The Irish, they say ... Non!

[dong20]

Kinda lets Brown off the hook, only not really.

Ireland rejects treaty in blow for EU

 

[220483]

DID they? but that was expected, NO?

so NO LISBON treaty, and no MORE POWER to the central europe...
SAD, but real! after all the treaty didn't meant nothing to the majority of people!

 

[Drifterwood]

Aren't we at peace?

 

[220483]

is the WORLD at peace?

PEOPLE in PORTUGAL got SOOOO sad due to the fact that the treaty had their capital's name: LISBON...
so, we're in a metaphorical WAR due to a treaty's NAME!
sad sad sad...

 

[joshunot]

Oh yes Brown is off the hook, he is incapable of making an effective decision, always relies on others to do his dirty work. Wouldn't like to be the one who changes his diper!

 

[ManlyBanisters]

Well - I kinda hoped that wouldn't happened and kinda guessed it would. I think it is a shame that people are saying No to a 'deeper' Europe. I'm not saying the proposed changes are the only or perfect solution - but I don't think people were voting on that, I think they were voting on the bigger principle.

Those that know what they were voting for at all. People were underinformed - that was half the problem. When I was home recently I read through a lot of the press on this and really there was so much analysis of non-specifics and what-ifs and fuck all actual details of what the Treaty means (would have meant?) for Europe or for Ireland. When presented with something that you don't understand not agreeing to it is normally the response.

I dunno - I think we all (Europe wide) need to get the fuck over this tendancy towards Nationalism that keeps the EU from advancing. I mean really - look at the States. From an outsider's perspective I see the individual states keeping a distinct identity and legislature (partial) while being part of a Federal state. I see Americans proud to be part of the country and not losing the individual identity of their own state. Europe should be no different. We have a lot to gain and very little to lose.

 

[joshunot]

ManlyBanisters has her own opinions on this also and she is quite frankly welcome to them. It is true that few of us know the real or full content of the so called Lisbon 'Treaty'. would it have been different had we been allowed proper open consultation, I for one hope and think not.

 

[ManlyBanisters]

Why?

 

[Xcuze]

You can't compare America to Europe! Europe will never be united in that way; Eurovision song contest sums it up gloriously.

 

[ManlyBanisters]

I didn't compare them - if anything I contrasted them and expressed a wish that Europe could be more like the US (in that regard). Why do you think Europe will never be united in that way? Never is a strong word.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

I dunno - I think we all (Europe wide) need to get the fuck over this tendency towards Nationalism that keeps the EU from advancing. I mean really - look at the States. From an outsider's perspective I see the individual states keeping a distinct identity and legislature (partial) while being part of a Federal state. I see Americans proud to be part of the country and not losing the individual identity of their own state. Europe should be no different. We have a lot to gain and very little to lose.

I think you underestimate the weakness of American states. They have nothing like the autonomy of individual EU states. Or at least that's my impression.
Europe will never be as centralized as the United States is.

 

[dong20]

You can't compare America to Europe! Europe will never be united in that way;

Yes, you can. Think about it.

 

[joshunot]

Why? Well don't want to see a Federal States of Europe. Don't get me wrong, I love 'em all but I simply am not European.
Used to like the Eurovision xcuze, but it's become a meaningless forum except I'm not quite sure, for what.

 

[ManlyBanisters]

See my above post - why never?

I don't see the states as being autonomous - I don't think the countries of Europe need to be anywhere nears as autonomous as they are. I would like to see a United States of Europe - I don't think I'm in the majority in that opinion by any means. But I think the world (in future terms) needs a USE and I think the countries of Europe would be better off economically as states in that kind of federation.

That's just me - I understand it isn't mainstream.

 

[Mem]

I think you underestimate the weakness of American states. They have nothing like the autonomy of individual EU states. Or at least that's my impression.
Europe will never be as centralized as the United States is.

You are comparing Apples to Oranges. The US is a country. Europe is a group of counties divided by different customs, nationalities and languages.

 

[ManlyBanisters]

Why? Well don't want to see a Federal States of Europe. Don't get me wrong, I love 'em all but I simply am not European.

But why?

Did Rupert Murdoch tell you so - or have you formed your own opinions?

 

[Xcuze]

I didn't compare them - if anything I contrasted them and expressed a wish that Europe could be more like the US (in that regard). Why do you think Europe will never be united in that way? Never is a strong word.

NEVER NEVER NEVER! we have nothing in common, simple as. :tongue:

ps; you are, on other matters, a lot smarter than I ever assumed. Enjoy your posts(but on THIS subject you're bullshitting with false hope :tongue

 

[ManlyBanisters]

You are comparing Apples to Oranges. The US is a country. Europe is a group of counties divided by different customs, nationalities and languages.

The States used to be like that - why wouldn't Europe evolve in the same way?

 

[joshunot]

There she goes again, who is Rupert Murdock?

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

You are comparing Apples to Oranges. The US is a country. Europe is a group of counties divided by different customs, nationalities and languages.

You are making my point.