The Not Mostly "African American" Card

nudeyorker

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There's no such thing as someone not seeing race because we all do. Only the blind can't see race. But some people are able to control one's emotions and outbursts despite the visuals, and that's a good thing.

You know I've never been able to articulate this very well, but once I shared an apartment with a black woman and someone once asked me... "What is it like living with a black women?" and my answer was... "I don't think about it in black and white and focus on our friendship and who she is" and truly did not think about color until it was brought up; but I had known her for such a long time and we had moved past the superficial and were on a different level.

My best friend in the world is Japanese American I really don't think about it until it's brought up. When you meet people for the first time I think we all immediately see the individual differences in each other but as time goes by (at least for me) I see what we have in common.
 

petite

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I was actually colorblind once. When I was eight my best friend was an adopted girl. Every summer we would compete on our tans, and for some reason, I could never keep up with her. She always got so much darker than me, which I envied. A few years ago I was looking at some old photos and I saw a photo of my birthday party. There she was, except... I suddenly realized that my best friend was probably Hawaiian or a Pacific Islander, she was incredibly dark, she really stood out among the 12 or so children in the photo, and when I was a child, I never noticed that, and I didn't remember it. No wonder her tan was so much better than mine. :rolleyes:

You know I've never been able to articulate this very well, but once I shared an apartment with a black woman and someone once asked me... "What is it like living with a black women?" and my answer was... "I don't think about it in black and white and focus on our friendship and who she is" and truly did not think about color until it was brought up; but I had known her for such a long time and we had moved past the superficial and were on a different level.

My best friend in the world is Japanese American I really don't think about it until it's brought up. When you meet people for the first time I think we all immediately see the individual differences in each other but as time goes by (at least for me) I see what we have in common.

I agree. When you know someone well and you're friends, you suddenly forget the differences between you and suddenly you're focused on what's the same about the two of you.
 
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D_Plenty OToole

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Wow, I need to stop being so angry. My only point is that even if we (everyone on this thread) all agreed that race wasn't important, we would still be wrong. I can't decide how other people are going to think, how their going to treat me and each other, or what kinds of experiences others are going to have.

I agree entirely that we can't help seeing race. The way that we think about and react to the difference is up to each individual. But I think the most dangerous thing is to not be honest with yourself about racist impulses. I grew up in a vey racist place. My father was incredibly racist. I never wanted to be racist, and as long as I can remember I actively tried not to be. I remember being color blind too. I was about seven, and there was this little girl in my class. I guess we had a crush on each other, but we were too young too see it that way then. One day my father came to pick me up at school, and he saw us playing together. It turns out that she was black. He explained everything to me and made it clear that I shouldn't be friends with her.

When I was a teen and young adult, I thought I was color blind. It was only through a lot of experiences and reading theory that I began to understand that I was fooling myself. Since then I have tried to allow racist impulses to come to the front of my mind and deal with them, rather than repress them. Its much healthier, and the end result is that I don't have many such impulses anymore.

This is a website set up by some artists dealing with the idea of "soft racism." It's satirical, so don't take the surface layer seriously:

Black People Love Us!
 

Countryguy63

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Ok, I told you that I wouldn't be able to say it right, or else I'm being totally misunderstood. :confused:

Of course, I "see" "it", but in the same way that I "see" different colored hair, or a different shaped face.

I see the differences in everybody, I just look at them the same

I'll stop now :cool:
 

nudeyorker

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I agree that this is an important issue. When I was in HS my brother and I were the only two jewish kids in our class. There were certainly issues but the one thing I learned is that I have no control over how others view the world and their issues but I do have control over how I let their views effect my views and my actions.
In a my quest in life of not being biased I have managed to have some strong views regarding (some) jewish people, (some) gay people and (most) lawyers I am able to keep those views to myself however 99.99% of the time.
 

nudeyorker

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Ok, I told you that I wouldn't be able to say it right, or else I'm being totally misunderstood. :confused:

Of course, I "see" "it", but in the same way that I "see" different colored hair, or a different shaped face.

