The police misconduct thread

[socalfreak]

And some more from those "peaceful, innocent"folks..

 

[socalfreak]

So classy...

 

[socalfreak]

But, no...it can't be, right cal?
Cuz that never happened...hmm

 

[socalfreak]

Go ahead....Try and explain this away...

 

[socalfreak]

There you go, cal...
Several accounts of similar, deplorable events originating from these peaceful souls. Please....
I don't want an admission that you were wrong...because, quite frankly, from reading your post history,I know you don't have the integrity to do so.
All I ask is that you try and stick to your offer to "shut up."...(but I am extremely doubtful you will do that.).

Did you REALLY think that, with all the different groups involved, there wouldn't be at least a few ass-hats out there saying stupid shit like "time to kill a cop"???
Are you truly that naive?
Or did you just lie about trying to find any info?
Incompetent? Or lazy and dishonest?
Eh....doesn't matter. Because you're going to follow through on your word and "shut up" now.....right?
Bye.

 

[JTalbain]

Making a point Socialfreak? Something about victim blaming?

I think that this is the main difference between us: I see those stories where people are calling for the deaths of police officers and think of how awful it is that trust has eroded between the populace and the people who have sworn to protect and serve them. I wonder whether or not any future incidents could spark riots that could kill hundreds of people. Will the police roll in with military hardware to stop it? How much will the police have to do to regain the trust of the populace and stop being seen as a threat? How many more people will be killed before that happens?

Meanwhile, you post links to stories (sorry, links of screenshots of links to stories) which seem to imply a link between a certain ethnicity and violence...

I think you probably know what everyone will think of you. The TOS just forbids us from saying it directly.

 

[socalfreak]

Making a point Socialfreak? Something about victim blaming?

I think that this is the main difference between us: I see those stories where people are calling for the deaths of police officers and think of how awful it is that trust has eroded between the populace and the people who have sworn to protect and serve them. I wonder whether or not any future incidents could spark riots that could kill hundreds of people. Will the police roll in with military hardware to stop it? How much will the police have to do to regain the trust of the populace and stop being seen as a threat? How many more people will be killed before that happens?

Meanwhile, you post links to stories (sorry, links of screenshots of links to stories) which seem to imply a link between a certain ethnicity and violence...

I think you probably know what everyone will think of you. The TOS just forbids us from saying it directly.

Had you read the exchange between myself and the other member, you wouldn't look nearly as foolish as you do right now.

 

[socalfreak]

Making a point Socialfreak? Something about victim blaming?

I think that this is the main difference between us: I see those stories where people are calling for the deaths of police officers and think of how awful it is that trust has eroded between the populace and the people who have sworn to protect and serve them. I wonder whether or not any future incidents could spark riots that could kill hundreds of people. Will the police roll in with military hardware to stop it? How much will the police have to do to regain the trust of the populace and stop being seen as a threat? How many more people will be killed before that happens?

Meanwhile, you post links to stories (sorry, links of screenshots of links to stories) which seem to imply a link between a certain ethnicity and violence...

I think you probably know what everyone will think of you. The TOS just forbids us from saying it directly.

And this...

 

[Fuzzy_]

Cleveland officer facing trial in 137-shot barrage says he cannot recall shooting

From the article:

Officer Michael Brelo told investigators he couldn’t remember standing on the hood and firing the final 15 rounds of a 137-shot barrage down into the windshield – even though a rookie cop told those same investigators that Brelo talked about it days afterward.

“It’s possible,” Brelo said when questioned by investigators two weeks after the November 2012 shooting, “because I was so terrified that I was going to get run over. But I don’t recall that, sir.”

