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The President's Health Plan Won’t Cut the Budget Deficit

Trinity

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The Doc Fix and Cadillac Tax are explained along with other reasons why:

The President's Health Plan Won’t Cut the Budget Deficit

What the president’s plan would deliver, however, is dead-certain entitlement spending, financed with speculative revenue and spending cuts that almost certainly will not work as advertised. The president says Congress should pass his plan to improve the budget outlook. In fact, Congress should reject it to protect the budget from more unfunded entitlement obligations.

This short article explains why Obamascare is utter LUNACY!!
 

B_talltpaguy

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Oh brother...

When this guy starts working for the CBO, let me know. Until then, I'll stick with the people who actually know what the hell they are talking about.
 

Trinity

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B_talltpaguy

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Lol... Yeah, a Bush political appointee will lead us to the light!
 
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midlifebear

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The He/She and Holy It has a ton of unsecured credit card debt; a first and second mortgage; and continues to trade in its car for a new one before the old one is ever paid for.

Just thought everyone should know. :biggrin1:
 

Trinity

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Lol... Yeah, a Bush political appointee will lead us to the light!

The article is clear and concise on the issues...if you can refute them then give it your best shot. When people can't...they just say Bush...which really doesn't work. :rolleyes:
 

B_talltpaguy

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It does when you review the fiscal record of the nation under this guy's watch. To have one's opinion respected, one must first display performance worthy of respect.


Hey, I have an idea! Let's listen to Jimmy Carter's advice on how to handle the Iranians! (get it?)
 
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Trinity

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It does when you review the fiscal record of the nation under this guy's watch. To have one's opinion respected, one must first display performance worthy of respect.


Hey, I have an idea! Let's listen to Jimmy Carter's advice on how to handle the Iranians! (get it?)

Your reliance on "Bush" is ridiculous unless Obama was wrong to go with Gates and then KEEP Gates. :rolleyes: Get it?

You're relying on an OPINION piece from a HEALTH INSURANCE provider??? FUNNY!

The article is written by a well qualified expert who is relying on concrete information from Obamascare. If you can refute the article then give it your best shot.

Oh and you relying on Obama's mess of bills and proposals is even funnier!
 

B_talltpaguy

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Your reliance on "Bush" is ridiculous unless Obama was wrong to go with Gates and then KEEP Gates. :rolleyes: Get it?
This explains part of your problem. You're unable or unwilling to discern between an employee with good performance, and one with bad performance. Gates has done an excellent job at the Pentagon. Especially in comparison to the disastrous tenure of the clown Rumsfeld before him. On the other hand, this guy helped craft an economic policy that we've all just personally witnessed crash and burn. Sorry, but you're not going to convince anyone that he is the voice of reason in the healthcare debate, no matter how much you wish we would.
 

Trinity

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This explains part of your problem. You're unable or unwilling to discern between an employee with good performance, and one with bad performance. Gates has done an excellent job at the Pentagon. Especially in comparison to the disastrous tenure of the clown Rumsfeld before him. On the other hand, this guy helped craft an economic policy that we've all just personally witnessed crash and burn. Sorry, but you're not going to convince anyone that he is the voice of reason in the healthcare debate, no matter how much you wish we would.

Obama has no experience in running anything. Failure of economic policy? So far, Obama doesn't have a win. This article is written by someone who's been down the road and knows the perils that lay ahead with every decision. If you can't refute the article with anything Obama has...then saying "Bush" means nothing because according to Obama's low job approval, a majority of the American people will counter with "Obama" :mad: Stimulus Waste, Broken promises, Non Transparency, Unrealistic Economic Policy Agenda, Rejected Dem Healthcare Plan. :rolleyes:
 

B_talltpaguy

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^Seeing that you're changing the subject, I presume that you now are willing to stipulate that the guy you've propped up here isn't a compelling authority on healthcare. In fact, he's no authority at all.
 
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This article is written by someone who's been down the road and knows the perils that lay ahead with every decision.
NO, your article was written by a HEALTH INSURANCE PROVIDER who has a financial, vested interest in making sure that health care Reform fails. I would take anything they say with a BIG grain of salt because their primary job is to keep their profits up by using my health as a commodity on which to make MONEY.
 
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This was obviously what the entity known as Trinsanity did all through school....:wank::trink26::sleeping::adam4:because it sure didn't learn anything
 

B_VinylBoy

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Obama has no experience in running anything. Failure of economic policy? So far, Obama doesn't have a win. This article is written by someone who's been down the road and knows the perils that lay ahead with every decision. If you can't refute the article with anything Obama has...then saying "Bush" means nothing because according to Obama's low job approval, a majority of the American people will counter with "Obama" :mad: Stimulus Waste, Broken promises, Non Transparency, Unrealistic Economic Policy Agenda, Rejected Dem Healthcare Plan. :rolleyes:

Wait... I could have swore I saw you sing this on stage before. But the words were much different... :rolleyes:
 
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Trinity

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^Seeing that you're changing the subject, I presume that you now are willing to stipulate that the guy you've propped up here isn't a compelling authority on healthcare. In fact, he's no authority at all.