I see the differences in everybody, I just look at them the same

I'll stop now :cool:

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! You have just helped me articulate some thoughts I have had for years and until now I could not. I see what you are saying and agree completely.

However many people are raised to see something or someone else who is different as being wrong. I was not raised that way... Strange or unusual in our house was equated to being exotic.
 

D_Plenty OToole

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I just want to know how CountryGuy manages to have his post look different than everyone else's (at least on my browser). His mini-profile part of each post is way wider. How?

never mind. I reloaded the page and it looks normal now.
 
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Countryguy63

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Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! You have just helped me articulate some thoughts I have had for years and until now I could not. I see what you are saying and agree completely.

However many people are raised to see something or someone else who is different as being wrong. I was not raised that way... Strange or unusual in our house was equated to being exotic.

Thank you!

psst, wanna know a secret?? I didn't even know why "Jews" were referred to as different. Alpha explained it a little to me. Still don't understand why some consider them so bad?? :frown1:
 

Countryguy63

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I just want to know how CountryGuy manages to have his post look different than everyone else's (at least on my browser). His mini-profile part of each post is way wider. How?

never mind. I reloaded the page and it looks normal now.

Oh, so now you see me as different?? :biggrin1::wink::tongue::biggrin1::biggrin1:

p.s. Does "wider" mean "thicker"??:tongue:
 

petite

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It is important.

Self-awareness is definitely important when it comes to things like this. Like Hungy, my mother was racist, but I think my father did a good job of protecting me from that, and I wasn't even aware of it until I became an adult and I was shocked to discover how she really thinks. I think my father could have done a better job of exposing me to black children as a child, especially since so many of his close friends were black, but I grew up without prejudices against black people despite all of that. My lack of exposure and input one way or another meant that there was just a blank slate where black people were concerned. I didn't have preconceived notions because I didn't know anything.

I am biased against people in a certain political party much more than I am against anyone's race or nationality. I have few friends with this political leaning, and I'm aware of my prejudice during certain conversations, but I'm also aware that my bias informs my opinions regarding things totally unrelated to politics and that's defaulting to stereotyping. I am also aware of certain biases I posses related to nationality, especially my mother's nationality, and the nation where my grandfather resided. Those biases are rather strong and some of them are very negative.

This was elegant:

I see the differences in everybody, I just look at them the same


Thank you!

psst, wanna know a secret?? I didn't even know why "Jews" were referred to as different. Alpha explained it a little to me. Still don't understand why some consider them so bad?? :frown1:
I didn't either and I asked my friend. She tried to explain it to me, but I still don't get it. Jesus was a Jew, so the rest of it just doesn't make any sense.
 
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NCbear

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. . . I actually met an older African_American lady once who told me that she was raised to believe that white people were literally the devil. LMAO, I could see how a person of a certain generation could believe that. . . .

I once supervised a woman like that. It was one of the four major reasons I left that job--I happen to be white, and she tried to make me pay (in various ways) for everything racist white people had done to her.

Often, it was an incredibly difficult situation and working relationship, one that I'm glad I've now exited.

NCbear (who wonders sometimes how some black people were able to forgive what racist whites did to them)
 

NCbear

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Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! You have just helped me articulate some thoughts I have had for years and until now I could not. I see what you are saying and agree completely.

However many people are raised to see something or someone else who is different as being wrong. I was not raised that way... Strange or unusual in our house was equated to being exotic.

Same here. Different is good/interesting/appetizing.

NCbear (who likes and appreciates different :biggrin1:)
 

MrHangman

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The reason people use their "African-American" heritage to "get ahead" isn't necessarily a racial issue, although it can boil down to one. It's a socio-economical issue. And because of prejudice and the past, African-Americans are more likely to be in the poverty levels of income rather than middle or upper class. Now I am not saying that all African-Americans are trapped there, because many are moving up, which is a beautiful thing. But it's like affirmative action. Trying to correct the past. Giving underpriveleged people the chance to compete with everyone else. Again it's not necessarily the fact that you're black, it's the fact that you don't have as many opportunities as everyone else.

