The Koch Brothers Exposed

[Jjz1109]

And there you have it, a whole lot of presumptions about something about which you obviously know little of.

True, charter schools could and DO work for people. And nothing wrong with CHOICE, just choose to pay for it (WE did). True some prefer to work in parochial and private schools, but some do because they aren't CERTIFIED to work elsewhere. True they provide a greater degree of discipline than their public counterparts, but that's only because they have greater leeway at choosing who the admit in the FIRST place, and more options at removing who they DO NOT, whereas public schools are hogtied by all kinds of limitations, litigation, and regulations regarding discipline, expulsions, promotion policies, etc.

Contrary to what YOU say above, public schools have to demonstrate (in this state at least) continuous academic progress above that of prior years, or face actions such as restructuring AND closure. Private schools don't even have to PUBLISH their test results.

And contrary to the usual bigoted stereotypes, there are [students] in public schools who "want to learn" too, bud. And teachers who want to teach.

Dude, don't even bring up bigoted stereotypes. Race was never brought up in the post. More dog whistles and "code" I presume, eh? If you read clearly, many of the parents vying for cherished few seats in charter schools are in underprivileged neighborhoods of the NYC area, as I mentioned. If anything, I would think you would support searching for more, and better, options for the underprivileged (oh right, you also don't want them to be exposed to any evil economic programs funded by the Koch brothers - - more of "the world according to bc?").

Your insistence to turn everything into a racial issue got tired a long, long, LONG time ago. Thought addressing the shortcomings of our educational system and discussing solutions and options was something everyone could agree on. There are several threads at the moment involving some form of race, saragon just started another one, so feel free to jump to one of those to spew more of your bs, accusations of racism (systematic, institutionalized, or whatever), and "nobody gets it but us" dribble.

 

[Jjz1109]

Here's the deal, Klingsor. One of the problems unions and others have with vouchers, evaluations, and what constitutes failing schools is that the non public schools aren't evaluated by the same criteria as public schools and public charters.

Fact is, many private and parochial schools pay teachers far less than their public school counterparts, with little or no benefits OR protections from unwarranted punitive actions from their respective administrations.

HERE'S a question for those here who've argued about the quality of MEDICAL care as related to a doctor's salary:

How many GOOD teachers do you expect would choose to work for a lot less than they COULD earn?

That all private and parochial schools are necessarily BETTER than any public school is an assumption, based upon the foolish premise that they'd HAVE to be because it's PAID for. Correction... some pay... some get "vouchers".

The objection being, private and parochial schools aren't required to PROVE it, via the SAME testing, performance goals, and statistical DATA, required of the public ones.

Apples and Oranges: Comparing Private and Public School Test Scores - Defining your ideal school | GreatSchools

And furthermore, what a slap to those teachers in private and parochial schools by making such a broad based assumption that they aren't of the same level of quality as a public school teacher. YOU are frigging amazing, and if an ignorant, irresponsible statement like that was implied towards a black person you'd be jumping up and down crying RACISM! How dare you denigrate their value! Now that's chutzpah!

Maybe private and parochial school teachers, like doctors who make work in less than glamorous or prestigious hospitals, do it for the love of their profession and for the reward of seeing the fruits of their efforts.

As so many love to post here, you've just put yourself out there for all to see. It is now documented. Can't wait to hear your spin on this one.

 

[b.c.]

Dude, don't even bring up bigoted stereotypes. Race was never brought up in the post. More dog whistles and "code" I presume, eh? If you read clearly, many of the parents vying for cherished few seats in charter schools are in underprivileged neighborhoods of the NYC area, as I mentioned. If anything, I would think you would support searching for more, and better, options for the underprivileged (oh right, you also don't want them to be exposed to any evil economic programs funded by the Koch brothers - - more of "the world according to bc?").

Your insistence to turn everything into a racial issue got tired a long, long, LONG time ago. Thought addressing the shortcomings of our educational system and discussing solutions and options was something everyone could agree on. There are several threads at the moment involving some form of race, saragon just started another one, so feel free to jump to one of those to spew more of your bs, accusations of racism (systematic, institutionalized, or whatever), and "nobody gets it but us" dribble.

And furthermore, what a slap to those teachers in private and parochial schools by making such a broad based assumption that they aren't of the same level of quality as a public school teacher. YOU are frigging amazing, and if an ignorant, irresponsible statement like that was implied towards a black person you'd be jumping up and down crying RACISM! How dare you denigrate their value! Now that's chutzpah!

Maybe private and parochial school teachers, like doctors who make work in less than glamorous or prestigious hospitals, do it for the love of their profession and for the reward of seeing the fruits of their efforts.

