The Public Option is very much ALIVE.

[Bbucko]

nothing wrong with letting a few folks die off, particularly those who are a drain on the system as it is. just like your lawn. you let th weeds grow it chokes out the whole lawn and everthing is fucked

I don't know about you guys, but I'm feeling the love.

 

[SilverTrain]

nothing wrong with letting a few folks die off, particularly those who are a drain on the system as it is. just like your lawn. you let th weeds grow it chokes out the whole lawn and everthing is fucked

So, volunteering, then?

 

[D_Cleon W Ballbreath IV]

nothing wrong with letting a few folks die off, particularly those who are a drain on the system as it is. just like your lawn. you let th weeds grow it chokes out the whole lawn and everthing is fucked

Wow. I haven't heard language like that since A Christmas Carol.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Wow. I haven't heard language like that since A Christmas Carol.

Gattaca came to my mind at first, although I suspect Big_e wouldn't make a good substitute for Ethan Hawke or Jude Law. Plus I doubt he would look good in heels, so Uma is out of the question. :biggrin1:

 

[MercyfulFate]

I could use the goddamn public option right now. I'm pretty much forced to have health insurance and actually need it, yet have to pay out the ass for it.

This sucks. Hard.

 

[Industrialsize]

I could use the goddamn public option right now. I'm pretty much forced to have health insurance and actually need it, yet have to pay out the ass for it.

This sucks. Hard.

Me too!..........I am self employed and have to buy my own insurance.....870 dollars a month plus 100 dollars in co-pays for prescriptions I take. 25 bucks a pop to see the doc. I see my regular doctor, I have a gi docto, a cardiologist and a therapist I see regularly. 100 co-pay for the ER, I've been 3 times this summer. 1000 dollar co pay for being in the hospitalized, I was in the hospital for 4 days in August after an accident.......I'm lucky enough to be able to afford my insurance, but just barely..

 

[MercyfulFate]

Me too!..........I am self employed and have to buy my own insurance.....870 dollars a month plus 100 dollars in co-pays for prescriptions I take. 25 bucks a pop to see the doc. I see my regular doctor, I have a gi docto, a cardiologist and a therapist I see regularly. 100 co-pay for the ER, I've been 3 times this summer. 1000 dollar co pay for being in the hospitalized, I was in the hospital for 4 days in August after an accident.......I'm lucky enough to be able to afford my insurance, but just barely..

That's absolutely insane, wow.

I'll be looking at a few hundred a month on unemployment and that doesn't seem so bad after your payments.

 

[cruztbone]

and the public option, with a comfortable majority in both popular opinion and common sense, will be become law by 2010. All you 20 percent of the American vote GOPers can go see if your health plan will pay for your incredible shrinkage. No wonder you worship LPSG so much.

 

[B_Nick8]

So, volunteering, then?

That's such a nicer way of putting the more traditional, "Die, Bitch, Die!".

 

[SilverTrain]

That's such a nicer way of putting the more traditional, "Die, Bitch, Die!".

Thanks, sweets.

 

[B_Nick8]

Thanks, sweets.

You're nothing if not the diplomat.

And, rightfully so.

 

[faceking]

I hope these words don't come back to bite me in the ass in a couple months, but, to all of those folks following the chess pieces on the board, today was an extremely optimistic day regarding the inclusion of a public option in a final healthcare bill.

If it does go thru, Dems should be VERY afraid in 2010.

85% like their healthcare
50% like Obama
25% like Congress


simple math....

 

[B_VinylBoy]

I like my healthcare too... but it could be better. And I wouldn't mind having the option to switch as do more than 70% of people in America. Fuzzy math.

 

[wispandex_bulge]

Everyone who drives is required to auto insurance. Doesn't that go against personal liberty? Even so, it looks like a pretty good idea. Everyone, even those without kids of their own, pay taxes to support public schools. Many, including every other industrialized nation, consider access to basic health care as fundamental a right as access to an education.

I'm not sure that requiring auto insurance is really all that necessary. All it really does is provide a pool of money for someone to sue into. I personally think its a good idea as it protects my assets from being depleted in the case of a major accident. You really dont want to point to public education as an example when you consider how horribly it has failed many of our students and is failing even more rapidly now in a time of budget crunches. Still I will say that society as a whole can benefit from a more intelligent, informed constituency, that might be worth subsidizing.

How do you figure that? There will be premiums just as there are for Medicare. That's all the public option is: Medicare for everyone.

How are people below poverty level and those earning uder about $25000 a year supposed to afford the premiums? Do you honestly think they will be THAT affordable? The MEDIAN income (that means 50% make more and 50% make less) is 32,000 (not sure if thats per capita or per household)...thats not a lot to live on. I just dont see how the goverment can offer good healthcare at a fraction of the cost without taxing a lot of middle income people or paying a caregivers and insitutions almost nothing.

What's it like working for Aetna?
Good pension plan? Stock options?

Come up with a real argument. Your tactic is classic.

 

[midlifebear]

From the Big E photos I conjecture his power lifting has started a series of problems -- beginning with hardening of his heart muscles -- and even the muscular butch boyze tend to have hypertension because muscle tissue (like fat) causes pressure on the kidneys. And then there is the tendency of muscle morphs to develop edema in their lower extremities which leads to blood clots and once they break loose a clot in the heart tends to be fatal. But the real joy is when the clot(s) make it to the brain and make folks like Big E even more mentally impaired than they normally are.

