The National Debt Road Trip

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Qua, May 20, 2009.

  1. Qua

    Qua
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  2. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Doesn't put it to rest yet... as the person in the video states he predicting the National Debt based on Obama's current budget estimations. Let's see where we stand after he finishes his run in office (like everyone else that was used in his study), and then we can make a better comparison.

    Regardless, it was a good video even if I don't 100% agree with everything that's been said in it.
     
  3. sargon20

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    Public debt has mirrored private debt in it's dramatic increases. They just don't care. Americans are hungry for a life they just can't afford.

    Household Debt Vs. GDP
    "The problem is us. The problem is not the banks, greedy though they may be, overpaid though they may be. The problem is us... We've been living very high on the hog. Our living standard has been rising dramatically in the last 25 years. And we have been borrowing much of the money to make that prosperity happen."

    I.O.U.S.A.: The Movie
     
    #3 sargon20, May 20, 2009
    Last edited: May 20, 2009
  4. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

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    It'll take until 2010 for the "Bush did it too" rhetoric to succumb.

    These fiscal disasters are still a ways off from coming home to roost.
     
  5. mikeyh9in

    mikeyh9in Active Member

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    Here's a slight issue...

    Bush used creative accounting in his budgets. He *never* accounted for depleted military assets in his budgets. So when the military used tanks, etc., there was no really accounting for the true cost of the wars.

    Obama has included those numbers in his budget.

    Bush spent nearly $0 on infrastructure in this country during his 8 years... remember the Minnesota bridge collapse? Remember Katrina?

    Bush choose to spend the money he had (and didn't have) on stuff we didn't need (like a $1,600,000,000,000.00 war in Iraq), instead of investing it in America.

    Now you are bitching and complaining that we, once again, are investing in America? and finally *truly* understanding the real cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?

    To keep the roadtrip analogy, it's like driving your car across country while the "Check Engine" light on, smoke spewing out the tail pipe, the next person gets in the car and your angry at him because he need to change the oil and replace the tires.

    Don't be angry at Obama... he's trying to fix the issues, be pissed at Bush.

     
  6. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Nice.. you think it only takes two years to forget the mistakes of last 8. Meanwhile, most Republicans can't even forget about Reagan and that was more than 2 decades ago. Wishful thinking, perhaps? :rolleyes:
     
  7. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

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    Exactly. Only it's worse because that is exactly what Obama promised not to do.

    Obama is not doing as he promised in his campaign. Obama stated he would pay as he goes. This is from BarackObama.com. This is who Obama claimed to be. This is what Obama claimed he would do:

    Listen to Barack Obama himself- the first 30 seconds are clear. Obama is now acting contrary to what he ran on in his hope and change campaign:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d4a6RNhCUo&feature=player_embedded
    Barack Obama: The Blueprint for Change Fiscal Discipline

    Obama claimed every single proposal he made in the campaign was paid for because he believed in pay as you go. Obama claimed he didn't believe in running up debt for the next generation.
     
    #7 Trinity, May 22, 2009
    Last edited: May 22, 2009
  8. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    And as usual, Trinitroll doesn't seem to understand that there's certain bits of information that a "candidate for president" may not have that the actual president actually does. Obama went in with an idea, was introduced to newer info and is making adjustments. This is what Presidents are supposed to do. THIS IS WHAT RESPONSIBLE, RATIONAL THINKING ADULTS DO. But of course, having the ability to adjust and change one's mind, or the ability to THINK, is something that Trinity is openly against. To not stand by one's words you until you die is a cardinal sin for someone like Trinity. (S)he would rather have a president that would preach that 1+1=3, and still stand by that statement all throughout their presidency even if introduced with information that provides a different scenario.

    Hence why (s)he'll agree with whatever doomsday scenario people would make based on predictions instead of actual facts. You wear hate very well, mama... :rolleyes:
     
    #8 B_VinylBoy, May 22, 2009
    Last edited: May 22, 2009
  9. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

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    That is a bunch of garbage. Obama was well aware we were in 2 wars. Obama was well aware of the economic crisis. Obama was well aware that Healthcare Reform had been attempted by the best and not achieved because it is a difficult and complicated social issue and because it is costly. Obama said he knew how to do it. Obama said he was the candidate to address all those issues.