Brelo, 31, goes on trial on Monday on two counts of voluntary manslaughter for the deaths of Timothy Russell, 43, and Malissa Williams, 30. He is the lone officer among the 13 who fired their weapons that night who is charged criminally, because prosecutors say he stood on the hood and opened fire four seconds after the other officers had stopped shooting.
A judge – not a jury – will decide whether Brelo is guilty or innocent.
​

Should anyone starting a high-speed chase be killed? Maybe, maybe not. One thing is for sure, the passenger didn't deserve to be killed. At hand is the issue of whether or not Brelo is guilty of manslaughter. He stood on the car's hood and unloaded 15 rounds at the two unarmed people in the car.


White cop, black victims, "cop felt threatened", yadda...

 

[Calboner]

There you go, cal...
Several accounts of similar, deplorable events originating from these peaceful souls. Please....
I don't want an admission that you were wrong...because, quite frankly, from reading your post history,I know you don't have the integrity to do so.
All I ask is that you try and stick to your offer to "shut up."...(but I am extremely doubtful you will do that.).

Did you REALLY think that, with all the different groups involved, there wouldn't be at least a few ass-hats out there saying stupid shit like "time to kill a cop"???
Are you truly that naive?
Or did you just lie about trying to find any info?
Incompetent? Or lazy and dishonest?
Eh....doesn't matter. Because you're going to follow through on your word and "shut up" now.....right?
Bye.

"Several accounts," from such sterling sources as Breitbart--a cesspool of pseudo-news about as reliable as Alex Jones (but perhaps that is a favorable comparison in your eyes). There is nothing "lazy" about refraining from looking to sources like those, and nothing industrious about collecting your "news" from them.

The only reports among these that pan out are those about the Trayvon Martin Organizing Committee (TMOC)--which was making its ugly noises in Manhattan, not in Ferguson, which, I remind you, was the subject of your original claim:

To be fair, they *were* marching and screaming chants about killing police in Ferguson.

More about TMOC here:

The Monsters Who Screamed for Dead Cops - The Daily Beast

The Origins Of The Alleged “Dead Cops” Chant

So, yes, there were some protesters in some city in the US, though not in the one that you were talking about, who were calling for the death of police.

I find it strange, though, that you regard the call for documentation as a provoking insult, and that you don't provide any from mainstream news sources when you claim that only laziness or dishonesty could fail to find it.

 

[JTalbain]

Had you read the exchange between myself and the other member, you wouldn't look nearly as foolish as you do right now.

Wow. Apparently people were busy while I was away and I missed about two pages of posts. While posting at 2am when I should have been sleeping. Please, carry on. :redface:

 

[lafever]

I'm aware about this particular case. The policemen who were "punished" said that they were just joking with each other and that their conversations were private.

I have noticed though that in the last ten years or so since I was an undergraduate in college, the police have acquired a lot of military-style weapons from the feds which causes so many more problems for all of us. Also it's my understanding that many police officiers these days were in the army and the marines during the last few middle-eastern wars and have a military style of reacting to violence on the streets. In fact I have an uncle who is a sniper for the LAPD. He's actually killed a guy in the line of duty. He had absolutely no remose about what he did. In fact he brags about his ability. Sorry, the police have huge problems in American culture. I try to stay away from police even when they're off duty. I can't trust them.

I have noticed too that many police officers these days were in the armed services, not all but some of which have PTSD.
In the armed services reporting PTSD is the equivelant to a civilian pilot reporting a UFO, which typicaly results in being grounded and/or being reprimanded along with threats of losing their job and benefits.
When a soldier is hired into the police department their behavior which is carried from combat is contagious if not infectious in law enforcement.
In combat training soldiers are taught in their sleep to kill without thought or reservation.
If anyone thinks a soldier can come home from a job that requires you specifically to kill, then given a job with a gun and a badge and expect them to turn their switch off from military training is delusional.
If anyone thinks that the militarization of our police departments is a good thing then they might want to check into the psychiatric ward.
The U.S. of America needs to reevaluate the implementing of military tactics in our society and understand that they're creating a war zone against our own people.
Here's a look into to the minds and attitudes of not all but some of the soldiers in combat overseas, it's disturbing in the least.
I should warn you that the link provided is not for the light hearted, the comments made by some soldiers as they're killing is a horrific norm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kelmEZe8whI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

C.