I didn't change the subject. I brought it back to the subject. The author of the article is both a compelling authority on healthcare and a qualified expert. If you can refute the article with anything from Obama and the Dems, give it your best shot.

NO, your article was written by a HEALTH INSURANCE PROVIDER who has a financial, vested interest in making sure that health care Reform fails. I would take anything they say with a BIG grain of salt because their primary job is to keep their profits up by using my health as a commodity on which to make MONEY.

No. It was not written by a Health Insurance Provider. It was written by a consultant who is an expert on domestic policy - in particular Healthcare.

If you can refute the article, give it your best shot.

oh, and regardless of the motives of Kaiser...it doesn't change the facts of Obamascare. The Doc Fix, the added taxes...the fact that it won't cut costs and costs too much.

If we want to reign in profits it won't be with the most rejected mess of bills and proposals that could collapse our economy and damage the quality of our healthcare worse than it all ready is. :rolleyes:
 

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I didn't change the subject. I brought it back to the subject. The author of the article is both a compelling authority on healthcare and a qualified expert. If you can refute the article with anything from Obama and the Dems, give it your best shot.
So, one of the architects of the budget time bomb crafted during the Bush years is the best you can come up with?
 
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I didn't change the subject. I brought it back to the subject.
If we want to reign in profits it won't be with the most rejected mess of bills and proposals that could collapse our economy and damage the quality of our healthcare worse than it all ready is. :rolleyes:
I don't want to reign in Profits. I want to eliminate them ENTIRELY. My health is NOT a commodity.
 

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I don't want to reign in Profits. I want to eliminate them ENTIRELY. My health is NOT a commodity.

If only single payer worked *sigh* Don't you live in Mass Indy? Or you did...

You know hasn't worked. A 25 year old will take the $950 penalty (some pay it, some don't even bother) rather than pay $3500 for healthcare by mandate to keep more of his salary. But then if that 25 year old actually gets sick, because insurers can't deny coverage for preconditions, they have to cover all their bills.

The young who are supposed to be spreading out the costs of the ill and the elderly are adding to the costs through the regulation.

average Massachusetts insurance premiums are now the highest in the nation. Since 2006, they’ve climbed at an annual rate of 30% in the individual market. Small business costs have increased by 5.8%. Per capita health spending in Massachusetts is now 27% higher than the national average, and 15% higher even after adjusting for local wages and academic research grants. The growth rate is faster too.
… As in Washington, the political class and providers blame insurers, but a better culprit is the state’s insurance regulation. Incredibly, the average “medical loss ratio” in Massachusetts for individual policies is 112%—that is, insurers pay $1.12 in benefits for every $1 in premiums.
This is the direct result of forcing insurers to charge everyone more or less the same rate regardless of age or health status, which makes it rational for people to wait to enroll until they need expensive coverage.
 

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So, one of the architects of the budget time bomb crafted during the Bush years is the best you can come up with?
If you can refute what he states in his article then have at it. :smile: Obama has his own budget time bomb according to the CBO. :rolleyes:
 

B_talltpaguy

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Show me a place on the planet where his proposal has already proven itself effective.

Good luck!
 
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If only single payer worked *sigh* Don't you live in Mass Indy? Or you did...

You know hasn't worked. A 25 year old will take the $950 penalty (some pay it, some don't even bother) rather than pay $3500 for healthcare by mandate to keep more of his salary. But then if that 25 year old actually gets sick, because insurers can't deny coverage for preconditions, they have to cover all their bills.

The young who are supposed to be spreading out the costs of the ill and the elderly are adding to the costs through the regulation.

Man oh man are you confused if you are comparing what we have in Massachusetts to a Single Payer system.
 

B_talltpaguy

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^lol... Next, we'll probably hear remarks about how the 'free market' in Alabama is so competitive and really allows 'consumers' to shop around for the best price when they're having that heart attack.
 

Trinity

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Show me a place on the planet where his proposal has already proven itself effective.

Good luck!

Do you even know what you are talking about?

Man oh man are you confused if you are comparing what we have in Massachusetts to a Single Payer system.

The system doesn't work in MA and costs are out of control (single payer plans suffer the same fate). Medicare is bankrupt. Obama won't even claim to support single payer anymore.

There is confusion - but it's not with me.
 
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Do you even know what you are talking about?



The system doesn't work in MA and costs are out of control (single payer plans suffer the same fate). Medicare is bankrupt. Obama won't even claim to support single payer anymore.

