The Mona Lisa

[warmhorizon]

Just a really quick rant here but: Has anyone on here actually SEEN the real Mona Lisa and if so what did they think?

I was in Paris about 2 weeks back with my best friend and we decided to go to the Louvre. We were corralled into its own special room and both looked at it for a few seconds, looked back at each other, shrugged and walked off to look at other arts. It was tiny, dark and boring. Enigmatic smile my arse! She just looks uncomfortable like maybe she was holding in a queef or something.

And then all I seem to hear is everyone saying "Oh it's amazing! Most amazing work of art ever!" when there were literally thousands of amazing arts around the place.

On a side note, the Louvre? Fucking MASSIVE! Took four hours to walk around and we missed loads of it! Phew! :tongue: It took 10 minutes to walk PAST the building!

 

[dong20]

I have and to my eye, in an artistic sense it's overrated, way overrated but then I'm probably a philistine..

 

[B_Stronzo]

I've seen it four times. It's quite small. And it's ALWAYS difficult to see it closely since generally there's some tour group up close to it. Last year I simply gave up and moved on. There's so much more interesting "stuff" to see at the Louvre since they made the new access through the controversial pyramid.

And yes the Louvre is monstrous. You really need more than a full day. But that area of the original palace which was excavated during the installation of the pyramid and the artifacts that surfaced are a tremendous window into Paris's earlier history. Much of Paris is so 19th century architecturally I prefer the Musée Cluny.

 

[warmhorizon]

I hate it when people tell you you don't appreciate art simply because you don't like what is commonly agreed by proffessional artists to be a masterpiece. I appreciate art. I appreciate the hell out of it. Bring me any art and I'll appreciate it. But then just because I don't think an eyebrowless brunette from Italy is the most spectacular thing in the universe I'm a neanderthal! It's just... silly! :tongue:

 

[warmhorizon]

Oh, and as museums in Paris go don't bother with Le Consiergerie, it's not worth the money and it smells of wee and biscuits! :tongue: L'arc de Triomphe is very impressive from underneath though and also anyone who manages to climb the thousand-odd steps to the seconds floor of Le Tour Eiffel without getting tired is clearly not a human but some kind of pack animal! :smile:
Nice view though. :tongue:

 

[D_alex8]

I've seen the real one in Paris and the real one in Moscow (at least the guides there assure one that they have the real one )... and it was a tedious, crowded experience in both cases, making it impossible to experience 'marvel' or 'wonder' on any level.

As a rule, the joy of experiencing unexpected beauty where one is least looking for it is always more profitable for me than being directed to 'accepted' notions of 'masterpieces' anyway. :smile:

 

[B_Stronzo]

'eyebrowless' brunette???? Now that's the remark of a PHILISTINE!:biggrin1:

Let's be reasonable shall we? DaVinci's portraits are not plentiful and while I appreciate your opinion of "La Gioconda" I think that description's a bit scathing. It smacks of pure talent and mystery. I suspect you're a bit prejudiced against it because, like me, you're simply sick of seeing endless photos of the thing. I understand that.

To each his own for certain but the painting (for its history alone) gets more than passing approval and attention.

Next time you're there spend some time studying the "La Victoire de Somothrace". It's pretty damned impressive. Perhaps ancient sculpture is more your thing.

 

[B_Stronzo]

As a rule, the joy of experiencing unexpected beauty where one is least looking for it is always more profitable for me than being directed to 'accepted' notions of 'masterpieces' anyway. :smile:

.... if I weren't "married" already dear Alex that sentiment alone would make me seek you out and woo you. Well said.

 

[B_Stronzo]

..also anyone who manages to climb the thousand-odd steps to the seconds floor of Le Tour Eiffel without getting tired is clearly not a human but some kind of pack animal! :smile:
Nice view though. :tongue:

I fucking avoided the Tour Eiffel for 9 visits to Paris and only relented last year. My travel companion insisted we go. Fucking waste of time. The only 'view' I enjoyed was the tour group of Swedish high school boys who seemed to enjoy how fucking much I was cruising them...

 

[dong20]

I've seen the real one in Paris and the real one in Moscow (at least the guides there assure one that they have the real one )... and it was a tedious, crowded experience in both cases, making it impossible to experience 'marvel' or 'wonder' on any level.

As a rule, the joy of experiencing unexpected beauty where one is least looking for it is always more profitable for me than being directed to 'accepted' notions of 'masterpieces' anyway. :smile:

So the real one is in Moscow!! I only ever saw the other real one in Paris and it was closing time so had a few uninterrupted seconds, and I just don't see it...

The Dali work I saw years ago in the Guggenheim on the other hand...wow and the Escher drawings I saw at MOMA if I recall correctly were awsome.