 

[TexanStar]

I have noticed too that many police officers these days were in the armed services, not all but some of which have PTSD.
In the armed services reporting PTSD is the equivelant to a civilian pilot reporting a UFO, which typicaly results in being grounded and/or being reprimanded along with threats of losing their job and benefits.
When a soldier is hired into the police department their behavior which is carried from combat is contagious if not infectious in law enforcement.
In combat training soldiers are taught in their sleep to kill without thought or reservation.
If anyone thinks a soldier can come home from a job that requires you specifically to kill, then given a job with a gun and a badge and expect them to turn their switch off from military training is delusional.
If anyone thinks that the militarization of our police departments is a good thing then they might want to check into the psychiatric ward.
The U.S. of America needs to reevaluate the implementing of military tactics in our society and understand that they're creating a war zone against our own people.
Here's a look into to the minds and attitudes of not all but some of the soldiers in combat overseas, it's disturbing in the least.
I should warn you that the link provided is not for the light hearted, the comments made by some soldiers as they're killing is a horrific norm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kelmEZe8whI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

C.

I think this is way off base (you can educate yourself more about PTSD here: Research on PTSD, Aggression, and Violence - PTSD: National Center for PTSD).

In my anecdotal experience, you get a lot of assholes on power trips that go into criminal justice programs. They see the world very black & white (sometimes as a metaphor for race too) and they see themselves as the good guy and every non-officer on the planet as the bad guy. You give them a badge and bad things start happening and get worse over time.

It's a profession that attracts the exact kind of people you don't want working in that profession, and not all police departments maintain the proper zeal in keeping those types off the force. Sheriff's departments especially can make piss poor choices about who they deputize.

And then you have a strong police union throwing their weight against discipline of people that need to be booted out the feckin door, and yeah.

But not military PTSD...

 

[lafever]

I think this is way off base (you can educate yourself more about PTSD here: Research on PTSD, Aggression, and Violence - PTSD: National Center for PTSD).

In my anecdotal experience, you get a lot of assholes on power trips that go into criminal justice programs. They see the world very black & white (sometimes as a metaphor for race too) and they see themselves as the good guy and every non-officer on the planet as the bad guy. You give them a badge and bad things start happening and get worse over time.

It's a profession that attracts the exact kind of people you don't want working in that profession, and not all police departments maintain the proper zeal in keeping those types off the force. Sheriff's departments especially can make piss poor choices about who they deputize.

And then you have a strong police union throwing their weight against discipline of people that need to be booted out the feckin door, and yeah.

But not military PTSD dude...

You're wrong if you think the National Center for PTSD which by the way is run by the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs is going to do anything but try and soften the truth about PTSD.


Research Findings on PTSD and Violence
Sonya Norman, PhD, Eric B. Elbogen, PhD and Paula P. Schnurr, PhD
Overview

Individuals with PTSD are not dangerous. Although PTSD is associated with an increased risk of violence, the majority of Veterans and non-Veterans with PTSD have never engaged in violence. When other factors like alcohol and drug misuse, additional psychiatric disorders, or younger age are considered, the association between PTSD and violence is decreased.
How is violence defined?

