The people that say "the USA sucks" rant

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by D_Marazion Analdouche, Jun 15, 2008.

  1. D_Marazion Analdouche

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    For a little about me please see my "USA is the best country thread".

    This whole debate works both ways, I would like people that keeping saying we are the greatest nation in the world to STFU, but this thread is about people that say the USA sucks, you can STFU too.

    Yes, we have our issues, yes we sometimes fit the "ugly american" sterotype. But in the same breath in some ways we have earned it.

    I agree we sometimes stick our nose in places that it doesn't belong and we get a little pushy with projecting our way of life. However, think about it for a few minutes next time you say the US sucks. Think about all the times we DID stick our noses in certain places and what would have happened if we didn't.

    What would the world be like as a hole if we did not get involved in WWI or WWII? In the past 100+ years no nation has sacrificed as many of its sons and daughters for the cause of other nations as the US has. We provide more aid to nations in need than any other nation as well, even nations that "don't like us". I am not talking tax dollars that are sent over, as a % we are not as high as other nations. I am talking from a civilian standpoint and what we give to international charities on top of what we give as a nation from tax dollars.

    We are arguably one the most hated/scrutinized country in the world. Even with 9/11 we still more or less have an open boarder policy, which I don't like at all. We have social issues but we are also the most diverse country in the world, which is what leads to these issues. There are a lot of other countries out there that practice heinous acts against minorities and women. Again, yes we have our share of social issues, but if you compare the scale, well, you can't. We don't beat our women for showing their faces in public, we don't massacre and bury 100s of our own civilians because they belong to another religion/clan/sect etc.

    We are the country people love to hate until they need us. Then they pick up the batphone and expect us to make sacrifices again because they are in need.

    I've stated this before, I would like to pull all of our resources within our borders for 5 years and see what happens. I'm guessing it wouldn't be pretty.

    So yes, we have issues, we are far from perfect. Granted, we need to look at ourselves before judging other nations and their way of life. However, we have also paid a high price to make sure other nations were/are able to live the way they want why staring in the face of being eliminated or being occupied. Mistakes happen, but you know what shut the fuck up, we've earned the right to make some here and there. Regardless of mistakes we've made and/or are making the world is in fact better off due to us being involved. Again, look at it with an open mind and try to imagine what would things be like if we turned a blind eye to everything during the past 100 years......answer that honestly. Before judging the US, you need to self reflect as well, a country doesn't exsist that hasn't made horrible mistakes.

    Signed,

    A 4th generation Veteran.
     
  2. porter111

    porter111 New Member

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    Veteran,

    I'm 24 and proud to be american, we saved europe from hitler, my grandpa was a part of that, we are heroes we should be proud. We've given millions in aid to africa and poorer countries and done a lot for the rest of the world. Yes I do think our system of capitalism is out of control greed, some of our american companies put money before people and that isn't healthy. I also think going into iraq was a mistake, its apparent bush and his administration hyped intelligence, his own guy mcellelan came out and admitted this. That was a mistake and we shoulda kept our big fat noses out of it. But at the end of the day we are a great country, and have a lot of great people here, the europeans shouldn't bash us so much, even if they disagree with our policies, afterall without us they would be under rule of hitler and the nazis, our good in the world outweights our bad, if you take out iraq.

    porter
     
  3. 1BiGG1

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    Iraq is one segment of a 2+ thousand year old problem known as wacky religious factions in power. This wasn’t that big of a deal until the last decade or so as the nut-jobs within the factions couldn’t mount an army to worry about.

    Today is different, the nut-jobs don’t need an army to wreck havoc here or anywhere else in the world, they just need a giant checkbook and easy access to WMD which are both readily available.

    You may not agree what George & Company is doing in the Middle East right now as no war is pretty, but history will reflect kindly on them for their efforts in this area.

    Another Multi-Generation Veteran
     
  4. vince

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    Another good post. I agree with a lot of what you say. Americans have been and are generous towards many other countries. WW2 (not 1) would have been lost to the Axis if it weren't for the U.S. There are many other situations where nations/people in need have been helped by Americans.

