which have no health studies on them. Lord knows how they react with the body. Prenatal exposure to phthalates has been linked to premature birth, inhibited genital development, low testosterone, asthma, allergies and obesity Mercury, mostly from coal burning power plants, causes irreversible damage to children in utero, lower IQ scores. But yet the free market externalizes those lower IQ scores onto society because the corporations don't want to spend the money to fully scrub powerplant emissions of mercury and increase the cost of electricity some fraction of a cent.

Are you sure the "degenerate lifestyle" isn't caused by the free market?
 

lucky8

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There really isn't much in the bill that will effect costs...in fact, it's going to raise premiums for young adults...

But wait! We can stay on our parents' insurance until 26!!!! but read the fine print...

young adults under the age of 26 can stay on their parents' insurance if their employer doesn't offer insurance.

"Well ok, but what if I can't afford individual coverage, and my insurance through work is higher than individual coverage?"

Answer: you're fucked. But you do get to pay a fine!!!


Here's what the dems must be thinking....

"Let's make this bill so that 10 years from now, everyone will actually want universal healthcare because no one can afford it elsewhere"

just wait...