Violence is inflicting or threatening to inflict serious physical harm on another person. Examples include beating someone, physically forcing someone to have sex, or using or threatening to use a gun or knife (1).
When reviewing research or media reports about violence and PTSD, it is important to pay close attention to how violence is defined. Milder forms of aggression such as slapping, threatening to throw something, or pushing have sometimes been labeled as violence. Similarly, criminal behavior has sometimes been used interchangeably with violence even though most criminal behavior is non-violent. Including these behaviors in measures of violence falsely inflates reported rates of violence among people with and without PTSD.
Understanding violence and PTSD

The best epidemiological evidence on violence and PTSD comes from studies of the U.S. general population and of post-9/11 Veterans in the U.S. and the United Kingdom. According to these studies, the prevalence of violence among individuals with PTSD ranged from 7.5% among US adults to 8.6% to 19.5% among post-9/11 Veterans (2-4). In the same studies, the prevalence of violence ranged from 2.0% in US adults with no mental health disorders and 3.0 to 6.4% among post-9/11 Veterans without PTSD.
There have been no comparable studies of PTSD and violence in other Veteran cohorts. However, a large epidemiological study of Vietnam and Vietnam-era Veterans that was conducted in the mid-1980s examined intimate partner violence (ranging from slapping and pushing to using a knife or gun), and found that 33.0% of Veterans with PTSD compared to 13.5% of those without PTSD reported intimate partner violence in the past year (1).
Interpreting findings on the relationship between PTSD and violence

Individuals with PTSD have an elevated prevalence of risk factors that are associated with increased violence, such as substance misuse and comorbid psychiatric disorders. Because of this, findings regarding the relationship between PTSD and violence should be interpreted cautiously if they are based on analyses that do not take risk factors other than PTSD into account. For example, in one study of Veterans who served post-9/11, PTSD when examined on its own was associated with an increased risk of violence. However, when alcohol misuse was statistically controlled, PTSD was no longer associated with an increased risk of violence (3). The prevalence of violence in PTSD is comparable to the prevalence in anxiety and depressive disorders, which ranges from 5.0% to 11.7% (2,5). The prevalence of violence is higher among individuals with alcohol or substance misuse (range = 9.1% to 34.7%) (2,6,7). Furthermore, the more diagnoses someone has, the greater the likelihood of violence.
Considerations regarding violence among post-9/11 Veterans with PTSD

The data showing that the prevalence of violence among individuals with PTSD is 7.5% in the US population and 19.5% in post-9/11 Veterans suggest that the association between PTSD and violence is especially strong in this Veteran cohort. However, to understand these findings, it is important to consider that post-9/11 Veterans are relatively young (median age = 34) and that younger age is associated with increased risk of violence (2-4). For example, in the National Comorbidity Survey of the US general population, the prevalence of violence in the past year was 32.7% among men between the ages of 25-34 but only 1.3% among men aged 35-44 (2). Findings like these suggest that age and perhaps other demographic characteristics need to be considered when comparing the post-9/11 cohort with non-Veterans or with Veterans of other eras.
Conclusions

Although PTSD is associated with increased risk of violence, most people with PTSD have never engaged in violence. Research suggests that when risk and protective factors correlated with PTSD are considered, the association between PTSD and violence diminishes (2,3). Consequently, it is important to consider a wide array of risk factors in addition to PTSD in order to understand the relationship between PTSD and violence.


C.

 

[TexanStar]

Of the cases of police misconduct in this thread, would you care to share how many of those were committed by military veterans turned police officers, and of those, how many had PTSD?

From my view, these are the same police asshole/bullies that have always been joining the force whether we're at times of war or times of peace.

It's not some guy having flashbacks to some suicide bombing in the middle east, it's some racist asshole shooting a black guy that he considers more animal than human.

 

[Boobalaa]

Of the cases of police misconduct in this thread, would you care to share how many of those were committed by military veterans turned police officers, and of those, how many had PTSD?

From my view, these are the same police asshole/bullies that have always been joining the force whether we're at times of war or times of peace.

It's not some guy having flashbacks to some suicide bombing in the middle east, it's some racist asshole shooting a black guy that he considers more animal than human.

except when the unfortunate victims are white mentally ill women and teenagers mentally ill men and teenagers, mentally ill foreign language speakers/ English second language learners; either holding, potatoes peelers screw drivers, cordless power drills, scissors, cell phone, rocks, or just failing to respond to commands in two seconds or less, in the presence of family members at their place of residence.

