The healthcare reform bill is shit.

[B_VinylBoy]

About 50% of whites voted for Obama. About 95% of blacks voted for Obama. Where is the racism here?

In your own head.
Beyond the percentages that you have now distorted to make such an outlandish claim, more white people voted for Obama than Blacks. Roughly 13 million black people voted in the last election. Whites made up more than 4 times that number.

White support for Obama is dynamic. White support for Obama waxes and wains as various aspects of Obama's job performance become apparent. Black support for Obama never changes no matter what he does.

I voted Hillary Clinton first. Thank you for assuming that my support for him "never changed" because initially I DIDN'T SUPPORT HIM.

Such an extreme bias is certainly NOT due to random chance. The nation-wide approval rating for Obama averages something approximately like 50% lately. So, there is some influence going on beyond the job performance to cause such abnormally extreme black support for Obama. Otherwise, black support for Obama should more resemble white support for Obama; something more like 50% and dynamicly changing as Obama works.

That's nice... so blacks have to be just like whites now in your bigoted little mind?

We know white support for Obama is divided and dynamic while black support is universal and static. What actually causes this phenomenon is VERY hard to determine.

Why don't you just ask a black man why this is instead of just assuming the worst and making an idiot of yourself? I can tell you why there's huge support for Obama in the black community. It can be narrowed down to two major factors:

1. He's the first black president. They all want to see him succeed and are willing to give him enough time to prove himself.
2. He's the closest thing a black person has ever had in the White House that actually understands what their concerns are.

However, the "coincidence" of near unanimous black support for Obama suspiciously resembles the dreaded racism (gasp).

So, what was the issue when the mass majority of Blacks supported Clinton, Gore & John Kerry? Was it racism then? Don't strain yourself trying to come up with an answer... because you can't come up with a logical one that doesn't make you look like a partisan hack with no clue.

I thought you said that people who didn't support helping out on health care were greedy. You're not greedy are you? So come on and send me some money.

By all means, if you need government assistance then use it. We BOTH pay taxes which go to fund these programs, so utilize it if you have to. THAT IS WHAT IT'S THERE FOR. As for me handing my personal money directly to you... the chances of you getting laid are much better. And that's putting it nicely.

 

[D_Davy_Downspout]

I already pointed it out to you where you did so stop acting innocent.

I have been insulting to you since...but I didn't start out that way.

Nice assumption, kid. But again, you're wrong.
The reason why I haven't addressed them is because I accept them for what they are. You constantly forget that we do agree on a variety of things on this thread. I already know the amount of people who weren't covered before HCL passed and how many people it leaves out. You hear these numbers repeated everyday on blogs and on evening news shows on MSNBC. Believe me, if I had a problem with your findings you would have known about it.

So you asked for sources why?

Again, nice assumption. One of these days you'll learn not to do that... or you'll continue to make incorrect ones about me and look like an ass.

Irony is dead.

On top of that, you can post a bunch of links that I may agree with and I still think you're full of shit. That's because your ideology is completely devoid of realism. You still haven't given me an answer as to how you would have expected a very progressive health care bill, to your desired specifications, would pass in the current Congress knowing that there were enough Conservative Democrats in the Senate willing to vote it down, as well as a president that was more than dedicated in making the bill bipartisan. Dare to wrestle with that one? Believe me when I say that poll figures from any website won't help you here.

You're floundering. You said something, it was wrong, I asked for sources, and now you're trying to change the subject.

I answered your question. I don't think my healthcare bill would pass congress. I didn't expect everything to pass all at once. I didn't even expect a huge change in this bill. I just expected more than we got, and am amazed at how bad this one is.

You'd remember that, if you read my posts, rather than trying to make them be strawmen of what you want them to be.

Another lie. The implication is here. And just in case you're too lazy to click on the link, here's the statement. Recognize the underlined passage: Ah yes, clearly I've thought nothing of this. If only I had you to put the 21% in perspective. Here I thought that they just loved being sick and decided to skip treatment for no reason at all.

Again, as I told you before, I was mocking your apparent belief that I don't care about sick people. I have no idea how you could reverse that onto you.

Your argumentative style, as well as your political beliefs are completely partisan. Therefore every statement you make takes the stance of the opposite for your adversary. Don't think I can't pick up on one's actions, son. You're not original and I can read your antics like a book. Since I know you're too proud to admit that you're wrong, I'll just tell you to STFU again and find another strategy.

Irony again.

Missing the point, as always.
You made a shallow comment about arguing with the "real you", yet you make it impossible for anyone to even guess what that is considering your desperate grasp to remain anonymous on this board. It's not just about this argument. Believe me, I don't give a damn what you look like. But actions speak louder than words.

