The pushback

[b.c.]

I created this thread and named it "The Pushback" instead of posting it in "The Resistance" even though some of the causes and concerns have similar origins. I did this in an attempt to avoid the political trappings of the latter, including the inevitable semantic debates over the word's origins and implications thereof.

The "pushback" I think, transcends politics.

It IS, rather, the GUT reaction on the part of MANY from various political leanings and walks of life, and in sometimes unexpected ways, to the apparent rise and seeming acceptance, endorsement, and DEFENSE of supremacist ideology, racism, bigotry, and antisemitism in our country. It is a REPULSION to all it entails.

This weekend in Charlottesville, we have seen up front the horrible specter of HATE and the consequences of it having been TOO long nurtured and coddled in political discourse.

And if the events in Charlottsville weren't outrage enough, the sight of nazi flag carrying demonstrators and the murder of Heather Heyer, we've ALSO witnessed it defended (more or less) from the White House, by the "would-be" who stoked and played upon these kinds of hate based sentiments to further his own political ambitions.

We've been outraged and as a nation, embarrassed, as IF there weren't plenty enough reason for embarrassment before:

And now some are pushing back and speaking out. Not that it's necessarily going to immediately change minds from a political perspective. But for now, some are doing and saying THE RIGHT THING.

A bit of good news, in a dearth of dismal. The pushback:

Father of white-nationalist Charlottesville marcher: He 'is not welcome at our family gatherings any longer'
A man was fired from his job after a photo of him at the deadly Charlottesville white-supremacist rally went viralBusiness Insider
Republicans and Democrats speak out after Trump faults 'many sides' at white nationalist rally
TIKI Torch Brand Just Issued An Official Response To Charlottesville White Supremacy Rally Confederate monuments taken down in Baltimore overnight - ABC News
US military service chiefs condemn racism, stand up for military values after Charlottesville - ABC News
RNC chairwoman Ronna Romney McDaniel to white supremacists: 'We don't want your vote' - ABC News
Bushes 'pray for Charlottesville' and 'reject racial bigotry' - ABC News
3M & Campbell's CEOs Resign from Trump Council * UPDATE: Councils Disband!
Heyer's mom: 'They tried to kill my child to shut her up—well, guess what, you just magnified her' Paypal officially bans accounts for racist sites after being used to fund Charlottesville 'rally' VA-Gov: Ralph Northam (D) Calls For Removal Of All Confederate Statues In Virginia
World leaders condemn neo-Nazism and violence in Charlottesville, and Trump's chaotic response - The Washington Post
Nightly News with Lester Holt: Trump's response to Charlottesville sparks anger and outrage
Nightly News with Lester Holt: They came from across Virginia, wearing purple for Heather Heyer
Nightly News with Lester Holt: Mass exodus of CEO's

 

[deleted37010]

Presidents George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush:
“America must always reject racial bigotry, anti-Semitism, and hatred in all forms"

 

[malakos]

Father of white-nationalist Charlottesville marcher: He 'is not welcome at our family gatherings any longer'

Essentially a selfish gesture. The real purpose is to feed his own outrage and sense of moral superiority. Ostracism is not anywhere near the set of approaches that would help his son realize his mistakes. If anything it will just dig his indignation and sense of enmity to mainstream society even deeper.

 

[Penis Aficionado]

I'm sure glad that paragon of virtue, George W. Bush, stood up and called out evil when he saw it.

 

[b.c.]

I'm sure glad that paragon of virtue, George W. Bush, stood up and called out evil when he saw it.

"Paragon of virtue" perhaps not, but at least on this occasion he DID.

Essentially a selfish gesture. The real purpose is to feed his own outrage and sense of moral superiority. Ostracism is not anywhere near the set of approaches that would help his son realize his mistakes. If anything it will just dig his indignation and sense of enmity to mainstream society even deeper.

That's just about the kind of spin I'd expect from YOU. Another way of looking at it is that a selfish gesture would've been to clam up and say nothing, but perhaps, for himself, for the rest of his family, for a greater good, he chose to speak out.