I'm not a fan of 'traditional' portraits....

 

[dong20]

I fucking avoided the Tour Eiffel for 9 visits to Paris and only relented last year. My travel companion insisted we go. Fucking waste of time. The only 'view' I enjoyed was the tour group of Swedish high school boys who seemed to enjoy how fucking much I was cruising them...

The real Eifel tower is in Blackpool anyway..:smile:

 

[jeff black]

When I took my Psychology of Artistic Endevours Class, we spoke about the Mona Lisa.

Apparently, most of Da Vinci's Works of women, all looked similar. The kicker was, they all look like him in drag.

The class was informed that there is a bit of a contraversy in the true identity of Mona Lisa... as no one has been able to find this woman...

Could the smirk be Da Vinci, impressed with himself for fooling millions into thinking that he was a woman??

 

[warmhorizon]

Haha! Now see, La Gioconda / Mona Lisa doesn't have any eyebrows, hence eyebrowless brunette. It was a literal description not a scathing comment. And I have to agree Stronzo the Victory was stunning, as was the Venus De Milo. I'd totally forgotten it was there and THAT was stunningly well crafted.
Also there was an ENORMOUS statue in the Egyptian section that totally blew me away. Although, bizarrely enough the most amazing work of art there was the museum itself, especially the Pyramid with the surrounding fountains. Oh, and did you check out the gardens accross the road? Beautiful! :smile:

 

[B_Stronzo]

The real Eifel tower is in Blackpool anyway..:smile:

The hell it is!

The 'real' Eiffel Tower lies next to me nightly in bed....

I'm not a fan of 'traditional' portraits....

You'd DESPISE my décor. The most recent acquisition is a 17th century French nobleman from the Loire just back from the restorer's..

 

[dong20]

You'd DESPISE my décor. The most recent acquisition is a 17th century French nobleman from the Loire just back from the restorer's..

Well, none of us is perfect..:tongue:

I doubt I'd despise it....In broad terms I'd say I prefer more abstract work whatever that means in artistic terms, but esssentially if I like it like it and VV whatever genre is may be. I try and appreciate a piece on it's 'artistic merits' but art has to move me for me to 'love' it and have it in my home.

In terms of architectural art, Angkor Wat blows my mind each and every time I go and I've been several. It's epic...words can't begin to describe the effect it had on me the first time, after a hard 3 day journey I was alone apart from a couple of local kids and it was almost sunset...It gives me goosebumps to this day.

If I could re-live a moment in time, that would probably be my moment to choose.

 

[ClaireTalon]

I've heard the Louvre is actually a tourist trap, especially for dopey American tourists. I've seen the Centre Pompidou, and the Musée d'Orsay, which reflect my taste in arts way better than the Louvre. They're also less haunted by tour groups, which is always a plus for me. I hate to visit a place where I'm surrounded by tons of tourists babbling.

 

[B_Stronzo]

In terms of architectural art, Angkor Wat blows my mind each and every time I go and I've been several. If I could re-live a moment in time, that would probably be my moment to choose.

Now that is one experience over which I'm truly envious. I've only glimpsed the phenomenon of which you speak through the lens of the National Geographic Society. I can only imagine.

Check your pm box in 5 minutes.

R.

 

[DC_DEEP]

My understanding of the appeal of this particular painting has always been not so much how beautiful she may or may not be, but rather in Da Vinci's handling of a fairly new medium (oil paints) and injecting a textural realism into the work, which was out of character for popular painters of the time. I have not seen La Gioconda in person, but I have seen his Ginevra de' Benci which, although not one of my favorite paintings, has some very impressive characteristics.

 

[D_alex8]

Da Vinci's handling of a fairly new medium (oil paints) and injecting a textural realism into the work

And that is precisely the problem with seeing the 'original'(s) stowed away behind glass from a distance. It enforces the experience of "seeing a tourist attraction because of its notoriety" rather than "appreciating an artwork on its merits". It's a pop culture logic for a traditional cultural medium, with the two entirely at loggerheads.

 

[DC_DEEP]

And that is precisely the problem with seeing the 'original'(s) stowed away behind glass from a distance. It enforces the experience of "seeing a tourist attraction because of its notoriety" rather than "appreciating an artwork on its merits". It's a pop culture logic for a traditional cultural medium, with the two entirely at loggerheads.

It is a bit of a double-edged sword, isn't it, alex? On the occasions I have been to some of the museums in Washington DC, it's been kind of hit or miss whether I'm actually able to enjoy them. Sometimes there are school groups there. While it does detract from my enjoyment, I am at least glad to see that there are efforts to generate artistic/historical interest in youngsters. It's harder for me to be so tolerant of stupid adults, though... and we have absolutely NO shortage of those.