The People Have Spoken!

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by D_N Flay Table, Jun 28, 2007.

  1. D_N Flay Table

    D_N Flay Table New Member

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    Yes my friends..
    it is true.
    the Amnesty bill has been defeated.
    A big thanks to everyone that called congress, the senate, and the local politicians to get this killed.
    it is a great day for America.
     
  2. agnslz

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    Yippee!!:rolleyes:
     
  3. viking1

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    Good! Now I wonder what they are going to try next?
     
  4. nakedwally

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    i am not going to comment on this i might get yelled at by one of the mods
     
  5. faceking

    faceking Well-Known Member

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    The bill was wrong on so many fronts... and there's some shock why the Congress' approval rating is lower than Bush's and has been for months. Yeah, way to go Dems, ya won back the House.... what the F are you doing with it?

     
  6. SpeedoGuy

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    Good. Back to business as usual ignoring the 800 lb gorilla in the room. Or, at least ignoring him as long as he continues to work for low wages and no benefits.
     
  7. ripsrips

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    Thats what they get for breaking our laws in the first place!
     
  8. YourAvgGuy

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    I know this is a highly controversial subject and one demands people to be open-minded, fair and hone in on diplomacy... With that said, I will state my opinion about the situation.

    I do not like the fact that people unfairly and unjustly occupy our country without regards going through appropriate channels. But, likewise, would not America become an indigenous country again if we were to truly implement total and complete equity for citizenship. Are not most people here (at least from your [their] ancestry) "illegals?" I venture to say yes.

    This country has been founded on the perils of its indigenous peoples and have likewise erradicated, through cultural geneocide, termination, etc., have purposely attempted to eliminate an entire population. As American Indian, I personally find the mentality of Americans to be abrupt, perplexing and disheartening, especially considering they are unaware of historical context and significance here in the Americas prior to the filtration of settlers and "illegal aliens" from other countries.

    Reasons for immigration have included religious freedoms, better opportunitites, excile - in some cases, and the promise for a better life... Was that not why the first pilgrams migrated here? How dare we cast stones at others searching for the same happiness. Granted, they may not do it as we want - "legally," but did your ancestors? If that would have been the case, I am sure indigenous peoples would not be so abrasive to the thought of American history... Read up on it! Hell, folk came here stole our lands, killed our people and then had the audacity to tell us we were NOT citizens of America until 1924. Pot + Kettle = Black? Think about it...

    Another thing that perplexes me is that these "illegal aliens" from the border are Americans. They are indigenous peoples and they were here prior to the other arrivals. People need to do a paradigm shift and re-evaluate how they perceive things as well as read your histories. Understanding, unfortunately, that history is generally written by those who have the "power," the images can still be unwavering and unfavorable for sects of people, but if you research deep enough, you will find some answers I am sure you were not taught in HS or in college. More than likely, you parents didn't teach you about it either. Anyway, your priviledge is something you take for granted. For these, it is something that was stripped of them - long before most of your families ever settled on these already occupied lands.

    And finally... what about those children who did not have a choice in whether they would come here or not? Do we still treat them the same way? Social justice issue there, my friend, at least in my opionion. These children should not be held to the same standard... it was a decision not made by them, yet the punishment filters across to them unfairly. And as well, I have to wonder about children born in the States to "illegals." They are US citizens once born here. What do we do??? Ship their parents back across the border and keep them (the children)... send them to a bording school; put them into the system to become wards of the state/federal government? Again, what is just about this?

    I say to you... look at all options and think clearly about what it is you say and how you say it. I am certain no one would like it if I suggested that we indigenous peoples help PACK EVERYONE's bags and ship them back to their respective countries... no? Is that not what we are proposing and doing here? Call me... I have been ready to help pack some bags for a LONG TIME! I am sure my grandparents and great-parents would have loved the opportunity, especially when they were being treated like this - from the very same type of people... consequently mirroring the American image.

    Oh, and while I am on my soap box... I fucking hate the terminology "illegal alien." These are people, with feelings and purpose. Where the hell is humanity when calling them "aliens?" Stupid, illogical and unwarranted.

    There... said it. Done.
     