On one level, you'd think "wow they should do away with this it's basically racism" but if you honestly think that, then you are lucky to have the privelege to not have to have lived through what the hardships are that these people and their parents had to go through solely based on their heritage.

Although in progressive communities like cities, there is more acceptance of minorities, sometimes I do think that it shouldn't necessarily be actions to help certain ethnicities, but instead be programs to help out low-income people in general. Which there are plenty of. I'm probably rambling and repeating myself now, but really if you think that the historic and current lives of most African-Americans are on par with yours and that they don't deserve any aid in being able to have similar opportunities with you, then I don't know, I might have to throw out the word ignorance.

And with Barack Obama, I guess it is going by the old standards of our country. "If you're not all white then you ain't white." Also, physical characteristics have to do with the way others perceive you. His skin colour is enough for most people to warrant him as black.

I think that covers the gist of what the original poster was asking.

And then throughout this thread, I saw that people should not be using the term African-American and just use the term American. I don't know, I think it is all right for somebody to use that as their "proper" label. I have no problem saying I am "Asian-American" even though I typically go by "Asian" even though I live in the United States. Also, I saw someone saying that African-American is stupid because it should be Kenyan-American or Nigerian-American. Yeah, that'd be fine and dandy if these African-Americans could actually trace back their cultures, but they can't because of that whole slavery incident. So African-American works well.

But then again, why do we even place so much emphasis on race? For statistics, the census, and to know the genuine make up of our country? Oh well.
 

b.c.

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So I'm in the DMV today (getting a preview of how Obamacare would operate, if it's allowed to proceed), and there's this older Filipina lady customer screaming out "THIS IS RACISM! THIS IS RACISM!!!" waving some form AV-99577 in the air to the both the African American and Asian American service reps (I think another Filipino.... technically a Pacific Islander, but I'll keep this easy for the East Coasters). Found that amusing, as did the 2 African American teenagers next to me whom did a hilarious reenactment of her accent "DEEESH ESH LRASCISM!". Got me thinking about race, and then wonder why ppl that are not a majority (but partly) of African American tend to identify themselves as such, and/or use it to an advantage, and/or likewise the rest of society does so, often to place them on a Mt Zeus of "advancement of ______,_____" for African American peeps

For example, in my measure, the greatest African American golfer of all time is... Calvin Peete.

The greatest Asian American golfer is Tiger Woods (Tiger is of half-Asian, quarter-African), yet he commonly referred to as Afircan American, and rarely, if ever, as an Asian.

Also, if Obama is the 1st African American president, then should he not also be the 44th white president of the US? Technically speaking?

I suppose it's appearance, association, upbringing etc vs measure of actual lineage. While I'm at it, I think I've personally met 334,908 ppl to (when running off their ethnic lineage) to espouse 1/16th of some native American Indian tribe (99% of the time the "Hollywood" ones, too - Cherokee or Navajo, and never anything like Mi-Wok or Ohlone or Yupik)... digressing.

BTW: My local boy Rex does THE seminal Filipino impersonation, for those unfamiliar w/ a Filipino-American accent and the fun one can have thereof. YouTube - Rex Navarette Classique...

Well (dig it) the other day I was sitting out back and noticed a dog lapping from his bowl. WTF?? I went, isn't that what cats do?????

Only a coupla moments later I beheld a CAT crossing the street, which if you think long and hard enuf (AS I am often wont to do) is a kinda dog thing (to do), isn't it. But the thing that really floored me was watching this bird standing on a sidewalk, which is something dogs and cats do. Only diff was, the bird went "peep"...peeps.

Anyway that's when that last beer finally wore off, upon which I pulled my head out of my OWN asshole and got on with my life, something maybe SOME of us might be better off likewise doing... WORD!!???
 

b.c.