    Obama clearly stated that every campaign proposal was paid for and that he believed in pay-as-you-go and not increasing the Deficit. Obama ran on this. This was the crux of Obama's criticism of Bush and the bedrock of his platform. What does Obama know now as President that he didn't know as Senator? That the USA does not have the money to do all the things he wants to do? Shouldn't Obama be adjusting accordingly rather than mortgaging America's future on China's credit card? For Obama to go against the basic principle of fiscal responsibility and push this massive agenda that has never been able to be achieved even in times of prosperity, in the middle of economic crisis is irresponsible.

    To claim that Obama is doing it because he knows more now is just stupid.
     
  10. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    And you talk bullshit dressed up as political morality. I guess that makes us even.

    Thanks to our previous administration.

    Also due to our previous administration.

    That doesn't mean that it should have been ignored.

    And he's doing just that.

    Among many other issues.

    Actually, a LOT more than just economics were under scrutiny when everyone was criticizing Bush.

    Wow... America is broke. Something most rational thinking adults already knew before Nixon got into office. Welcome to the 60s! :rolleyes:

    Unfortunately, your perception of adjusting is not to spend any money at all on the things that America really needs. That, given the struggles the average American faces today, is also UNREALISTIC.

    The previous administration went against the basic principles of financial responsibility for many years, getting involved with two wars and continually giving tax breaks to the wealthiest people on the thought that money would trickle down to the poor in the form of jobs and prosperity.

    And to claim that he doesn't know what he's doing based on crystal ball-like predictions is also stupid. But then again, since it's coming out of your pseudo-moralistic mouth, it must be true. Give me a break. :rolleyes:
     
  11. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

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    Obama ran on the issues and knew full well the monumental tasks of addressing them. Your argument doesn't hold water even with you.

    No one said ignore it. Did you watch the clip? Obama doesn't have to go 174 mph! Spending is what got us into this problem.

    No he's not.

    I was actually referring to Obama's fiscal responsibility page on his campaign website where he criticizes Bush specifically for increasing the deficit.


    BarackObama.com

    Quote:
    Barack Obama will restore fiscal discipline to Washington

    Reinstate PAYGO Rules: Obama and Biden believe that a critical step in restoring fiscal discipline is enforcing pay-as-you-go (PAYGO) budgeting rules which require new spending commitments or tax changes to be paid for by cuts to other programs or new revenue.

    The Problem
    Increasing Debt: Under President Bush, the federal debt has increased from $5.7 trillion to $8.8 trillion, an increase of more than 50 percent.

    Against Raising the Federal Debt Limit: In 2006, Obama voted against misguided Republican efforts to raise the statutory debt limit at the same time the Republicans were pushing through massive debt-financed tax cuts for the wealthy.
    Obama's own budget predictions don't even put him on apar with Pres. Clinton on fiscal responsibility.

    Wrong again. I support the Democratic Platform. I don't support crazy. Every family in America has to make difficult choices. Sometimes you can't do everything you want to, when you want to.

    The only thing unrealistic is Obama's budget. Even Krugman said everything has to go just so for it to work. Obama is already outside of his budget estimates on unemployment numbers and we haven't even gotten to healthcare. Obama can't get bogged down in Afghanistan and now Pakistan bowls over. According to Krugman Obama has to get out of Iraq and now we have, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and N. Korea all front and center. So don't talk to me about unrealistic. Everyday, Obama and his administration ask for Billions more. Banks continue to fail. Foreclosures continue to rise. And our economy has not stabilized.

    Write this down Vinyl and send it to your borg leader: Don't be fiscally irresponsible because you think Bush was fiscally irresponsible and you think that gives you permission to be fiscally irresponsible. :rolleyes:

    Nobody is going by a crystal ball. We are going by Obama's own budget projections. Obama's own budget projection numbers are already off so Obama will either adjust or deal with the consequences. What I stated was that you cannot claim that Obama is being fiscally irresponsible because he knows more as President because that is just stupid.
     
  12. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Oh, please. I'm allowing the man to DO HIS JOB. Unlike you, who predicts doom every time the man breathes.

    Honey, I was the first to respond on this thread. Of course I watched it. And I'll repeat what I said when I first responded to Qua: The person in the video states he predicting the National Debt based on Obama's current budget estimations.

    Now Trinitroll... DO YOU KNOW WHAT A PREDICTION IS? An estimate... a calculation based on what they know to guess what will happen in the future. Which means it's probable that it could happen. It's also probable that it may NOT happen. But of course, since you hate Obama you assume the worse will happen. Which is why you think this video, BASED ON A GUESS, is accurate.