 

[LadyJesseQuinn]

In my anecdotal experience, you get a lot of assholes on power trips that go into criminal justice programs. They see the world very black & white (sometimes as a metaphor for race too) and they see themselves as the good guy and every non-officer on the planet as the bad guy. You give them a badge and bad things start happening and get worse over time.

It's a profession that attracts the exact kind of people you don't want working in that profession, and not all police departments maintain the proper zeal in keeping those types off the force. Sheriff's departments especially can make piss poor choices about who they deputize.

And then you have a strong police union throwing their weight against discipline of people that need to be booted out the feckin door, and yeah.

But not military PTSD...

I'm inclined to agree. Apparently there are no concrete stats regarding the number of veterans who join the police force (the Bureau of Labor Statistics doesn't keep precise statistics on the number of veterans employed in law enforcement, instead lumping together the classification with wardens, school crossing guards and other security jobs. source) but either way I don't see a strong causal connection between PTSD and police violence. In order to prove that you'd need to know a) how many veterans become police officers and b) how many of those veterans are involved in occurrences of police brutality.

My anecdotal experience bears out your own, I used to do security work back when I was in school and most of my colleagues fit into two groups: the massively educated older peeps living the new immigrant nightmare and young guys who wanted to be cops and did security work while they pursued that career.

I saw far too many of the latter group exacerbating tense situations or provoking conflict because they enjoyed it, they craved power and they aspired to join the police service because they saw the badge as an excuse to throw their weight around.

Of course many officers join the force with the best of intentions, but the bullies are let in as well and the institution of policing is not set up to deal with them in a manner that fully protects the public. Case in point, in Toronto in order to make a complaint against a police officer you have to direct that complain to the officer's direct superior. Considering the comradery and 'thin blue line' mentality inherent to most police forces, it doesn't take much imagination to figure out how that turns out.

 

[vince]

Had you read the exchange between myself and the other member, you wouldn't look nearly as foolish as you do right now.

I read the exchange. You've been owned son. Post a link to a real news story, or stfu.

 

[Calboner]

Another police shooting and killing of a black guy in S.Carolina. The cop shot the guy in the back. Scary shit to me.

There's a video of that getting his back full of bullets here. It may as well be titled "What doesn't happen to white guys." Who knows how many times this sort of thing happened before mobile phones became so common. This apparent assassination can't be swept under the rug.

Don't miss the fact that the police department initially was taking the line that the victim seized the officer's taser and tried to use it against him. Here is a news story that reflects what the police told the press before the video became known:

Man shot and killed by North Charleston police officer after traffic stop; SLED investigating - Post and Courier

An officer’s gunfire disrupted a hazy Saturday morning and left a man dead on a North Charleston street.

Police in a matter of hours declared the occurrence at the corner of Remount and Craig roads a traffic stop gone wrong, alleging the dead man fought with an officer over his Taser before deadly force was employed. . . .

A statement released by North Charleston police spokesman Spencer Pryor said a man ran on foot from the traffic stop and an officer deployed his department-issued Taser in an attempt to stop him.

That did not work, police said, and an altercation ensued as the men struggled over the device. Police allege that during the struggle the man gained control of the Taser and attempted to use it against the officer.

The officer then resorted to his service weapon and shot him, police alleged.

If it hadn't been for the guy recording this on his phone, the North Charleston police would still be saying that.

 

[vince]

Don't miss the fact that the police department initially was taking the line that the victim seized the officer's taser and tried to use it against him. Here is a news story that reflects what the police told the press before the video became known:

Man shot and killed by North Charleston police officer after traffic stop; SLED investigating - Post and Courier

If it hadn't been for the guy recording this on his phone, the North Charleston police would still be saying that.

The story given out by the department didn't mention a word about the victim being shot in the back (eight times was it?) while running away either.