The Jocular Persuasion

[Northland]

I used the term in another thread, and am interested in feedback.

Will this take off as the replacement for queer and/or gay?

'Horace wasn't interested in women, either for dating or for sex, though he did find they made wonderful friends and accepted his makeup and fashion advice without fail. However that's where it ended for Horace, being that he was of the jocular persuasion."


What do you think. does it have potential?

 

[D_Martin van Burden]

Why would someone "jocular" know all that much about fashion and makeup? I think your term is good if you're talking about a dude that goes a little low on two-hand-touch football. Know what I mean?

 

[DaveyR]

I'm more interested in finding out more about Horace. Who is he? :tongue::smile:

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

I love Horace but I love "Fond of fancy cakes" and "Casual".

 

[curious_george420]

does horace have an uncut beercan? if so, i'm totally unnterested.

 

[BigDallasDick8x6]

You're asking two separate questions. Does it have potential? Yes. I think among literary / intellectual types into clever turns of phrase it could gain a measure of acceptance.

Could it ever replace gay/queer? No.

Dee Blackthorne -- I liked your "a little low on two hand touch football."

Hilaire -- I love "fond of fancy cakes." I'm going to start using that one.

My gosh we're clever! We should start a group for Clever Turns of Phrase and we'd be the first four members and we could post witty and amusing (at least to us) things all day long.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

If you want to indicate an Uber-Gay, rich and well connected an all, then I also like "Has lovely Lambrequins" , a Lambrequin being- http://www.idh.ru/aphom/idh_lambrequin_jabot_02.jpg

You're asking two separate questions. Does it have potential? Yes. I think among literary / intellectual types into clever turns of phrase it could gain a measure of acceptance.

Could it ever replace gay/queer? No.

Dee Blackthorne -- I liked your "a little low on two hand touch football."

Hilaire -- I love "fond of fancy cakes." I'm going to start using that one.

My gosh we're clever! We should start a group for Clever Turns of Phrase and we'd be the first four members and we could post witty and amusing (at least to us) things all day long.

 

[BigDallasDick8x6]

Thanks for helping to expand my vocabulary. That's a great Scrabble word. So are you calling the swags or the tassles "lambrequins"? Just wanting to make sure I get it right.

Here is what Wikipedia says:
Mantling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

Thanks for helping to expand my vocabulary. That's a great Scrabble word. So are you calling the swags or the tassles "lambrequins"? Just wanting to make sure I get it right.

Here is what Wikipedia says:
Mantling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ah very interesting, yes that is the original meaning of the term, or at least one use of the term.

When used to describe drapes, it means the ornate pelmet ( which has a specific style of design ) and swagged curtains. Not the tassling. :redface::tongue:

 

[Sergeant_Torpedo]

Victorians called them buggers, in the drawing room they refered to homosexuals as inverts. At my school we said, "he plays on the all boys team" with no malice intended (or taken please note) and gay fro Victorians meant prostitution. Words and meanings change.

 

[Calboner]

I used the term in another thread, and am interested in feedback.

Will this take off as the replacement for queer and/or gay?

'Horace wasn't interested in women, either for dating or for sex, though he did find they made wonderful friends and accepted his makeup and fashion advice without fail. However that's where it ended for Horace, being that he was of the jocular persuasion."


What do you think. does it have potential?

You want feedback? I'll give you feedback. I think your little invention is complete and utter shite. It is an irritating, asinine piece of pretentious cutesiness. It also confuses the meaning of a perfectly good word. "Jocular" means "humorous" or "given to joking," and thus is not in any way equivalent to the word "gay" even in its older descriptive meaning. "Of the ____ persuasion" describes a person's religious confession, so using it to refer to sexual preference is a piece of prissiness. It is only in the Canadian sense that I hope to see this phrase "take off."

So that's what I think.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

You want feedback? I'll give you feedback. I think your little invention is complete and utter shite. It is an irritating, asinine piece of pretentious cutesiness. It also confuses the meaning of a perfectly good word. "Jocular" means "humorous" or "given to joking," and thus is not in any way equivalent to the word "gay" even in its older descriptive meaning. "Of the ____ persuasion" describes a person's religious confession, so using it to refer to sexual preference is a piece of prissiness. It is only in the Canadian sense that I hope to see this phrase "take off."

So that's what I think.

Cor blimey, that's telling him ! :tongue:

 

[pitloverfl]

While we're talking about ways to refer to homosexuals, I'll take a moment to highly recommend the movie that gave rise to the wide-spread popular modern usage of the word "gay". For those of you who haven't seen it, Bringing Up Baby is a very funny slapstick romp starring Cary Grant and Katharine Hepburn from 1938.

The term "gay" itself arises after Kate's character tricks Grant's into wearing her frilly robe after stealing his clothes and sending them off to be cleaned (she's trying to convince everyone he's crazy so he can't leave the house, giving him another chance to fall in love with her). When asked about his odd choice of clothes, Grant's character responds, "Because I just went gay all of a sudden!" Evidently, the line wasn't in the script. It's particularly interesting since it has been widely speculated that Cary Grant was gay or at least bi.

 

[ManlyBanisters]

You want feedback? I'll give you feedback. I think your little invention is complete and utter shite. It is an irritating, asinine piece of pretentious cutesiness. It also confuses the meaning of a perfectly good word. "Jocular" means "humorous" or "given to joking," and thus is not in any way equivalent to the word "gay" even in its older descriptive meaning. "Of the ____ persuasion" describes a person's religious confession, so using it to refer to sexual preference is a piece of prissiness. It is only in the Canadian sense that I hope to see this phrase "take off."