As so many love to post here, you've just put yourself out there for all to see. It is now documented. Can't wait to hear your spin on this one.

The only SPIN comes from YOU. I'll break it up in chunks, so you'll have less difficulty with it::

I asked in one post how many good teachers might one expect who'd choose to work for less.

In the next post I said S O M E teachers choose to work in private schools, but that S O M E aren't certified to work anywhere else.

Furthermore, this has become a racial issue only in YOUR mind.

I mentioned bigoted stereotypes. Bigoted as they relate to your implications about students in PUBLIC schools.

I didn't say JACK S*IT about RACE. YOU did (which I'd think "puts YOU out there for all to see").

So all the "spin" is yours.

(Just as you prefer to spin disparities in the treatment of black patients into their just being too ignorant or lazy to get their prescriptions filled. File under: black folk vote on the basis of race and other such nonsense.)

 

[b.c.]

And on a "side note" (i.e. back to the TOPIC):

What in the HELL does the Kochs desire to HIDE dark money sources have to do with voter fraud????

North Carolina Voter ID Bill Signed Into Law By Gov. Pat McCrory, Sparking Lawsuits

"North Carolina Gov. Pat McCrory (R) signed a bill Monday requiring photo identification at the polls and eliminating a slew of voting measures designed to protect against voter disenfranchisement."

"The bill also reduces early voting by a week, eliminates same-day registration, ends pre-registration for 16- and 17-year-olds and a student civics program, kills an annual state-sponsored voter registration drive and lessens the amount of public reporting required for so-called dark money groups, also known as 501(c)(4)s."

"The bill has the potential to reduce turnout for key Democratic constituencies -- minorities, the elderly and students -- with the slew of new requirements, even beyond the new measures for identification."

The legislation, passed by the Republican-controlled legislature... is the latest of a string of conservative legislation signed into law in the state. McCrory has also signed measures introducing new restrictions for abortion clinics (attached to a motorcycle safety bill), expanding concealed-carry permits to bars and restaurants, and cutting unemployment benefits."


And WHY do they want to hide "dark money"? Maybe because:


Breaking: New List of the Dark Money Shell Game Groups Connected to the Kochs | PR Watch

Koch-Backed Small Business Group Endorses Walker

Shawn Vestal: Midterm elections setting ‘dark money’ spending record - Spokesman.com - Sept. 24, 2014

A Reading Guide On The Billionaire Koch Brothers | Crooks and Liars

 

[deleted213967]

So the Koch Derangement Syndrome epidemic has not subsided yet in radical left circles?

I do like that "dark money" spin...sexy and sinister-sounding and just in time for Halloween.

 

[Klingsor]

So the Koch Derangement Syndrome epidemic has not subsided yet in radical left circles?

I do like that "dark money" spin...sexy and sinister-sounding and just in time for Halloween.

Not the most substantive response.

 

[deleted213967]

Not the most substantive response.

It was an honest one. I absolutely have no idea why those 2 libertarian brothers, who go as far as defending same-sex marriage when they could just stay out of the fray, and donate 100s of millions of $ to causes clearly unrelated to a political agenda, not to mention provide well-paying jobs to well over 100,000 folks, have become La Bête Noire of the radical left.

... and "dark money" does sound sexy, damn it!

 

[JackU]

Quick summary of the Koch's non-altruistic electioneering. Read on and you'll discover that even a Koch thinks his brothers' views are extremist:

Myths And Facts About The Koch Brothers | Research | Media Matters for America

 

[Jjz1109]

The only SPIN comes from YOU. I'll break it up in chunks, so you'll have less difficulty with it::

I asked in one post how many good teachers might one expect who'd choose to work for less.

In the next post I said S O M E teachers choose to work in private schools, but that S O M E aren't certified to work anywhere else.

Furthermore, this has become a racial issue only in YOUR mind.

I mentioned bigoted stereotypes. Bigoted as they relate to your implications about students in PUBLIC schools.

I didn't say JACK S*IT about RACE. YOU did (which I'd think "puts YOU out there for all to see").

So all the "spin" is yours.

(Just as you prefer to spin disparities in the treatment of black patients into their just being too ignorant or lazy to get their prescriptions filled. File under: black folk vote on the basis of race and other such nonsense.)

Spin on disparities in the treatment of black patients? Refresh my memory - this must have been on the race card thread (how ironic.) :wink:

The problem this creates for you is I NEVER said "black patients are too ignorant or lazy to get their prescriptions filled." Do you actually write this dribble hoping people here are stupid, and will continue to believe the BS you publish BC?