Really, is this the best you can come up with?

MEANWHILE:

Johnny Cash's family tells white supremacists to get Johnny's name out of their mouth
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/20...great-grandsons-of-Stonewall-Jackson-weigh-in
Great-great grandsons of Stonewall Jackson weigh in
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/20...ar-old-British-STAR-TREK-actor-David-Frankham
A powerful Facebook reply to Trump from 91 year old British STAR TREK actor David Frankham

Neo-Nazi website Daily Stormer surfaces on Russian and Chinese domains—but it doesn't go well
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat...erfect_rebuke_to_trump_s_charlottesville.html
The Viral Vice Documentary Was the Perfect Rebuke to Trump’s Charlottesville Remarks
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/08/17/scenes_from_uva_s_wednesday_night_vigil.html
Scenes from UVA’s Wednesday night vigil. US military service chiefs condemn racism, extremism

 

[TexanStar]

As more information and footage comes out, honestly, I'm more upset with Far left activists than I am with the KKK.

I don't feel threatened by the white nationalist movement. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be challenged, but I don't have any real fear of loss of my rights to them.

But the left went out there to strip them of their civil liberties and deny them their right to free speech. An attack on one persons civil rights is an attack on all of our civil rights. Making exceptions where you say that free speech should be denied to someone because of their message is the road to hell.

You yourself were in here yelling "Fuck free speech" yesterday.

This is threatening to me because the left does have the power to curtail civil rights. We witnessed it on Saturday when they denied the alt right their opportunity to speak, and further got away with that by being embraced by the media and establishment politicians on both sides of the aisle for what amounts to disgraceful behavior.

I happen to like the bill of rights. I think as far as our structure of government goes, they're as close as we have to sacred text. And the left is shitting all over it right now.

I'm going to come out on record as saying that I blame the alt left more for Saturday's violence than I do the alt right (and that's even with the knowledge that crazy alt right guy ran people over). And not only that, but of the two groups, the alt left is the only one that is a real tangible threat to my way of life right now.

 

[b.c.]

You yourself were in here yelling "Fuck free speech" yesterday.

Show me where I said that.

I'm going to come out on record as saying that I blame the alt left more for Saturday's violence than I do the alt right (and that's even with the knowledge that crazy alt right guy ran people over). And not only that, but of the two groups, the alt left is the only one that is a real tangible threat to my way of life right now.

So in other words, only the white nationalists, neo-nazis, klansmen, separatists, and supremacists had the right to free speech, including making racist remarks, and intimidating Jewish patrons in a local synagogue. The counter protestors didn't have the right to express themselves, and the physical conflicts that resulted were primarily the fault of this so-called "alt-left." Got it.

Thanks for exercising your free speech and making your position clear.

 

[TexanStar]

Show me where I said that.



So in other words, only the white nationalists, neo-nazis, klansmen, separatists, and supremacists had the right to free speech, including making racist remarks, and intimidating Jewish patrons in a local synagogue. The counter protestors didn't have the right to express themselves, and the physical conflicts that resulted were primarily the fault of this so-called "alt-left." Got it.

Thanks for exercising your free speech and making your position clear.

There were left-aligned groups that pulled permits to speak on Saturday and were out there peacefully demonstrating.

Those people aren't antifa / alt-left / etc

Or are you wanting to paint with a broad brush and put all of the people who were out there representing the left into the same bucket. Like Antifa and the church groups that were out there are one and the same to you?

 

[b.c.]

There were left-aligned groups that pulled permits to speak on Saturday and were out there peacefully demonstrating.

Those people aren't antifa / alt-left / etc

Or are you wanting to paint with a broad brush and put all of the people who were out there representing the left into the same bucket. Like Antifa and the church groups that were out there are one and the same to you?

Right. You "don't feel threatened by the white nationalist movement" their ideology's acceptance, defended and entrenched in national and in foreign policy making, and you "don't have any real fear of loss of [YOUR] rights to them."

Got it.

Btw, I'm still waiting for you to show me where I wrote, "Fuck free speech." Put up or stfu.

