the idea that sex is a gift that women give to men,

[Kotchanski]

I'm not on some male agenda to make women submissive out of fear that they'll change someone for the worse.

Sorry, but what does your intent have to do with any of this? Nothing what so ever...

It doesn't matter what you say, or what you mean, your actions in this thread will make women feel they can't say no without being manipulative game playing bitches.

 

[Deek]

Oh, and I noticed you ignored the girlfriend question...

Yeah, I did, because it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand, and it was obviously thrown out as an attempt to insult me. Throwing insults at someone you're arguing with is a pretty barbaric thing to do and it just makes you look really stupid so I suggest you reassess how you argue.

I'm talking about how people influence people. Not how men influence women, or women influence men. Because there should be no distinction right? If you're equal to us?

Basic logic
People get pleasure from something
that something happens to be coming from another person
People make the other person mad or not in the mood to give that pleasure
the person pays the price
with a punishment
the punishment is not receiving that pleasure

It could be two men for all I care. Maybe one of the men really loves apples but the only way for him to get apples is through this other guy. He makes him mad and he's cut off from his apple supply. Altering his behavior so that he can get apples.

 

[rtg]

Yeah, I did, because it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand, and it was obviously thrown out as an attempt to insult me. Throwing insults at someone you're arguing with is a pretty barbaric thing to do and it just makes you look really stupid so I suggest you reassess how you argue.

I'm talking about how people influence people. Not how men influence women, or women influence men. Because there should be no distinction right? If you're equal to us?

Basic logic
People get pleasure from something
that something happens to be coming from another person
People make the other person mad or not in the mood to give that pleasure
the person pays the price
with a punishment
the punishment is not receiving that pleasure

It could be two men for all I care. Maybe one of the men really loves apples but the only way for him to get apples is through this other guy. He makes him mad and he's cut off from his apple supply. Altering his behavior so that he can get apples.

Actually, it has everything to do with the topic because most of us are talking about how we act in a relationship.

Perhaps you feel as though it is a punishment if you are denied sex, if the other person is upset. Myself, on the other hand, including a lot of others that possess maturity, will not generally feel as though we are being punished...we accept that the other person is feeling mad or upset and that they will have engage in said pleasure activities when they are ready.

 

[Deek]

Sorry, but what does your intent have to do with any of this? Nothing what so ever...

It doesn't matter what you say, or what you mean, your actions in this thread will make women feel they can't say no without being manipulative game playing bitches.

All people manipulate other people to get things they want. It's nothing new or nothing special. It doesn't make you a bad person, and it doesn't make you a good person. It's how you survive and it's basic instinct.

 

[Deek]

Actually, it has everything to do with the topic because most of us are talking about how we act in a relationship.

Perhaps you feel as though it is a punishment if you are denied sex, if the other person is upset. Myself, on the other hand, including a lot of others that possess maturity, will not generally feel as though we are being punished...we accept that the other person is feeling mad or upset and that they will have engage in said pleasure activities when they are ready.

Relationships can come in multiple forms.

Two friends are in a relationship that isn't sexual (probably), but they still influence each other in the same ways.

 

[ManlyBanisters]

And no, I've already addressed this multiple times, in fact, it was in my original post. You don't have to fuck a man whenever he wants to fuck. I'm just saying when you do that it influences his behavior. That's all I've been saying for the entire conversation. I'm not on some male agenda to make women submissive out of fear that they'll change someone for the worse.

But what you are completely failing to grasp is that the 'no sex' outcome is also a negative for the woman. So by your own logic I am punishing myself for being mad at him because I am also denying myself sex - therefore surely this self inflicted punishment should cause me to modify my own behaviour and eventually I'll never get pissed off at a man I want to have sex with. Bollocks!! Steaming, sweaty, day-old-jock-strap bollocks!

It could be two men for all I care. Maybe one of the men really loves apples but the only way for him to get apples is through this other guy. He makes him mad and he's cut off from his apple supply. Altering his behavior so that he can get apples.

Word to the wise - some men fuck each other too. :wink:

Suddenly it's not about women and men, suddenly because a bunch of us jumped your case it is about people. That's not what you said. You said the woman was punishing the man by not having sex with him - whether she intended it as a punishment or not. See above - there's a down side for the woman not getting fucked too.

 

[rtg]

But what you are completely failing to grasp is that the 'no sex' outcome is also a negative for the woman. So by your own logic I am punishing myself for being mad at him because I am also denying myself sex - therefore surely this self inflicted punishment should cause me to modify my own behaviour and eventually I'll never get pissed off at a man I want to have sex with. Bollocks!! Steaming, sweaty, day-old-jock-strap bollocks!



