The Jocular Persuasion

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Northland, Dec 2, 2009.

  1. Northland

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    6,082
    Likes Received:
    4
    I used the term in another thread, and am interested in feedback.

    Will this take off as the replacement for queer and/or gay?

    'Horace wasn't interested in women, either for dating or for sex, though he did find they made wonderful friends and accepted his makeup and fashion advice without fail. However that's where it ended for Horace, being that he was of the jocular persuasion."


    What do you think. does it have potential?
     
  2. D_Martin van Burden

    D_Martin van Burden Account Disabled

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2002
    Messages:
    3,365
    Likes Received:
    6
    Why would someone "jocular" know all that much about fashion and makeup? I think your term is good if you're talking about a dude that goes a little low on two-hand-touch football. Know what I mean?
     
  3. DaveyR

    DaveyR Retired Moderator
    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2006
    Messages:
    11,908
    Likes Received:
    8
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Northumberland
    I'm more interested in finding out more about Horace. Who is he? :tongue::smile:
     
  4. D_Tim McGnaw

    D_Tim McGnaw Account Disabled

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2009
    Messages:
    7,317
    Likes Received:
    8
    I love Horace but I love "Fond of fancy cakes" and "Casual".
     
  5. curious_george420

    curious_george420 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2009
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    0
    does horace have an uncut beercan? if so, i'm totally unnterested.
     
  6. BigDallasDick8x6

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2006
    Messages:
    4,012
    Albums:
    3
    Likes Received:
    163
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dallas TX (North Oak Cliff)
    You're asking two separate questions. Does it have potential? Yes. I think among literary / intellectual types into clever turns of phrase it could gain a measure of acceptance.

    Could it ever replace gay/queer? No.

    Dee Blackthorne -- I liked your "a little low on two hand touch football."

    Hilaire -- I love "fond of fancy cakes." I'm going to start using that one.

    My gosh we're clever! We should start a group for Clever Turns of Phrase and we'd be the first four members and we could post witty and amusing (at least to us) things all day long.
     
  7. D_Tim McGnaw

    D_Tim McGnaw Account Disabled

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2009
    Messages:
    7,317
    Likes Received:
    8
    If you want to indicate an Uber-Gay, rich and well connected an all, then I also like "Has lovely Lambrequins" , a Lambrequin being- http://www.idh.ru/aphom/idh_lambrequin_jabot_02.jpg





     
  8. BigDallasDick8x6

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2006
    Messages:
    4,012
    Albums:
    3
    Likes Received:
    163
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dallas TX (North Oak Cliff)
    Thanks for helping to expand my vocabulary. That's a great Scrabble word. So are you calling the swags or the tassles "lambrequins"? Just wanting to make sure I get it right.

    Here is what Wikipedia says:
    Mantling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  9. D_Tim McGnaw

    D_Tim McGnaw Account Disabled

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2009
    Messages:
    7,317
    Likes Received:
    8

    Ah very interesting, yes that is the original meaning of the term, or at least one use of the term.

    When used to describe drapes, it means the ornate pelmet ( which has a specific style of design ) and swagged curtains. Not the tassling. :redface::tongue:
     
  10. Sergeant_Torpedo

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2006
    Messages:
    1,409
    Likes Received:
    4
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    UK
    Victorians called them buggers, in the drawing room they refered to homosexuals as inverts. At my school we said, "he plays on the all boys team" with no malice intended (or taken please note) and gay fro Victorians meant prostitution. Words and meanings change.
     
  11. Calboner

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    9,026
    Albums:
    5
    Likes Received:
    2,465
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA
    You want feedback? I'll give you feedback. I think your little invention is complete and utter shite. It is an irritating, asinine piece of pretentious cutesiness. It also confuses the meaning of a perfectly good word. "Jocular" means "humorous" or "given to joking," and thus is not in any way equivalent to the word "gay" even in its older descriptive meaning. "Of the ____ persuasion" describes a person's religious confession, so using it to refer to sexual preference is a piece of prissiness. It is only in the Canadian sense that I hope to see this phrase "take off."

    So that's what I think.
     
  12. D_Tim McGnaw

    D_Tim McGnaw Account Disabled

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2009
    Messages:
    7,317
    Likes Received:
    8

    Cor blimey, that's telling him ! :tongue:
     
  13. pitloverfl

    pitloverfl New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2009
    Messages:
    680
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    14
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Florida
    While we're talking about ways to refer to homosexuals, I'll take a moment to highly recommend the movie that gave rise to the wide-spread popular modern usage of the word "gay". For those of you who haven't seen it, Bringing Up Baby is a very funny slapstick romp starring Cary Grant and Katharine Hepburn from 1938.