  9. ripsrips

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  10. B_big dirigible

    B_big dirigible New Member

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    Philosophically, it boils down to a very simple question. Do we want the United States of America to be a nation of laws, or not? If we do, then deliberate scofflaws have no place here.

    This has nothing to do with the race, origin, or ethnicity of foreigners trying to get in. If they're fundamentally unwilling to comply with our laws - all of them, not just the ones they find convenient - then I'd prefer that they be kept out.
     
  11. B_NineInchCock_160IQ

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    I'd say it boils more down to naked ugly racism and agree wholeheartedly with YAG (except for the "illegal aliens" thing. makes enough sense to me). Nobody gives a crap about undocumented Canadians in the U.S.
     
  12. HotBulge

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    Lowells talk to Cabots, Cabots talk to God
    Let's also inject some cynicism into the timing of the immigration bill. It's a smoke and mirror tactic to distract Congress from other affairs. Shouldn't we be worrying about the progress in the War in Iraq? What about health care? I would prefer that the Congress occupy its time with more pressing affairs than our nation's more "marginal affairs"

    • In 2004, the Bush used the gay community as a divisive and scapegoating issue.
    • In 2007, Bush used the immigrant community as a divisive and scapegoating issue
    When will Bush stop waiving distractions at the nation?
     
  13. D_N Flay Table

    D_N Flay Table New Member

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    ahh, the race card, the only bullet in the gun of the people for the bill.
     
  14. B_NineInchCock_160IQ

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    Ah.. the "race card" card.. favorite bullet of racists.
     
  15. SpeedoGuy

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    I just have to laugh at voters who are suddenly up in arms about illegal immigration, as if it hadn't been going on for decades. Their reaction is much like when they suddenly decided that Saddam was a brutal and dictatorial thug, as if he hadn't been so for decades.

    I wonder what divisive sideshow will distract us next?
     
  16. dong20

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    Well yes, but in terms of the consequences and severity of the other laws being broken in the US, and elsewhere I'd say immigration laws are, in comparison, small potatoes.

    In the absence of a channel at the border marked criminal foreigners and another marked law abiding foreigners, that argument seems somewhat redundant.

    Certainly, committing an illegal act is perhaps not the best start in a new home but as a neighbour I'd prefer an otherwise law abiding 'illegal' than a native citizen cum axe murderer/rapist/childmolester.

    I recall saying that if a nation has immigration laws they should be enforced, fairly and firmly. The problem is by and large it's evident that they're not. Whether that's because they can't be, because it's inconvenient, or because actually, it's recognised they are simply unenforceable, perhaps even to some degree undesirable. That seems a better question.

    Exactly.

    As for those celebrating, enjoy it while you can...:rolleyes:
     
  17. YourAvgGuy

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    I am truly in favor of us having governing laws, however, I do disagree when we make those laws more favorable for some and not for others. Many members of Congress have broken laws but their consequences are far less reaching and punishable than what is proposed here. Do you not think that America has not been the agent of less law-abiding rules and regulations? Our history is full of it.

    All I am suggesting is that we be cognizant about our views and look at things conceptually. It does not seem we have a grasp on that ideology yet. Maybe I am wrong; maybe I am not.

    Besides, laws are up for interpretation. Whoever has the most power and the better argument wins by default, regardless of logic and morality. Simple fact.
     
  18. SteveHd

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    The people have spoken? I don't remember a national plebiscite. And I don't think I have c/r/s syndrome this time.
     
  19. SpeedoGuy

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    When a cause backed by conservatives prevails, its "...the people have spoken."

    Anything else: "...a defeat for America and a victory for special interests."

    But as the conservatives saddle up for a self-rightous prance around the capitol dome, remember that this might prove a hollow victory in the long run. Penny wise and pound foolish. The racism evident in so many debates about immigration will likely only serve to anger Hispanics, a group that once might have been a fertile growth area for Republicans.
     
  20. B_big dirigible

    B_big dirigible New Member

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    It looks like it.

    There are other arguments to be made, and they have in the past been made; mainly economic and law-enforcement concerns. But those are perhaps too sophisticated. The old fallback position, the ridiculous assertion that it's all good ol' racism, is now the primary argument. Or rather accusation, as it hardly rises to the level of an argument.
     
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