Word to the wise - some men fuck each other too. :wink:

Suddenly it's not about women and men, suddenly because a bunch of us jumped your case it is about people. That's not what you said. You said the woman was punishing the man by not having sex with him - whether she intended it as a punishment or not. See above - there's a down side for the woman not getting fucked too.

+1

I wish I was as good at explaining things as you haha.

 

[rtg]

Relationships can come in multiple forms.

Two friends are in a relationship that isn't sexual (probably), but they still influence each other in the same ways.

This is true, but I believe that we are talking about a sexual relationship here. At least, I have been.

 

[Deek]

But what you are completely failing to grasp is that the 'no sex' outcome is also a negative for the woman. So by your own logic I am punishing myself for being mad at him because I am also denying myself sex - therefore surely this self inflicted punishment should cause me to modify my own behaviour and eventually I'll never get pissed off at a man I want to have sex with. Bollocks!! Steaming, sweaty, day-old-jock-strap bollocks!

Yeah, you're punishing yourself. It's not beyond people to punish themselves to encourage behavior. Basketball players do it all the time by wearing rubber bands on their wrists and stinging themselves when they mess up. Punishment ceases behavior, so whatever you're punishing yourself for will cease if the punishment is harsh enough for you.

Word to the wise - some men fuck each other too. :wink:

Suddenly it's not about women and men, suddenly because a bunch of us jumped your case it is about people. That's not what you said. You said the woman was punishing the man by not having sex with him - whether she intended it as a punishment or not. See above - there's a down side for the woman not getting fucked too.

I'm aware, I was just trying to explain it in a different light, because obviously when sex is involved people think behavior is entirely different.

Men and women are people correct? They both get punished and they both suffer for it. They both change behavior in order to get it again. What is fueling a woman to make up with her boyfriend after he pissed her off? Obviously many factors are involved, but lust is definitely one of them.

 

[petite]

This entire idea is weird to me, bizarrely narcissistic. I suppose that if someone laughs, it isn't a natural reaction, that's a behavior modification technique to make someone else behave more humorously, every smile is a technique to increase positive behaviors in others? Bullshit. If that were true then people would not show facial expressions or express any emotions in private or towards inanimate objects. I suppose showing frustration when one's car tire goes flat is intended to be a lesson to teach it to stop doing that? This perspective on human behavior and motivations is so strange...

 

[rtg]

Yeah, you're punishing yourself. It's not beyond people to punish themselves to encourage behavior. Basketball players do it all the time by wearing rubber bands on their wrists and stinging themselves when they mess up. Punishment ceases behavior, so whatever you're punishing yourself for will cease if the punishment is harsh enough for you.

I don't see how these are at all related.

What is fueling a woman to make up with her boyfriend after he pissed her off? Obviously many factors are involved, but lust is definitely one of them.

Pretty sure that lust and a desire to get laid doesn't usually come into my mind when I'm making up with my bf...

 

[Deek]

This is true, but I believe that we are talking about a sexual relationship here. At least, I have been.

sexual and non-sexual relationships aren't that different. You get something positive from the other person involved or the relationship wouldnt it exist. Be it their humor, their personality, or they open a doorway to acquiring more friends you get something from your friends and that's why they're your friends. They get something from you too.

 

[rtg]

This entire idea is weird to me, bizarrely narcissistic. I suppose that if someone laughs, it isn't a natural reaction, that's a behavior modification technique to make someone else behave more humorously, every smile is a technique to increase positive behaviors in others? Bullshit. If that were true then people would not show facial expressions or express any emotions in private or towards inanimate objects. I suppose showing frustration when one's car tire goes flat is intended to be a lesson to teach it to stop doing that? This perspective on human behavior and motivations is so strange...

:35:

 

[Deek]

This entire idea is weird to me, bizarrely narcissistic. I suppose that if someone laughs, it isn't a natural reaction, that's a behavior modification technique to make someone else behave more humorously, every smile is a technique to increase positive behaviors in others? Bullshit. If that were true then people would not show facial expressions or express any emotions in private or towards inanimate objects. I suppose showing frustration when one's car tire goes flat is intended to be a lesson to teach it to stop doing that? This perspective on human behavior and motivations is so strange...

Yes, in an attempt to make the tire do what they want they act frustrated towards it. It doesn't have to be rational. Many people do irrational things like that all the time. You've been conditioned to act frustrated to express your distaste for something since you were born.