    The term "gay" itself arises after Kate's character tricks Grant's into wearing her frilly robe after stealing his clothes and sending them off to be cleaned (she's trying to convince everyone he's crazy so he can't leave the house, giving him another chance to fall in love with her). When asked about his odd choice of clothes, Grant's character responds, "Because I just went gay all of a sudden!" Evidently, the line wasn't in the script. It's particularly interesting since it has been widely speculated that Cary Grant was gay or at least bi.
     
  14. ManlyBanisters

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2007
    Messages:
    12,807
    Likes Received:
    8
    Deary me! Someone ate grumpy porridge this morning! :smile:

    For starters 'of the ____ persuasion' is NOT just used in a religious context. I've often heard it used in reference to sexuality. Gay friends telling each other a certain man is of the 'wrong' persuasion (meaning he's straight and therefore unlikely to be 'up for it'), straight people using 'the other persuasion' to describe homosexuality.

    Also, 'jocular' and 'gay' (in the old sense) are not that far apart at all, both pertain to merriment. There's nothing about the word 'gay' that is specific to homosexuals, considering the general attitude to homosexuals when that term was coined it wouldn't surprise me if homosexuals were, on average, less 'gay' than heterosexuals!

    I think it is a pleasant euphemism.
     
  15. D_Tim McGnaw

    D_Tim McGnaw Account Disabled

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2009
    Messages:
    7,317
    Likes Received:
    8


    As ManlyBanisters rightly points out, the term gay originally had the meaning, "Jolly", "lighthearted", "Fun" or even "giddy". When Carry Grant used it in the movie Bringing up Baby it's likely he meant it in that way, I say that because Bringing up Baby is such an early movie, if it had been 30 or even 20 years earlier I might buy that Cary was making a sly little double entendre, perhaps he was but I'm not convinced.

    I am convinced that Cary Grant was at least Bisexual though, and apparently he had a big ole dong too, which is rather gratifying :tongue:


    I agree with you Manly, "persuassion" is commonly used to describe sexualilty, and it's perfectly legitimate to translate Gay to mean jocular and thereby come to Jocular persuassion, it's a slightly middle class sounding politeness and not at all unpleasant as euphemisms go, better than Chutney Ferret anyway LOL
     
  16. pitloverfl

    pitloverfl New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2009
    Messages:
    680
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    14
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Florida
    While all that's true, by the 18th & 19th centuries, "gay" had taken on a sexual connotation, albeit not a homosexual one. It was often used colloquially to mean "randy" or "of ill repute". A "gay bloke" might be a womanizer, for instance, and a "gay lass" a prostitute.

    I don't doubt that Cary Grant used the term to mean "jolly", but given the broader colloquial meaning of the word, its association with dressing in drag linked it with the effeminate homosexual stereotype and it began to pop up with increasing frequency in the broader media throughout the 40s with its current meaning.

    Nonetheless, it's a very funny movie. One of my favorites.
     
  17. D_Tim McGnaw

    D_Tim McGnaw Account Disabled

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2009
    Messages:
    7,317
    Likes Received:
    8

    I love it too, it has me in stitches :tongue:


    I still say that even if gay could mean a "Good-time girl" or "Ladies Man" the meaning was distinctly less sexual than our own highly sexualised era would have us think it might be, casual sex was highly frowned upon in the mid twentieth century and the meaning you're referring to was a lot more innocent than it sounds, this was a culture in which a "slut" could be a women who accepted a drink from a strange man, or who wore too much lipstick after all.

    The meaning you refer to was not common in the 18th century, at least not in england, if it was used in that way then it was being used in a very oblique and extremely euphemistic fashion. Sexual morés were infact much more relaxed in Georgian england ( I can't say for sure about the rest of the english speaking world ) and a variety of words existed during that period to refer to Gay men, most common being "Molly" or even "Bugger".

    Gay didn't become that common as a term for homosexuals until the late 50s and 60s. Though it's use before then is attested, it would not have been clear to everyone who heard it what was being meant if it were being used to mean something sexual let alone something homosexual.
     
    #17 D_Tim McGnaw, Dec 3, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2009
Draft saved Draft deleted