 

[TexanStar]

Right. You "don't feel threatened by the white nationalist movement"

No. I don't run into white supremacists day to day outside of kids in multiplayer PC games.

their ideology's acceptance

I do not fear that there is a risk of this currently. It's a fringe movement and will remain there for the forseeable future. I think that could change in time, depending especially on the reactions they provoke from people, but at this point in time no, I do not consider it an ideology that threatens mass acceptance.

their ideology's acceptance

defended and entrenched in national and in foreign policy making[/QUOTE]

Oh, Trump's embrace of xenophobia in foreign policy is disastrous. I voted against him in 2016 and will do so again in 2020. Just hoping we put a good candidate forward. I like Cory Booker but he's said so far that he won't run.

and you "don't have any real fear of loss of [YOUR] rights to them."

Mine or anyone's. Nothing above and beyond the background level of criminality that goes on nationally, anyways.

Are you legitimately afraid of some kind of Nazi takeover of the USA right now? You know from my PMs that I certainly see severe problems with systemic racism and oppression against black people right now, but I'm talking white nationalism. Are you really afraid THAT is going to be a thing?

 

[b.c.]

Are you really afraid THAT is going to be a thing?

GOING to be a thing??

 

[malakos]

You yourself were in here yelling "Fuck free speech" yesterday.

Wasn't that actually sargon20 who said that?

 

[TexanStar]

GOING to be a thing??

*glances outside*

*sees not a single swastika in sight*

Yes. GOING to be a thing.

 

[TexanStar]

Wasn't that actually sargon20 who said that?

Entirely possible I got my wires crossed.

 

[malakos]

GOING to be a thing??

Do you live in the USA? Are you White? If the answer to the first question is yes and to the second question no, then at the very least we can say White Nationalism isn't in full swing.

 

[TexanStar]

Do you live in the USA? Are you White? If the answer to the first question is yes and to the second question no, then at the very least we can say White Nationalism isn't in full swing.

lol

 

[b.c.]

*glances outside*

*sees not a single swastika in sight*

Yes. GOING to be a thing.

Look, bud. Don't be fkn ridiculous. Anyone paying attention doesn't need to see a swastika outside their window to realize elements of that kind of ideology at work as we SPEAK. Hell, Trump ran and was elected by such sentiment.

Perhaps you haven't been keeping up with current events, but Trump, Bannon, and Co. have been busy: trying to obtain voter registration information from every state, purging voter rolls, quietly rounding up and deporting immigrants, some of whom have long been productive members of our society... just today he made some asshole bigoted anti-Muslim reference to dipping bullets in pig's blood - oh wait, because I'm black you thought this was only about me? a black thing??

They're also trying to collect internet addresses of people who visited certain sites they deem anti Trump, and trying to ostracize and punish cities that they've deemed "sanctuary cities" ...

NOT to mention his recent demonizing of transgender people in the military and attacks on affirmative action in our nation's colleges and universities.

Meanwhile people like David Duke and Richard Spencer are celebrating, high-fiving, and slapping each other on the the back in victory at Trump's words that only served to legitimize their litany of hate and give them further encouragement as a movement recognized and affirmed from the Oval Office, and they're planning even MORE...

Yet you're here writing some fkn nonsense like "sees not a single swastika in sight."

Maybe you're not looking CLOSELY enough. But then I guess YOU'D nothing to worry about.

 

[b.c.]

lol

Btw, congratulations. Your new best bud is the one who speaks of racial purity, white pride, cognitive differences in races, defends the alt-right, and casually explains to us how they only want "non-europeans" GONE. I'm sure your ancestors would be proud.

Entirely possible I got my wires crossed.

undoubtedly.

 

[TexanStar]

Btw, congratulations. Your new best bud is the one who speaks of racial purity, white pride, cognitive differences in races, defends the alt-right, and casually explains to us how they only want "non-europeans" GONE. I'm sure your ancestors would be proud.

I'm not allowed to like dry humor now?

 

[Jjz1109]

Wasn't that actually sargon20 who said that?

Yes it was.