Everything people do is a big chain or behaviors they use in an attempt to get things they want, and keep things they don't want away.

 

[rtg]

sexual and non-sexual relationships aren't that different. You get something positive from the other person involved or the relationship wouldnt it exist. Be it their humor, their personality, or they open a doorway to acquiring more friends you get something from your friends and that's why they're your friends. They get something from you too.

Umm...I'm not friends with my friends because I get something from them. I suppose you think that the fact that I enjoy their company and that they make me laugh and happy is somehow some kind of manipulative relationship? :crazy2::crazy2:

 

[Deek]

Umm...I'm not friends with my friends because I get something from them. I suppose you think that the fact that I enjoy their company and that they make me laugh and happy is somehow some kind of manipulative relationship? :crazy2::crazy2:

Yeah, it is. They make you happy, they make you laugh, you enjoy their company.

You get
happiness
laughter
and enjoyment

from your friends

 

[ManlyBanisters]

Yeah, you're punishing yourself. It's not beyond people to punish themselves to encourage behavior. Basketball players do it all the time by wearing rubber bands on their wrists and stinging themselves when they mess up. Punishment ceases behavior, so whatever you're punishing yourself for will cease if the punishment is harsh enough for you.

That's not the same thing. The basketball player wants to encourage himself not to fuck up (oh, and incidentally, loads of people use the snappy band technique to modify their own behaviour - anorexics, for example). But as I say, it isn't the same thing at all - in your scenario the bb player is trying to modify his behaviour to a more desired behaviour. One partner 'denying' the other sex after being annoyed is not trying to encourage a specific behaviour in him/herself. Also, the 'punishment' of not getting sex by denying it to his/her partner should, by your logic as I said, result in that person no longer getting mad. That just does not bear up to the circumstantial evidence of every sexual relationship I have ever witnessed.

I'm aware, I was just trying to explain it in a different light, because obviously when sex is involved people think behavior is entirely different.

But in the 'apples' example the apple supplier does not cut off his own apple supply when he refuses to give his friend apples. So it is not the same as sex. And therefore the 2 are incomparable.

Men and women are people correct? They both get punished and they both suffer for it. They both change behavior in order to get it again. What is fueling a woman to make up with her boyfriend after he pissed her off? Obviously many factors are involved, but lust is definitely one of them.

For everyone? Really? You state that so matter-of-factly.

Look, face it, sonny - you tried to sound clever but have ended up arguing yourself into a corner trying to apply a generality to a situation that is almost infinite in variation and specifics. I suggest you cut your losses.

 

[Pierced1953]

I'd say it's complimenting each other.

 

[rtg]

Umm...I'm not friends with my friends because I get something from them. I suppose you think that the fact that I enjoy their company and that they make me laugh and happy is somehow some kind of manipulative relationship? :crazy2::crazy2:

Yeah, it is. They make you happy, they make you laugh, you enjoy their company.

You get
happiness
laughter
and enjoyment

from your friends

This is probably one of the most fucked up things I have ever heard.

I actually just feel sorry for you.

 

[Deek]

That's not the same thing. The basketball player wants to encourage himself not to fuck up (oh, and incidentally, loads of people use the snappy band technique to modify their own behaviour - anorexics, for example). But as I say, it isn't the same thing at all - in your scenario the bb player is trying to modify his behaviour to a more desired behaviour. One partner 'denying' the other sex after being annoyed is not trying to encourage a specific behaviour in him/herself. Also, the 'punishment' of not getting sex by denying it to his/her partner should, by your logic as I said, result in that person no longer getting mad. That just does not bear up to the circumstantial evidence of every sexual relationship I have ever witnessed.

punishment doesn't promote desired behaviors. When the basketball player uses the rubber band on himself, it's because he's done something badly and doesn't want to do it again. It ceases the bad behavior, but it doesn't encourage anything new or better.

But in the 'apples' example the apple supplier does not cut off his own apple supply when he refuses to give his friend apples. So it is not the same as sex. And therefore the 2 are incomparable.

I grant that my analogy is flawed

For everyone? Really? You state that so matter-of-factly.

Look, face it, sonny - you tried to sound clever but have ended up arguing yourself into a corner trying to apply a generality to a situation that is almost infinite in variation and specifics. I suggest you cut your losses.

Well, what separates a friendship from a sexual relationship? In many cases it's sex. You dont fuck your friends, but you fuck your boyfriend.