    Here's the other flaw in the video. With every president, he calculated a supposed "miles per hour" based on their entire term. He's trying to calculate Obama's performance on budget estimations and only going by half of his projected term. If this is supposed be a level playing field, we should all wait until Obama's term ends before making a judgement call. Of course, when you hate the man you'll make special rules in order to make your pathetic arguments of doom more relevant.

    So please, don't ask me if I've watched the link. I OBVIOUSLY can analyze the information more than YOU can. :rolleyes:

    Don't lie to yourself.

    You're still lying to yourself. :rolleyes:

    And nobody knows this more than a struggling family or anyone making less than the average yearly income. THEIR ENTIRE LIFE is based on making sacrifices and deciding whether or not it's more important to pay the rent or pay for a hospital bill. I grew up surrounded by this. And even though I live in Manhattan now, I still have to deal with it. Don't even TRY to give me the moralistic bullshit here. You talk it, but you don't walk it AT ALL.

    And somehow, you're acting as if he did everything to the almighty plan of Trinity (or better yet, step down so that Hillary could do it), banks would be resurrected, foreclosures would be disappearing and the economy would be corrected. And you have the nerve to talk to me about being unrealistic. :rolleyes:

    And you can write this down...
    Hillary lost. Obama is not the boogeyman. Spending money to help the American people live their lives easier is not being fiscally irresponsible. A person cannot make money without any form of financial investment up front.

    You're a troll.
    Oops... don't write that last part. I think you already know that already. :rolleyes:

    But you are going by a guess. Hence the simile applies. :rolleyes:

    In other words, you're STILL making a guess. Doesn't matter how you reword that.
    I thought you would have learned that by now with all of your moralistic bullshit in the Nancy Pelosi thread between "torture" and "enhanced interrogation techniques". How soon do we forget! :rolleyes:

    And he has 4 years (if not 8) to work this out. Any other premature whining and bitching is just that... premature.

    First off, we don't know what effect all of this proposed spending will have on our nation. So to assume it's all fiscally irresponsible is complete bullshit. Also, to assume that everyone knows exactly what the President knows when it comes to the economy is stupid. We only see what we're told by the media, and last time I checked you haven't provided a complete audit on our nation's checking account. So please, STOP THE BULLSHIT. Obama will be in office till at least 2012, and hopefully till 2016 because I think watching you whine for an additional 7 years would be to the enjoyment of all on a penis site. :rolleyes:
     
    #12 B_VinylBoy, May 22, 2009
    Last edited: May 22, 2009
  13. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

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    You are an Obama apologist...you overlook and explain away anything that Obama does that you would rail against if a Republican did it.

    You lack common sense. Based on Obama's best estimates he is running up the deficit greater and faster than any President before him. I don't assume the worst will happen, if I just assume what Obama himself predicts will happen IT IS UNSUSTAINABLE, UNACCEPTABLE and ASTRONOMICAL. Your elevator doesn't go all the way to the top.

    WRONG again. The Clip uses 8 years of Obama's estimates(Obama's budget is projected out to 10 years)

    Not even on your best day.

    Nope. The honeymoon is over. People are waking up. Hence, the Tea Party Protests. Hence, Obama's own party refusing to fund "Obama's No Plan Gitmo Closing." Hence, this clip on Youtube telling millions of people that Americans aren't lulled to sleep by Obama's popularity numbers, and won't stand for Obama mortgaging the future of this great nation on China's credit card.

    Based on what Obama ran on...Obama himself said it was irresponsible. :rolleyes:

    One more time so you can get it:

    Obama is not doing as he promised in his campaign. Obama stated he would pay as he goes. This is from BarackObama.com. This is who Obama claimed to be. This is what Obama claimed he would do:

    Listen to Barack Obama himself- the first 30 seconds are clear. Obama is now acting contrary to what he ran on in his hope and change campaign:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d4a6RNhCUo&feature=player_embedded
    Barack Obama: The Blueprint for Change Fiscal Discipline

    Obama claimed every single proposal he made in the campaign was paid for because he believed in pay as you go. Obama claimed he didn't believe in running up debt for the next generation.
     
  14. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Oh, is this the new mudslinging label of the month for people who don't agree with you? You're such a joke. :rolleyes:

    I don't overlook a thing. I just don't overreact to everything that doesn't go to plan. You on the other hand...

    Honey, you've never used a bit of it on this board. Ever.
    No sense commenting on something you can't even do

    Bitch... IT'S STILL A GUESS. IT'S A FUCKIN' ASSUMPTION. THAT'S NOT FACT, NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU TRY TO SPIN IT INTO ONE. It's still subject to change or alteration, based on whatever new information or circumstances emerge from now till the end of his term in office. And as we've seen in his first four months in office, he has no problems making revisions to his original plan.

