the lord of the gay ring

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Imported, Jan 21, 2004.

  1. Imported

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    easy_eros: OMG! i know this is pretty late and not related to the boards in anyway but i just watched the last LOTR movie! and was it ever GAY!!! ;D
    i was foaming at the mouth waiting for one of the men to kiss each other!
    legolas is way hott! :D
     
  2. B_DoubleMeatWhopper

    B_DoubleMeatWhopper New Member

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    You apparently viewed a different Return of the King than I did. I saw nothing remotely 'gay'. Were you perhaps tripping?
     
  3. Imported

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    easy_eros: are you blind? :D
    i cant believe you didnt think it was at the least homoerotic!
    heloooo! merry and pippin? frodo and sam? okay so sam's bisexual!!! hahaha ;D

    don't get me wrong i loved the LOTR movies! but they all are definetly gay. ;)
     
  4. Imported

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    gigantikok: Yea, sorry DMW, but those hobbits seemed pretty homo-erotic to me, lol. Merry and Pippin seemed especially homosexual. "I'll never leave you", "I love you", blah blah blah. I know it's just a strong friendship and all that, but come on.
     
  5. B_DoubleMeatWhopper

    B_DoubleMeatWhopper New Member

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    About Merry and Pippin, it was not 'just a strong friendship'; Merry and Pippin were cousins as well as childhood playmates. They grew up together and had a history as well as kinship. I can't point to them as an example of hobbit gay love or incest. Their love was familial, not sexual.

    Frodo and Sam? Their relationship started out as Master/Servant. Sam was Bilbo's. then Frodo's, gardener. Gandalf chose Sam to be Frodo's companion on the Quest. They grew closer because of their shared experiences. They faced the horrors of Mordor together. They had become friends. I never got a hint of, 'Before you throw that Ring into the Cracks of Doom, Frodo, could you let me get a quick taste of that hobbit hardon?"

    No. The relationships were those of love, not expressions of sexual longing.
     
  6. Imported

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    gigantikok: Jeez, DMW, it was just a joke. Lighten up! :)
     
  7. Imported

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    mindseye: [quote author=DoubleMeatWhopper link=board=99;num=1074706287;start=0#4 date=01/21/04 at 13:22:27]No. The relationships were those of love, not expressions of sexual longing.[/quote]

    And that can't be gay? Dunno about you, but not every feeling I have towards my special man is sexual.
     
  8. jdoe86

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    The way I saw the movie was that it had many "gay" undertones. I don't know if it was the director who made it that way, but when I read the books, there was no "hobbit love" to my knowlege. Well, this is the year 2004 and we do have "queer eye for the straight guy".
     
  9. jonb

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    And it's usually the ladies who scan pop culture for homoeroticism. Yaoi, that is. PWP. Complete ignorance wrt the human anatomy. Oh, wait, all lemons are PWP and show complete ignorance wrt the human anatomy.
     
  10. B_DoubleMeatWhopper

    B_DoubleMeatWhopper New Member

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    [quote author=mindseye link=board=99;num=1074706287;start=0#6 date=01/21/04 at 13:48:03]

    And that can't be gay?  Dunno about you, but not every feeling I have towards my special man is sexual.  
    [/quote]

    Heath, I think you know my thoughts on that subject better than that! Of course gay men are capable of non-sexual feelings toward each other, but so are straight men. Men -- gay, straight and bisexual -- can have strong feelings of attachment, loyalty and affection toward each other, but those feelings and expression of those feelings are not necessarily indicative of their sexual orientations. What I'm saying is that I didn't see one example of a show of affection between men in Return of the King that struck as being even implicitly gay. I saw no exchange that said to me, "Oh, they have to be gay; straight men just don't do that!"
     
  11. Imported

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    gigantikok: [quote author=jonb link=board=99;num=1074706287;start=0#8 date=01/21/04 at 17:01:18]And it's usually the ladies who scan pop culture for homoeroticism. Yaoi, that is. PWP. Complete ignorance wrt the human anatomy. Oh, wait, all lemons are PWP and show complete ignorance wrt the human anatomy.[/quote]
    What the fuck are you talking about? ???
     
  12. D_Martin van Burden

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    "Yaoi" is a Japanese art and literature form that stresses the love between two men. Young women particularly are drawn to this art form as the manga and anime classified under it depict men as exceptionally beautiful creatures -- probably feminine by our Western standards. Even though the men are drawn a little softer and angular than most male protagonists, yaoi usually acts with accordance to gender roles. There is a dominant, powerful man of the relationship who is taller, broader, and considerably more formidable than his softer, usually lighter-complexioned and leaner submissive.

    "Lemon" is a classification of fan fiction that involves sex between and among its characters. Sex is usually depicted in frank terms, compared with "lime" fiction (which is more second-base, involves younger characters maybe). "Lemon" is softcore porn, basically, and it ranges from depicting fantasies with celebrity characters to those likely to be found in manga and anime.

    I took a stab at "PWP" and thought "pleasure with pain," but nah... I don't know where Jon's coming from with the rest. My assumption is that he believes women are more "keyed into" the homoeroticism between two men. Of course, we get girls kissing girls and such all the time in the media too... that kinda dulls the senses for us guys, or gives us a boner in most cases, take your pick.
     