And despite Big E's belief that health care is not a right, I'm sure most of us realize he's spouting the Republican't lie. Health care for every citizen in such a highly industrialized society as ours is most definitely a right, as much a right as freedom of the speech, right to assembly, and the right to bear arms so you can protect yourself in case Big E comes a gunnin' for ya.

What a major tool. Careful Big E, we wouldn't want you to pop a pec.

 

[MercyfulFate]

If it does go thru, Dems should be VERY afraid in 2010.

85% like their healthcare
50% like Obama
25% like Congress


simple math....

You do realize that a public option would in no way make you change your insurance, right?

As I've said before, if we get no public option and a clause for mandatory insurance this will be a massive failure. We have mandatory insurance in Massachusetts, but costs have continued their upward climb.

Now people who couldn't afford insurance have to have it, or face a penalty. My cousin recently dropped his and decided to take the fine because it was cheaper.

The thought behind mandatory insurance seems to be that it will reduce strain on hospitals, but that hasn't been the case. What's worse is if a company based outside of the state employs people here, their insurance isn't required to meet minimum standards, one way they usually don't is incredibly high deductibles.

I'd much rather pay X number of dollars in taxes for insurance that's good, than pay $200 a month for fairly weak insurance. People saying it's a government takeover are fear mongers usually, ideally it should force insurance companies to better their services.

 

[wispandex_bulge]

People with chronic conditions are the last people to be expected to pay more for health insurance premiums.

So because I am a healthy young person, I should be penalized into paying more for healthcare because of someone else's bad situation? I hope you can see what a hard pill that is to swallow.

There exist in this country millions of people who are living with conditions that impair one's ability to earn a good living but who aren't nearly-dead enough yet to be put on disability and get SSDI/Medicare. The sick working poor are very unglamorous and do not have a voice in the discussion, let alone a seat at any tables where such important discussions and changes are actually made.

Their advocates are great in number and are soem of the most active participants in the debate. I am weary of the class warfare argument. Its hot headed, not fully rational, and sure to leave us worse off than we are. If you want to know what happens when we act on emotion without thinking it over completely, just look to the east and the two protracted wars we are in. I advocate slowing down. We could do a lot to help people who really need it with a lot less legislation than we are currently tryign to pass.

I know this because I'm one of them. I live with HIV, and have the arteries of a man in his 70s due to the side-effects of several medications I have taken in order to remain alive...Because of the good and great days and because I am loath to soak from a system that is demoralizing and ultimately dehumanizing, I'm still working. But because of the variety of issues and compromises I live with, my career is no longer a possibility for me, and last year my income was almost exactly 1/6th of what it was in 2002.

I am sad to hear of your situation, but am happy you are still so eager to do whatever you can. I understand that there are certain factors in our lives that we cannot control. I also must say that since I do not fully comprehend your situation, I cannot argue against it, but I can say that projecting the victim mentality is surely not going to get us to solve our problems, because when there is a victim we often try to assign blame, and more often than not, it gets misplaced, or we get legislation that is ineffectual.

And of course, I am ineligible for most any kind of health insurance: certainly nothing that would pay for any of the treatments and medications that I need.

Your income is really none of my business but if your current income is 1/6 of what it once was, you are either living with an income WAY below the poverty level right now, or you were earning close to 6 figures. Now one thing that I cannot stand, is when someone complains that they have it bad, when they could have very obviously done better. I am not saying that you necessarily could have done anythign better or planned for this situation. I am merely left wondering how you got from there(2002) to here...

Anyone who is concerned about my not understanding the consequences of my decisions or any reticence I feel regarding the subject of "personal responsibility" obviously doesn't have a clue as to what my daily life actually entails. I wouldn't wish one of my not-so-hot days on anybody, and they're hardly uncommon.

Regarding personal responsibility, and assuming you were a model citizen before the trouble began, are we to assume then that you now disavow personal responsibility and wish for your ailment to now be society's responsibility?

Universal health care wouldn't make my HIV go away. But it would allow me to get treatment for the chronic pain, GI issues and arterial disease that life has thrown my way, which in turn might allow me to work a better job and, incidentally, pay the kind of taxes I did 10-15 years ago.

Perhaps, but how can you be sure you would get what you need under a universal or public plan? If the goverment is planning on telling the hospitals what it thinks is fair compensation, I highly doubt the public plan will offer you much more than the most basic rudimentary care that is not much better than what you are currently receiving.

 

[wispandex_bulge]

50% like Obama

Actually most polls show that less than 50% like Obama, and more importantly the ratio of those who strongly disapprove to those who strongly approve is nearly 2:1 amonst independents. Support for the healthcare initiatives is also very poor, although the left woudl hardly have you beleive it saying that a majority support it. The truth is the majority ONLY supports it IF it only kicks in when someoen cannot get affordable health coverage ANY other way.

http://www.lpsg.org/154648-obamas-poll-numbers.html

 

[deleted15807]

So because I am a healthy young person, I should be penalized into paying more for healthcare because of someone else's bad situation? I hope you can see what a hard pill that is to swallow.

And since your house has never been on fire why should you pay for the fire department?

 

[MercyfulFate]

Actually most polls show that less than 50% like Obama, and more importantly the ratio of those who strongly disapprove to those who strongly approve is nearly 2:1 amonst independents. Support for the healthcare initiatives is also very poor, although the left woudl hardly have you beleive it saying that a majority support it. The truth is the majority ONLY supports it IF it only kicks in when someoen cannot get affordable health coverage ANY other way.

http://www.lpsg.org/154648-obamas-poll-numbers.html

Is there anything to back that up?

Also, define "affordable" because it's not one set number. What's affordable for you, may not be for me.