The Improbable WTC 7 Collapse

[Nitrofiend]

This is the thread that never ends... it just goes on and on my friends...

On a serious note, 160 IQ (I refuse to include the first part as I feel you transcend that description) has hit it right on the head. Now, all of you conspiracists come line on up and tell us what "holes" you see in the official report. It seems pretty straightforward and logical to me.

 

[madame_zora]

Regarding this, they classify a lot of stupid crap. We don't even know what the budget alloted the Central Intelligence Agency each year is. They receive an undisclosed amount of tax payer dollars. How is that beneficial to the American people? Yet this has been the case for long before Bush came to office. and this administration is among the most secretive and non-transparent in recent history.

I hesitated to even post my dislike of bush even though it is well known here because I knew automatically that that is the one and only thing people would focus in on, and it's just not so. See, I didn't start out hating him as soon as I saw his face, I GREW to dislike him based on his performance, which I feel is an important distinction.

While I do understand that you are not defending him in any way, my problem with this administration is what I bolded in your post- they keep too much shit secret, and it's stuff that turns out to be detrimental to them once it is finally revealed. Think about how many times they've claimed to have "no prior knowledge" in cases like the Valerie Plame incident, the more recent Foley scandal, the previous reports on the severity of need to reinforce the dams before Katrina hit, all the way back to the 9/11 reports. It's not just that they are asleep at the wheel, it's that they intentionally ignore things they don't want to be bothered with.

I despise bush BECAUSE of his gross incompetence, but not all his advisors are as stupid as he is personally (Karl Rove and Cheney are certainly not stupid). bush's stupidity is a means to and end for them, and as I said, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to just follow the money all the way to Halliburton. The obscene shape that the Iraqi police academy is in ALREADY underscores the fact that this is a money-making fiasco, regardless of what anyone believes about how or why it started. I just happen to be more skeptical than most, but damn it all if skepticism isn't often warranted. I'll stand by my assertion that is it here.

I can't help but think back to what was happening at that time. bush senior was in a meeting with the Carlyle Group where Bin Laden's family are members. dumbya himself was reading a story about goats to some school kids when he was told of the attacks, we all saw Farenheit (please spare me your disgust with the whole movie, I'm talking about a scene that was filmed not knowing Micheal Moore would be using it later). I didn't see a "Holy shit!" expression on bush's face- did you? I'm not saying that means he was complicit (although I AM of the opinion that he knew of the possibility, as we SAW him being told about it, despite having lied that the conversation had taken place, nigga please) but he sure didn't look very shocked. Had I been in his place and honestly had NO IDEA that something of that nature was in the works, I would have shit my pants- I wouldn't have kept calmly reading a story. News like that would have interrupted a playtime photo op for me.

 

[rob_just_rob]

It seems pretty straightforward and logical to me.

It's easy to be straightforward and logical when you don't actually say anything.

 

[agnslz]

It's easy to be straightforward and logical when you don't actually say anything.

It's even easier to sound crazy when you say too much!

 

[B_NineInchCock_160IQ]

To Zora: the my-pet-goat scene, considering exactly what was said to the president, and what was known about what was going on at the time (next to nothing), and the company that he was in (a bunch of school children), I wouldn't have expected that kind of reaction from Bush. It annoys me somewhat when Bill Maher and other liberals (I like Bill Maher in general) harp on this over and over as if it was in the president's power to do anything at that moment. He didn't have all the information about what was going on, and even if he did, other people were already trying to respond to the situation. Bush's rapid intervention would not have changed anything. Nor would losing his composure, jumping up and running out of a room filled with school children have helped anything, either. I don't know that I would have acted any differently in his shoes. and I don't know either how much we can really read into his reaction to determine how well he knew what was going on. Already we've seen two very different interpretations of the same scene, yours and mine.

I agree with your criticisms of the administration. It peeves me, too. I'm hoping that they're embarrassed at the polls this year and in 2008. I don't necessarily believe the Democrats are inherently much better, but there's a reason that our government was designed to allow power to change hands every so often. These guys have had too much of it for far too long. It's gone to their heads and any ideals they may or may not have had upon entering office have since been eschewed. The conservatives in this country need to be seriously and spectacularly humbled by a series of crushing defeats at the polls I think before they get their act together and stop acting like their own farts don't stink.

I still don't believe they planned 9/11.

 

[madame_zora]

NIC, I guess I would have like to see a raised eyebrow, or SOME expression cross his face other than confusion or disinterest. I wasn't suggesting he should flap around like a faerie, but I would have expected him to excuse himself from the crowd and explain that there was a pressing matter that required his attention. I would have considered that a good call from a world leader when he's told a 747 just crashed into the WTC. My only point is that I find Americans to be too often lacking in willingness to make common sense judgements. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck, chances are it's a duck. That's a stretch I'm pretty willing to make. It frustrates me that our politicians have gotten so good at confuscating the truth that they tell us something like "jello" and we forget what we were even mad about.

I'm mad because this is EITHER the result of extreme stupidity or intentional deception, and I can't discover which for certain because the evidence is being withheld. What are we SUPPOSED to think? Cover-ups make people look guilty, it's one of those "looks like a duck" things, I just can't help it. Betcha a dollar I'm right on this one though. Despite their best efforts, people are just not very confusing. They're usually exactly what they appear to be- stupid and selfish.

 

[B_NineInchCock_160IQ]

I'd take you up on that bet except I would never get that dollar even if I was right. If at some point in the future some *valid* proof that the Bush administration was involved in the terrorist attacks of 9/11 comes out, then I would be proven wrong. If that proof never surfaces, then the conspiracy theorists will still argue that there's information being withheld. No amount of proof will convince them, because they're already convinced that there's some kind of cover-up. The same way that Christians believe any proof against their faith is somehow misinformation being put out there by Satan. There's simply no way to argue against that.

 

[tripod]

Most people with a "normal" brain will realize that 100% of the culpable information contained within State secrets will never be released. I would like to say something from my conspiracy theorist mouth that comes from the bottom of my heart.

I do believe, that if there was any conspiracy involving the government in 9/11, that the members of this conspiracy would have been acting on what they thought were the countries best interests. If the CIA did blow up, or let someone blow up, or even encouraged someone to blow up the trade towers, they were just attempting to preserving America.

The Right wingers have been thinking that the liberals have been "gutting" the military and softening our defenses for decades. The Christians think the liberals will destroy mankind with it's decadance. The CIA and FBI think they are fighting terrorism with their hands tied because they don't have instant access to every single bit of information about you and I. The Republicans would chew off their fucking arms if it meant certain chances of perpetual electoral victory.

If there was a conspiracy, it would be these heartfelt "conservative" beliefs that could allow for Good Americans to do something that was decidedly "Not Good". It happens all the time. Great evils have always been enabled by the hands of the "righteous".