  13. Imported

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    mindseye: [quote author=DoubleMeatWhopper link=board=99;num=1074706287;start=0#9 date=01/21/04 at 17:28:24]Heath, I think you know my thoughts on that subject better than that![/quote]

    No offense intended. This is something I'm a little defensive about -- movies can show a man and a woman interacting together, even without overt sexual connotations, and the critics will describe it as a romantic comedy. We're invited to assume these participants are straight, and that assumption isn't questioned.

    I'm bothered, for example, that in My Fair Lady, people often infer (and in fact, rarely question) that Henry Higgins has heterosexual romantic feelings for Eliza Doolittle, even though...
    • the most he ever says about her is that he's "accustomed" to her face,
    • when she returns at the end of the movie, he offers not even a handshake; instead, he asks her to get his slippers,
    • he's never been married and indeed openly mocks the idea of marriage ("I'd be equally as willing for a dentist to be drilling, than to ever let a woman in my life!"),
    • for many years he's maintained a friendship with a man he's invited to stay with him (and who accepted without hesistation),
    • and he bursts into song every now and then! ;)
    Eliza's sexual orientation was explicitly brought up in the movie; Higgins' never was. Why isn't this movie seen more often for what it really is -- Queer Eye For The Flower Girl?

    So in Return of the King, we see a loving and deep affection between two male characters -- neither of whom have a competing female interest. Then when a viewer infers that these characters might be gay, not an hour later someone else comes along to question that inference. Your question didn't even acknowledge that there might be room or ambiguity, you saw "nothing remotely 'gay'" -- and even enclosed the word gay in quotes.

    When pressed further, you chose the crass "[taste that] hobbit hardon" to characterize gay affection. Is that what it takes to let viewers know that these characters are gay?

    The timing and the wording reminded me uncomfortably much of the defensive denials we often hear from people who equate 'gay' with 'bad'. To me, it's no less reasonable to infer that Sam and Frodo are gay, than it is to assume they're not.
     
  14. Imported

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    gigantikok: [quote author=DeeBlackthorne link=board=99;num=1074706287;start=0#11 date=01/22/04 at 09:22:21]"Yaoi" is a Japanese art and literature form that stresses the love between two men.  Young women particularly are drawn to this art form as the manga and anime classified under it depict men as exceptionally beautiful creatures -- probably feminine by our Western standards.  Even though the men are drawn a little softer and angular than most male protagonists, yaoi usually acts with accordance to gender roles.  There is a dominant, powerful man of the relationship who is taller, broader, and considerably more formidable than his softer, usually lighter-complexioned and leaner submissive.

    "Lemon" is a classification of fan fiction that involves sex between and among its characters.  Sex is usually depicted in frank terms, compared with "lime" fiction (which is more second-base, involves younger characters maybe).  "Lemon" is softcore porn, basically, and it ranges from depicting fantasies with celebrity characters to those likely to be found in manga and anime.  

    I took a stab at "PWP" and thought "pleasure with pain," but nah... I don't know where Jon's coming from with the rest.  My assumption is that he believes women are more "keyed into" the homoeroticism between two men.  Of course, we get girls kissing girls and such all the time in the media too... that kinda dulls the senses for us guys, or gives us a boner in most cases, take your pick.[/quote]
    Thanks for the explanation, Dee.
     
  15. Imported

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    swimguy_14: u guys wont like my opnions on homo, but i think its retarded to cnsider them gay
     
  16. Imported

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    tomarctus: [quote author=swimguy_14 link=board=99;num=1074706287;start=0#14 date=01/22/04 at 14:19:04]u guys wont like my opnions on homo, but i think its retarded to cnsider them gay[/quote]
    You're right on that one, I don't like your opinion. :mad:
     
  17. Imported

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    mindseye: [quote author=tomarctus link=board=99;num=1074706287;start=0#15 date=01/22/04 at 14:24:33]
    You're right on that one, I don't like your opinion. :mad:[/quote]

    Don't sweat it too much. Swimguy_14 lies about his age to get past the door. Maybe if he had a little integrity himself, he'd be more accepting of others. Spelling lessons wouldn't hurt either.
     
  18. Imported

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    tomarctus: [quote author=mindseye link=board=99;num=1074706287;start=0#16 date=01/22/04 at 14:47:55]

    Don't sweat it too much.  Swimguy_14 lies about his age to get past the door.  Maybe if he had a little integrity himself, he'd be more accepting of others.  Spelling lessons wouldn't hurt either.[/quote]
    That's for sure! :) I also didn't know he fibbed about his age.
     
  19. jonb

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    [quote author=DeeBlackthorne link=board=99;num=1074706287;start=0#11 date=01/22/04 at 09:22:21]I took a stab at "PWP" and thought "pleasure with pain," but nah...[/quote]
    Plot? What Plot? (I'm on a writing Yahoo group, and one girl there writes MSTs of various lemons.)
     
  20. Imported

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    roedhunt: Why does it have to be gay vs str8? Just because a man has genuine feelings for another man doesnt make him gay or less than a man. My father had loads of close relationships with men and he is definately not gay or bisexual. He is one of those mans man. He was the one who showed me two people can be ascloseasthis and still be str8. I, myself have women friends I would die for and I love them more deeply than any man. But I am 100% str8.

    Perhaps people see things in a way where they wish it to be. ::)
     
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