    However, what bugs me is when some Americans go about saying the the rest of the world would have gone to hell in a handbasket if it weren't for them. Lots of other nations have done good lots of good works and make many sacrifices as well. For example, in WW1 & 2, my country, Canada, lost more soldiers per capita than the US. We were in both wars for years before the US. Yet so often we get told by ignorant people that the US saved our ass. Well, we did what we could and pulled our weight. So did Australia and many other nations who were not directly invaded by the Axis. The US was the biggest and therefore contributed the most. And thank God for that. But don't rub our noses in it.

    I am not talking about you Wartrac. You seem to have a perspective that sees both sides. I'm talking about the blind "love it or leave it" types who only want to believe what they want to believe.

    Being the richest and most influential country, the US as a great effect on the lives of people around the world. It is to be expected that what you guys do concerns us. If America takes some action that directly effects me, I am going to have something to say about it. It's normal. Americans have no problem commenting on events overseas, so they should expect it to work both ways.

    Folks from other countries can be just as ignorant of America as Americans are of them. So a lot of dumb shit gets said on both sides.
     
  5. D_Marazion Analdouche

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    Couldn't agree more. Nations such as Canada have fought along side us through many a conflict. It's not fair to say they haven't contributed enough or need to do more when the total population is only at about 10-15% of ours? I don't have a complaint about what other nations due, I just don't like it when they basically shit on us until they need us.

    There are people like that on both sides of then fence on this issue.

    Of course, as in my other thread, I will be the first to critize this country. I just don't how right or wrong we are held up to a standard of not being able to make mistakes.

    Heh, if that isn't the truth I don't know what is.
     
  6. tripod

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    Actually Russia was the country that put the greatest hurtin' on the German military machine. It is more correct to say that if Russia didn't enter WWII on the Allied side that Hitler would have been able to turn his entire force on the Americans and Brits. Most historians will tell you that the outcome to WWII would have been VERY different.

    Don't forget that Woodrow Wilson wanted France top pay back as much of it's WWI loan debt back in full. France knew that it couldn't make the payments and the U.S., Britain and France turned to Germany to make the reparations. Germany was devastated by this news and most men in Germany vowed to seek revenge. There were some prominent members of the British parliament that remarked at the time of the singing of Treaty of Versailles that a 20 year armistice had been set into motion instead of the end to the war that Wilson sought. His league of Nations was a failure and had no teeth of which to enforce the post war military conditions of which Germany was to comply with. The League of Nations was a failure because of infighting in the United States congress.

    America committed some serious blunders at the end of WWI that some historians would clearly say did a good part to bring about Germany's aggression in the next war.

    All other wars were fought out of greed and idealism. The United States has never fought a war on the behalf of a stricken people. We absolutely do NOT come to the aid of people in other countries. The United States entered WWII to save our country, not to save the people of Europe.
     
  7. Drifterwood

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    Telling everyone else to Shut the Fuck Up because you believe you have the answers is an interesting perspective.
     
  8. D_Marazion Analdouche

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    That arguement works both ways, if the US didn't get involved (and countries such as Canada, Australia, UK etc) causing Hitler to fight on two fronts, Russia would have been wiped off the face of the earth. They lost something like what, over 20 million people as it was.

    I'm not saying mistakes weren't made. But I don't see anything that occured that would "bring" about anything that Nazi Germany did during WWII to include starting it. As and example, using the argument of taking away Germany's ability to create a war machine made them start a war is like saying Jeff Dahmer killed and ate people cause they took human steaks out of grocery stores and told him he couldn't have human flesh anymore. Nothing after WWI gave Germany justification to invade other countries and murder millions of civilians.

    We could have stayed at home and waited, focused completely on the A-Bomb and then just picked over the mess after nuking Germany. Yes we did it to save our own ass, but we didn't have to get involved when we did. Let's also not cloud the conversation completely. This is more about what makes up a nation, the civilians and the soldiers that protect them. Regardless of politcal reasons, we have always have been a nation of people that will run to the aid of others. Even with a draft, there are always people that sign up because they feel that it's the right thing to do. Ask a Vet of WWII that liberated concentration camps and ask them if they thought we were helping people.

    Like I said, I am not talking politics, I'm talking about a nation of people. I dare anyone to find a country who has perfect politians, they don't exist anywhere.
     