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I thought I was going to avoid posting in this thread, however, given some of the good responses that generated from it I feel like I should contribute. Ultimately, I don't really care what someone decides to call me as long as it's not blatantly derogatory. If they want to call me Black or African American it's fine. Regardless of the term that is used, you can usually tell whether or not a person meant what they say sincerely or maliciously. With so many people having their own preferences as to how they articulate such a thing, it would be crazy of me to expect every single person to greet me (or refer to me) in the same exact fashion. Granted, the more I know & like a person the more I'm willing to accept them addressing me with more "leisurely greetings". But that is also on a case by case basis.

There's no such thing as someone not seeing race because we all do. Only the blind can't see race. But some people are able to control one's emotions and outbursts despite the visuals, and that's a good thing.

Same here. Don't care which term you use, just don't fuck with me.

One thing I somewhat resent was the implication in the o.p. that the use of certain terms to racially identify people is to employ some "card" for the (presumably) disingenuous intent of self advancement, an asshole-like assumption in that identifying oneself (or another) as such is not necessarily and advantage, isn't it? When one infers it as such, one reveals more so of who (and what) they're all about, than anything else.

People identify themselves (I think) by the gist of their own life experiences, within the quite limited paradigms that society itself imposes upon us. How many job applications, for example, do we ever see that allow for such diversities as 10% Caucasoid 50% Negroid 40% Native American/Asian?

If identifying oneself as African American is supposed to be some advantage, tis news to me. Perhaps an opportunity should be made (on applications, birth certificates, driver's licenses and such) for those who identify themselves as "white" (or at least not-African American, presumably by the o.p.'s argument, no particular advantage at all) to get in on the "bandwagon" and identify which percentage of their "whiteness" is in fact of another race, though it's doubtful there would be much of a line of those in a hurry to get in on the deal, eh? :cool:
 
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Daisy

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That's just silly. Rude and disrespectful, as you see it, is the width and breadth of the entire race problem that exists in the United States. Also, I'm always a little skeptical when a white person wants to decide when the "race card" is being used. The OP admitted that he had no idea what had transpired. All he knew was that a bunch of brown people were standing around, and one was saying that something was racist. Excuse me for not hitching my wagon to his take in things.

White people will always say how color blind they are if they are in the majority and controlling what is acceptable. Would you feel the same way in Harlem, East LA, or Compton? I bet you'd notice what color everyone was then.

Yeah but what you fail to see here is that Northern CA, esp where Countryguy lives is NOT a white majority. White in CA is now a minority.

I wouldnt be so quick to judge "white people" as you see them.
 

nudeyorker

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One of the really interesting things I really love about being a resident of Hawaii is.... There are no racial or ethnic majorities in Hawaii. Everyone is a minority. Caucasians constitute about 34%; Japanese-American about 32%; Filipino-American about 16% and Chinese-American about 5%. It is very difficult to determine racial identification as most of the population has some mixture of ethnicities.

White people have never been the majority in Hawaii yet oddly I have never felt like a minority. I think people in Hawaii look at things differently than those on the mainland (it's called kamaaina spirt) You either have it or you don't.
 

nudeyorker

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I just had the most interesting PM from someone telling me that I don't understand discrimination because I have never been a vicim of it. I guess they did not read what I have written in this thread. But they were right about one thing I never have been a victim as a result of discrimination I guess because the sum of all of my parts are not just being jewish or gay or anything else. I've always thought too much of myself to take someone's assessment of me as being accurate.
Of all the things that people have said about my religion, my life style choices being a dumb blonde etc etc etc... I learned a long time ago that you can either swallow it, put it back in their face or just move on and live your life and not make room for stupid people in your life. I actually had to quit a job once because of this but it was worth it. I was told by everyone I know to litigate the matter but I decided the best thing was to move on and forget about it and be happy. And that's what happened. Sometimes you have to ask yourself if you are going to take a fools view of how you feel about yourself.
 

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