So that's what I think.

Deary me! Someone ate grumpy porridge this morning! :smile:

For starters 'of the ____ persuasion' is NOT just used in a religious context. I've often heard it used in reference to sexuality. Gay friends telling each other a certain man is of the 'wrong' persuasion (meaning he's straight and therefore unlikely to be 'up for it'), straight people using 'the other persuasion' to describe homosexuality.

Also, 'jocular' and 'gay' (in the old sense) are not that far apart at all, both pertain to merriment. There's nothing about the word 'gay' that is specific to homosexuals, considering the general attitude to homosexuals when that term was coined it wouldn't surprise me if homosexuals were, on average, less 'gay' than heterosexuals!

I think it is a pleasant euphemism.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

While we're talking about ways to refer to homosexuals, I'll take a moment to highly recommend the movie that gave rise to the wide-spread popular modern usage of the word "gay". For those of you who haven't seen it, Bringing Up Baby is a very funny slapstick romp starring Cary Grant and Katharine Hepburn from 1938.

The term "gay" itself arises after Kate's character tricks Grant's into wearing her frilly robe after stealing his clothes and sending them off to be cleaned (she's trying to convince everyone he's crazy so he can't leave the house, giving him another chance to fall in love with her). When asked about his odd choice of clothes, Grant's character responds, "Because I just went gay all of a sudden!" Evidently, the line wasn't in the script. It's particularly interesting since it has been widely speculated that Cary Grant was gay or at least bi.

Also, 'jocular' and 'gay' (in the old sense) are not that far apart at all, both pertain to merriment. There's nothing about the word 'gay' that is specific to homosexuals, considering the general attitude to homosexuals when that term was coined it wouldn't surprise me if homosexuals were, on average, less 'gay' than heterosexuals!

I think it is a pleasant euphemism.

As ManlyBanisters rightly points out, the term gay originally had the meaning, "Jolly", "lighthearted", "Fun" or even "giddy". When Carry Grant used it in the movie Bringing up Baby it's likely he meant it in that way, I say that because Bringing up Baby is such an early movie, if it had been 30 or even 20 years earlier I might buy that Cary was making a sly little double entendre, perhaps he was but I'm not convinced.

I am convinced that Cary Grant was at least Bisexual though, and apparently he had a big ole dong too, which is rather gratifying :tongue:


I agree with you Manly, "persuassion" is commonly used to describe sexualilty, and it's perfectly legitimate to translate Gay to mean jocular and thereby come to Jocular persuassion, it's a slightly middle class sounding politeness and not at all unpleasant as euphemisms go, better than Chutney Ferret anyway LOL

 

[pitloverfl]

As ManlyBanisters rightly points out, the term gay originally had the meaning, "Jolly", "lighthearted", "Fun" or even "giddy". When Carry Grant used it in the movie Bringing up Baby it's likely he meant it in that way, I say that because Bringing up Baby is such an early movie, if it had been 30 or even 20 years earlier I might buy that Cary was making a sly little double entendre, perhaps he was but I'm not convinced.

While all that's true, by the 18th & 19th centuries, "gay" had taken on a sexual connotation, albeit not a homosexual one. It was often used colloquially to mean "randy" or "of ill repute". A "gay bloke" might be a womanizer, for instance, and a "gay lass" a prostitute.

I don't doubt that Cary Grant used the term to mean "jolly", but given the broader colloquial meaning of the word, its association with dressing in drag linked it with the effeminate homosexual stereotype and it began to pop up with increasing frequency in the broader media throughout the 40s with its current meaning.

Nonetheless, it's a very funny movie. One of my favorites.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

While all that's true, by the 18th & 19th centuries, "gay" had taken on a sexual connotation, albeit not a homosexual one. It was often used colloquially to mean "randy" or "of ill repute". A "gay bloke" might be a womanizer, for instance, and a "gay lass" a prostitute.

I don't doubt that Cary Grant used the term to mean "jolly", but given the broader colloquial meaning of the word, its association with dressing in drag linked it with the effeminate homosexual stereotype and it began to pop up with increasing frequency in the broader media throughout the 40s with its current meaning.

Nonetheless, it's a very funny movie. One of my favorites.

I love it too, it has me in stitches :tongue:


I still say that even if gay could mean a "Good-time girl" or "Ladies Man" the meaning was distinctly less sexual than our own highly sexualised era would have us think it might be, casual sex was highly frowned upon in the mid twentieth century and the meaning you're referring to was a lot more innocent than it sounds, this was a culture in which a "slut" could be a women who accepted a drink from a strange man, or who wore too much lipstick after all.

The meaning you refer to was not common in the 18th century, at least not in england, if it was used in that way then it was being used in a very oblique and extremely euphemistic fashion. Sexual morés were infact much more relaxed in Georgian england ( I can't say for sure about the rest of the english speaking world ) and a variety of words existed during that period to refer to Gay men, most common being "Molly" or even "Bugger".

Gay didn't become that common as a term for homosexuals until the late 50s and 60s. Though it's use before then is attested, it would not have been clear to everyone who heard it what was being meant if it were being used to mean something sexual let alone something homosexual.