And your qualifier / back pedaling on SOME teachers who chose to work in private schools and SOME aren't certified is pure BS. You're not fooling anyone with that response, as you clearly attempted to disparage and cast doubt on the private / parochial schools systems, complete with link. Nice try, but no cigar.

 

[Klingsor]

It was an honest one. I absolutely have no idea why those 2 libertarian brothers, who go as far as defending same-sex marriage when they could just stay out of the fray, and donate 100s of millions of $ to causes clearly unrelated to a political agenda, not to mention provide well-paying jobs to well over 100,000 folks, have become La Bête Noire of the radical left.

Just parenthetically, why would you assume libertarians would be any less subject to a leftist critique? There's some common ground, true, but also significant differences (such as the role of government in progressive reform).

 

[deleted213967]

Just parenthetically, why would you assume libertarians would be any less subject to a leftist critique? There's some common ground, true, but also significant differences (such as the role of government in progressive reform).

Isn't the so-called War On Poverty half-a-century old by now?

...and what do we have to show for it?

This forum alone tells tales of abject destitution and obese hunger in the richest country on earth...and all that under the least un-Marxist regime we've had since...errr...I believe FDR himself was more conservative than the BHO clique.

 

[Klingsor]

This forum alone tells tales of abject destitution and obese hunger in the richest country on earth...and all that under the least un-Marxist regime we've had since...errr...I believe FDR himself was more conservative than the BHO clique.

Well . . . that's a different take on Obama, to say the least.

 

[b.c.]

Your response makes me laugh out loud in that you are guilty of that which you TRY to accuse ME of.

Spin on disparities in the treatment of black patients? Refresh my memory - this must have been on the race card thread (how ironic.) :wink:

The problem this creates for you is I NEVER said "black patients are too ignorant or lazy to get their prescriptions filled." Do you actually write this dribble hoping people here are stupid, and will continue to believe the BS you publish BC?

No, you never said black patients are too ignorant or lazy to get prescriptions filled. Here is what you said. Let others draw conclusions of their own:

The doctor can only do so much. Part of patient responsibility, and what hasn't been raised here yet, is whether the prescription may be handed over but not filled / retrieved, for whatever reason, whether by personal choice, or due to cost factors. Many an elderly person can't be bothered with the inconvenience of having to travel to the pharmacy to pick up a prescription. I could see these as more likely reasons than any across the board biases by doctors who, by profession, are truly there to help save lives. That would be a scandal and conspiracy of incredible proportions.

And your qualifier / back pedaling on SOME teachers who chose to work in private schools and SOME aren't certified is pure BS. You're not fooling anyone with that response, as you clearly attempted to disparage and cast doubt on the private / parochial schools systems, complete with link. Nice try, but no cigar.

Who's "backpedaling" ? You seem to insist on my accuracy of YOUR exact words, yet think you have the right to presume what MY intent was. A helluva nerve.

There was no intent whatsoever to disparage private and parochial schools other than to point out (as I did) the flawed assumption that ALL of them were necessarily better than the alternatives.

Apparently you ALSO missed the part where I said WE chose private and parochial school, and chose to pay for it (which I imagine would be pretty damned stupid if I really think them unworthy).

My objection to voucher funding (via taxpayer money) of private and parochial schools is that they aren't held up to the SAME standards of PROOF of academic progress (via testing and monitoring), OR the SAME requirements regarding admissions and provisions for students with learning difficulties, behavior issues, and other DISABILITIES - students whom private and parochial schools TOO often (note: another "qualifier" - for those who can KEEP UP) choose to eschew.

So YES. Indeed I did use S O M E. Unlike YOUR wholesale disparagement and casting doubt on PUBLIC schools, their students, AND teachers... for example:

So why do teachers want to go into pupil [sic] schools? Because they have the unions protecting them from any fear of firing, reprimand (ever hear the term rubber rooms?), and can coast through life without any effort. It's pure socialism. Don't get better than that, sucking the teet of a failing system that just keeps getting bigger, more costly, and continues to fail on a global level.

NO "qualifies" there, eh?

 

[b.c.]

And WHY do they want to hide "dark money"? Maybe because:

Breaking: New List of the Dark Money Shell Game Groups Connected to the Kochs | PR Watch

Koch-Backed Small Business Group Endorses Walker

Shawn Vestal: Midterm elections setting ‘dark money’ spending record - Spokesman.com - Sept. 24, 2014

A Reading Guide On The Billionaire Koch Brothers | Crooks and Liars

Quick summary of the Koch's non-altruistic electioneering. Read on and you'll discover that even a Koch thinks his brothers' views are extremist:

Myths And Facts About The Koch Brothers | Research | Media Matters for America

So the Koch Derangement Syndrome epidemic has not subsided yet in radical left circles?