There is confusion - but it's not with me.
Your post implied that we had single payer in massachusetts which we only have if you are 65, or a veteran(as they have in EVERY state).One thing that DOES work in Massachusetts is the Mass Health Connector. The Dreaded By the right wing, health care exchange. I am self employed and wish to sell my business and move out of State But i can't. No one would sell insurance to a 52 yo man with some chronic health problems that would either cover those problems and not be stratospherically expensive. I currently get my insurance at a group rate through our local chamber of Commerce. If i were to sell my business i could go to the Connector and purchase the same insurance for basically the same price. YOU CANNOT BE TURNED DOWN FOR ANY REASON. So right now I'm stuck in massachusetts. If we had a NATIONAL FEDERAL exchange,perferably one with a public option, I would not be stuck where I am. But I'd still rather do away with Private insurance that only treats my health as a commodity on which to make a profit, trash the entire system and institute a National Single payer System.
 

B_talltpaguy

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Do you even know what you are talking about?

What I asked was a simple question, but the problem is, it can't be answered because the only proposal on the table which includes measures which have already been proven effective in other healthcare systems in the real world is the plan the Dems have come up with. The plans coming from the right are based on theory and imagination.

The cold, hard truth that you refuse to accept is that there isn't a successful 'free market' healthcare system on the planet. It simply doesn't exist. The US is the only remaining country in the industrialized world still beating its head against the 'free market' wall, stubbornly believing that by removing profit from the system, we magically increase the resources available to treat people(Only Orwell could explain that one). Every single other industrialized nation on the planet has switched to one government administered model or another.

So again, thanks for the hot tip that the Obama plan isn't perfect. You're not telling anyone anything they didn't already know... But what you're also not telling anyone is how any competing proposal you favor for reform does better. Talk is cheap, and utopian theories of a free market paradise are for senile college professors. Come with something real, or don't waste our time.
 
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Trinity

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Your post implied that we had single payer in massachusetts which we only have if you are 65, or a veteran(as they have in EVERY state).

I was actually implying that each time we try to change from our current system to incorporate the mechanisms of universal coverage like MA, it doesn't work. I've stated many times that Medicare is bankrupt because of some of these same mechanisms.

One thing that DOES work in Massachusetts is the Mass Health Connector. The Dreaded By the right wing, health care exchange. I am self employed and wish to sell my business and move out of State But i can't. No one would sell insurance to a 52 yo man with some chronic health problems that would either cover those problems and not be stratospherically expensive. I currently get my insurance at a group rate through our local chamber of Commerce. If i were to sell my business i could go to the Connector and purchase the same insurance for basically the same price. YOU CANNOT BE TURNED DOWN FOR ANY REASON. So right now I'm stuck in massachusetts. If we had a NATIONAL FEDERAL exchange,perferably one with a public option, I would not be stuck where I am. But I'd still rather do away with Private insurance that only treats my health as a commodity on which to make a profit, trash the entire system and institute a National Single payer System.

I hear you. But Medicare is Bankrupt. Social Security is insolvent. The other countries you like to hold up as examples are experiencing major problems that we cannot afford. We are too much in debt. We must have a plan that won't break us.

There is no way to cover an additional 36 million people by cutting Medicare by 500 Billion. Obama's budgets are underestimated by 1 TRILLION Dollars. The Democrats refuse to pay for their spending.

Everybody wants the best healthcare for the least amount of money. A majority of Americans would support everything you stated if they thought it was possible.

The Federal Govt does not run programs well. Other countries can't control costs and sacrifice care. I'm not willing to take a chance on my healthcare. I'd rather address pre-conditions, and the ability to buy insurance across state lines and other options for the uninsured.
 

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The article is clear and concise on the issues...if you can refute them then give it your best shot. When people can't...they just say Bush...which really doesn't work. :rolleyes:

Yeah... Bush really didn't work. That's the first intelligent point you've ever made on this board!:wink:
 
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I was actually implying that each time we try to change from our current system to incorporate the mechanisms of universal coverage like MA, it doesn't work. I've stated many times that Medicare is bankrupt because of some of these same mechanisms.



I hear you. But Medicare is Bankrupt. Social Security is insolvent. The other countries you like to hold up as examples are experiencing major problems that we cannot afford. We are too much in debt. We must have a plan that won't break us.

There is no way to cover an additional 36 million people by cutting Medicare by 500 Billion. Obama's budgets are underestimated by 1 TRILLION Dollars. The Democrats refuse to pay for their spending.

Everybody wants the best healthcare for the least amount of money. A majority of Americans would support everything you stated if they thought it was possible.

The Federal Govt does not run programs well. Other countries can't control costs and sacrifice care. I'm not willing to take a chance on my healthcare. I'd rather address pre-conditions, and the ability to buy insurance across state lines and other options for the uninsured.
I'm not willing to leave 36 million people(your number, it;s actually higher) with NO ACCESS to health insurance. You can't continue to say "We have the best health care in the world" when we keep so many uninsured.