  9. Drifterwood

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    Sept 3, 1939 - Britain, France, Australia and New Zealand declare war on Germany.

    Sept 4, 1939 - British Royal Air Force attacks the German Navy.
    Sept 5, 1939 - United States proclaims neutrality; German troops cross the Vistula River in Poland.

    Then a long way down the timeline.

    Dec 8, 1941 - United States and Britain declare war on Japan.
    Dec 11, 1941 - Germany declares war on the United States.


    The History Place - World War Two in Europe Timeline
     
  10. B_Artful Dodger

    B_Artful Dodger New Member

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    Laughable really...
     
  11. D_Marazion Analdouche

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    Not really sure what your point is.

    Not really sure what your point is.
     
  12. Drifterwood

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    I am not surprised.
     
  13. craig_uk

    craig_uk Member

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    The Soviet Union did not side with the Allies, they initially sided with Hitler and supported his invasion of Poland. It was Hitler who broke this alliance with a surprise attack on Russia. This was Hitler's decision not Stalin's.

    I don't think there is any doubt that the outcome could have been very different for any number of reasons and it took several countries working together to win WWII. If Britain had not declared War on Germany in support of Poland what would have happened? If Britain had capitulated and collaborated like France did what would have happened?

    I am pretty sure people saying "we did more than you" is going to produce more heat than light.
     
  14. 1BiGG1

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    The US really entered the war in 1940 by extending a huge line-of-credit to Great Briton which they used to buy all types guns, ammunition & merchant ships amongst other critical supplies. President Roosevelt also got the “Lend-Lease” act through Congress which gave the Brits around 100 of our US Navy destroyers. Private American industry also produced tens of thousands of trucks and other vehicles for this effort.

    ALSO: Lets not forget who that was that played an important role in mechanizing the Soviet Army as well.
     
    #14 1BiGG1, Jun 15, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2008
  15. lucky8

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    Whatev. Screw the haters, America is the most efficient country in the world. I'd be pissed too if my country had been around for a 1000 years and still can't amount to what we've done in a little over 200...
     
  16. D_Marazion Analdouche

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    Are you capable of explaining your thoughts or are you just good at copying and pasting dates and links from other websites?

    Your ability to converse is extraordinary :rolleyes:
     
  17. ManlyBanisters

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    This is completely true - If you wanted to talk about America 'saving' Europe you might be better saying that the American presence in Europe after the fall of Berlin prevented the Russians from continuing westwards.

    Interesting? Is it? Perhaps you meant 'irritating'?
     
  18. ManlyBanisters

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    That is not true.

    Russia is MUCH, MUCH harder to invade and occupy than any other country in Europe (perhaps the world?). Ask Napoleon.

    Do you know anything about the siege of Stalingrad? Do you know how hard Russian winters are? Do you know how many Germans died besieging Stalingrad when they should have just been able to bulldoze it? Do you know nothing of the Russian 'tactics' of not giving a shit how many infantry men die because they have more men to replace them than the enemy ever could?

    The Nazis never would have taken the Soviet Union - not Stalin's Soviet Union.
     
  19. D_Marazion Analdouche

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    I missed this one.

    I have two threads, telling people on extremes of the point of view to shut the fuck up. It falls into every topic, the people that take extreme stances on either side of an opinion are closed minded individuals that cannot be reasoned with.

    If you read my other thread you will see that my opinion covers both of these extremes regarding this subject.

    Thanks for playing.
     
  20. B_Demention

    B_Demention New Member

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    Every nation thinks they're the heroes - the Brits are convinced they won WWII as are the Americans. The reality is that nobody would've achieved a damn thing without the cooperation of all involved. I will say that in the States, we do a very good job of excluding other countries in terms of giving them the recognition and appreciation they deserve when it comes to world events. Kids here grow up thinking the US won everything. We got our asses handed to us in Vietnam even though we made it seem like we acted nobley and altruistically, and no doubt we'll spin some nice story about the events in Iraq to make it look like we did a good job there in years to come. We have a bad case of Americentrism that'll never fully disappear and the media bias here is much stronger than it is in other countries. Having said that, we do lots of good things as well - it's just that recent events (and government) have made everyone distrust us to the point where any positives are overlooked and/or taken for granted, which is not exactly okay either.
     
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