    The Dictionary and the thesaurus trump your political rhetoric... again.

    You STILL don't understand what an "estimate" means, do you?
    You STILL don't understand that estimate and guess are synonyms... do you?

    Read a fuckin' dictionary first, and then you can talk to me. :rolleyes:

    For you, it never began. In fact, you've been bitching about it since Hillary lost.

    Oh, yes... the Teabagging Parties. A bunch of people who don't even make $250K a year or more complaining about the spending our government is proposing, not even realizing that the majority of the policies proposed are geared to actually help them. Sure, I'm going to listen to a large group of people who are duped into believing that they have more in common with rich Neo-Conservatives based on their "moral standings", who make more than me in a year than I probably make in 5 or 6, and join THEIR fight because THEY don't want their taxes to be raised.

    I don't know if I should laugh or shake my head at them. At you, however, I'd GLADLY give you my middle finger.

    They're denying the funding of it based on the current lack of a plan, not the concept. If you're going to make a statement, make a complete one, bitch. Your "editing" doesn't fool anyone.

    Dems nix money to close Gitmo, say plan needed first - CNN.com

    Jeez.. no wonder people hate you on this board. :rolleyes:
     
    #14 B_VinylBoy, May 23, 2009
    Last edited: May 23, 2009
  15. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

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    And finally we've come to the end of this tete-a-tete with the usual outcome. You've said a bunch of nothing. I have no need to respond because your ignorance speaks for itself. :wink:
     
  16. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    No kidding it speaks for itself... :rolleyes:

    Bitch, you called me an "Obama Apologist" as if this is some kind of bastardizing, socially condemning name in the field of politics. As if someone would hear this term, scream bloody murder and run away in fear... Or at least side with your twists logic. You base your entire argument in this thread on a guess, and somehow think I'm the ignorant one because I'm willing to let a President do his job before passing any real judgement. Whereas you're ready to undergo impeachment proceedings based on some homebrewed YouTube video. And you call me ignorant... ROTFLMFAO.

    Keep in mind, even I wasn't this critical on GWB only 4 months into his presidency. I wasn't even this demonizing of him during the 2000 election. It took an entire term of errors, a nasty re-election proceeding which was decided on the discrimination and hate of homosexuals, AND the realization that we were lead to war on false pretense before I decided he was an idiot. Whereas you have been spewing ignorant venom against Obama since you woke up one day and found him in the lead in the Primary. And again, you call ME ignorant...

    Insults from you are just as empty as your rhetoric because you are one of the prime example of ignorance, hypocrisy and bigotry on this board. The only difference is that you know how to make it look pretty, with your butterfly avatar and carefully scripted scribe. The image you try to portray on this board, as a moralistic, concerned "Democrat" is so phony even a fake orgasm from a hooker sounds more realistic. Stop the bullshit, already and find a new game to play.
     
    #16 B_VinylBoy, May 23, 2009
    Last edited: May 23, 2009
  17. Industrialsize

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

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    I'm amused how you keep bringing up the "Tea Parties" as some kind of omen that the "people" are rising up against President Obama. And yet his personal, policy and job approval ratings remain steadily in the sixties. I've said it before but the Tea Parties will have as much effect on the American electorate as your vaunted PUMA party had on the primary. ZERO!
     
  18. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Industrialsize: Folks like Trinity make me sick to my stomach to know that I was a Hillary supporter at one time.
     
  19. sargon20

    Gold Member

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    The entity known as Trinity brings up 'tea parties' screams only one thing. It is a Republican/Faux News propaganda source. No one except the hard core 22% that still calls themselves Republican even knows what a 'tea party' is. It's the last gasp from a dying party. The GOP stood at the abyss before in 1966. Then they exploited the racial fears of the South and was able to rise. But what can they do now? The country is vastly more diverse and they can't use the 'state rights' ruse anymore to get votes. Colin Powell says a new Republican Party is 'waiting to emerge', I just don't know what that would like? They would surely have to jettison the hard core 22%. You are talking about building a party from scrap.
     
    #19 sargon20, May 23, 2009
    Last edited: May 23, 2009
  20. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

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    The people are slowly but surely opening their eyes on Obama's policies. Nationwide protests in the first 100 days is significant. Obama's polling is beginning to separate personal popularity from policy. Obama will rise or fall on the issues.

    Rasmussen:

    Overall, 57% of voters say they at least somewhat approve of the President's performance so far while 41% disapprove.
     
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