I do like that "dark money" spin...sexy and sinister-sounding and just in time for Halloween.

Not the most substantive response.

It was an honest one. I absolutely have no idea why those 2 libertarian brothers, who go as far as defending same-sex marriage when they could just stay out of the fray, and donate 100s of millions of $ to causes clearly unrelated to a political agenda, not to mention provide well-paying jobs to well over 100,000 folks, have become La Bête Noire of the radical left.

... and "dark money" does sound sexy, damn it!

TRANSLATION: “We’ve got nothing, so might as well resort to scoffing at that which we either don’t give a damn about or don’t understand how it PROBABLY hurts US as well, but no matter because it allows us to take another jab at “those people” who we don’t THINK we’re one of.”

 

[b.c.]

Koch brothers turn their sights on destroying public education for private profit

"Billionaire brother Charles Koch is not shy about the goal of the Koch network, which gets at least $100,000 a year from each of 700 very wealthy people: it’s to “change the trajectory of the country.” And right now, one of the Koch brothers’ key targets is public education.

Leaders of the network dreamed of disrupting the status quo, customizing learning and breaking the teacher unions. One initial priority is expanding educational saving accounts and developing technologies that would let parents pick and choose private classes or tutors for their kids the same way people shop on Amazon.

That means state-level efforts to privatize public education, tilting it away from a system that educates all children for the public good to one that leaves all too many kids out in the cold while channeling public money to private profit."

 

[Elmer Gantry]

All of the other nonsense aside, these guys are pretty nefarious. They've been linked to some pretty dodgy projects for a lot of years.

 

[chicagosam]

All of the other nonsense aside, these guys are pretty nefarious. They've been linked to some pretty dodgy projects for a lot of years.

Have you met the Mercers?

 

[Elmer Gantry]

Yeah, another AI freak. Keep an eye on him.

 

[b.c.]

Some time ago, I wrote in this very thread about how the Kochs put money into universities for the primary purpose of CONTROLLING them, from influencing the curriculum taught to who does and doesn't get HIRED. This new story is just another expose' on one of the ways they BUY influence.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/20...latory-Center-at-George-Washington-University
Report Exposes Real Reason Kochs Fund Regulatory Center at George Washington University
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/20...latory-Center-at-George-Washington-University
"A little over a year ago, student activists at George Mason University successfully exposed just how much influence the Koch brothers had over the university and its Mercatus Center..... Mercatus is just one of hundreds of academic institutions the brothers fund to protect their profits. (Okay, we will admit it’s not JUST about Koch Industry profits--it’s also about protecting the tobacco industry, and occasionally promoting white nationalists…)

Now, a new report from Public Citizen digs into a Mercatus-like situation at George Washington University’s Koch-funded Regulatory Studies Center (RSC).

Though RSC director Susan Dudley would like us to think its goal is to bring the public “an objective, unbiased look at the regulatory system,” Public Citizen examined RSC’s output, funders and personnel, and proves it is anything but unbiased. And Dudley herself, Public Citizen notes, has been involved with at least eight Koch-related groups, and once criticized the EPA for failing to take into account the benefits of smog as a skin-cancer-reducing form of sunblock."

 

[b.c.]

"Take the money and run":

Koch's heirs get to enjoy tax policy that favors all the ultra-rich

"David Koch died late last week, just shy of 80 years old. Whole books have been written cataloguing his legacy as an industrialist and political figure, but to be brief, he leaves behind his stake in the country’s second-largest privately held company and a political network said to rival the entire Republican Party in scale. Everything from Texas oil pipelines to Dixie cups to the Tea Party owes its existence in some way to David Koch.

He also leaves behind a $50 billion estate, a gargantuan sum that made him one of the richest people in the world. In the past, that would have resulted in a massive inheritance for his heirs—but also a significant amount of revenue returned to the public coffers in the form of estate tax.

But thanks largely to a political climate David Koch and his brother Charles helped create... because of his libertarian network’s relentless campaign against the inheritance tax... the top tax rate on estates has dropped from 55 percent to 40 percent since 2000 alone.

But... there’s one massive tax loophole that has helped the estates of America’s billionaire class balloon to unthinkable sums, while getting taxed at rock-bottom rates.

Thanks to a tax provision called step-up in basis, capital gains on inherited assets—stocks, properties, and more—are totally wiped out upon death.

It’s a tax giveaway from Congress that may outstrip all the rest."