And members from New York, Florida and Massachusetts have met me. That, again, is not the point.

My pictures are not on my profile to aid to the discussion. How shallowly narcissistic of you to think I would do something like that just for you. It's to let people like you know that I have nothing to hide here. That I'm comfortable enough in my own skin to let people see who they're talking to. Most of the real blowhards on this board that I have a problem with seem to all follow the same path as you. No pictures, a paranoidal sense of anonymity, a very sectarian mindset disguised as an "objective opinion", the uncanny ability to make repeated, incorrect assumptions, and a desperate need to label others based on one or two random factoids.

Like I said before, son.. you're not original. Now please, answer the question I stated earlier and please try hard not to sound like a bigot, OK?

I never claimed to be original, and adding my picture does not make me any less anonymous. I don't see you posting your name and address, not that it would matter if you did.

And since you missed my point, I said you're not engaging with my arguments, not "the real me".

 

[Industrialsize]

Exchanges such as the above^^^^^^ are best handled via PM so they don't clutter up the threads.

Thanks

 

[Levi]

Not being from America and coming from somewhere with a national health service, I find it difficult to understand why there is such oposition to universal health care in America.
I think most non Americans find the attitude of American conservatives deeply puzzling.

 

[D_Davy_Downspout]

Not being from America and coming from somewhere with a national health service, I find it difficult to understand why there is such oposition to universal health care in America.
I think most non Americans find the attitude of American conservatives deeply puzzling.

Most American's do NOT oppose universal health care. Hell, a majority would be OK with a completely government controlled system.

However, our officials are extremely bribe-able, our media is shit, and there is a LOT of money in healthcare.

 

[392847]

I think most non Americans find the attitude of American conservatives deeply puzzling.

A lot of Americans do too...

 

[B_Marius567]

put more money in to your 401k and lower your heath care tax and move your money in the stocks with no dividends becuese there going tax stocks dividends to pay for heath care.

you have 9 months to lower your heath care tax!!!!

you only pay tax on stocks when you sell.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

I have been insulting to you since...but I didn't start out that way.

No, you started it. Period.
You don't get to determine what offends another person. You made a variety of cleverly worded statements which over time gave me the impression that you were insulting me. I pay very careful attention to context, and I know instantly when someone is trying to get nasty. You can only do that a number of times before I strike back.

You're floundering. You said something, it was wrong, I asked for sources, and now you're trying to change the subject.

Actually, McFly... I never changed the subject.
I still maintain my belief that it's good that our congress passed something through. Even if it's a crappy bill that doesn't meet everyone's expectations, it's better to pass something after fighting for it for more than a year than nothing at all. That's where you went all crazy, claiming that it was people like me who convince our nation to go to the right, how I lack any conviction and motivation, claimed that I got "soft" by arguing against conservatives, labeled me as an apologist, than a centrist, etc, etc... That's why I've been in your grill ever since. Meanwhile, you're posting statistics as to why we should pass a more progressive bill without even noticing once where I said that I agree with you.

When it boils down to it, whether or not you agree with me about taking gradual steps to solve our nation's problems over pushing for major leaps in Congress is not a definitive answer. I don't give a damn if you think it's wrong, and there's not enough percentage data you can post about people foregoing health care in my hometown or anywhere else to back it. Even with a super majority in place, the people necessary to push a better bill through Congress were not there. Period. Numerically it looked possible, but ideologically it wasn't going to happen. You talk about me being the reason why this country "goes to the right"? Ask yourself, how do you think our country would visualize the Democrats if they pushed for a really progressive bill in the Senate and failed?

you'd remember that, if you read my posts, rather than trying to make them be strawmen of what you want them to be.

First off, son... you don't even read mine so don't tell me what I don't make of yours. Hypocrite. Also, is "strawmen" the new repetitive buzzword you're trying to apply to me? Wake me when you're through with the cheesy attempts at labeling, and when you're through trying to push your ideology as a fact around here.

I never claimed to be original, and adding my picture does not make me any less anonymous.

I beg to differ.

I don't see you posting your name and address, not that it would matter if you did.

Alas, I'm still doing more to let people know who I am than you are about yourself. Until you can follow my footsteps in this regard, your criticisms about my conduct don't mean a damn thing.

And since you missed my point, I said you're not engaging with my arguments, not "the real me".

And you talk about me not getting it...
I already explained the twist. Reread it if you care to figure it out for I'm not repeating myself.

We've been going at this for days and you've yet to even figure out my real stance on this issue. Last time... we agree on many things. We just don't agree on the methodology that was used and the end result of the current bill. That doesn't make you right or wrong, nor does it make you any kind of authority to judge my actions on this subject matter. Period.