The question of if being gay is a choice
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Rugbypup
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Lex
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- Lex,
I want to note that I am in agreement with what you and DC DEEP have said. Orientation is an unalterable characteristic that we are born with. Over time and with societal interaction, people either realize their orientation or they don't. Once they realize it, they either choose to live openly or they live closetly, or they repress it totally. Those are the only choices involved.
I was born gay. I did not realize I was gay, however, until I was mature enough to understand that I was actually attracted to men and confident enough to face it in the face of a mostly unaccepting society. This happened well into my 30s and after I was married with children.
This is where I want to give you something to consider:
1. The "lifestyle" argument is an outgrowth of the choice argument and is a code-word for homophobia. When people say lifestyle, they are assigning to you several stereotypical behaviors and actions that you may or may not partake in. These behaviors "mark" you as obviously gay in their eyes and thus make you different. Please remember that they manner in which you live you life and the orientation you have do not have a causal relationship. It's like saying I have to like rap music because I am black. It's nonsense.
There is no such thing as a gay lifestyle. I take care of my kids, work, give to charity, drink beer, flirt with men, love football and other sports, live with my significant other, etc. Nothing out of the norm about that.
2. Not acting on the impulses of your orientation makes one no less gay than the person who acts upon it. Like you said--it is where you head is, not where you cock is.
I was born gay. I did not realize I was gay, however, until I was mature enough to understand that I was actually attracted to men and confident enough to face it in the face of a mostly unaccepting society. This happened well into my 30s and after I was married with children.
This is where I want to give you something to consider:
1. The "lifestyle" argument is an outgrowth of the choice argument and is a code-word for homophobia. When people say lifestyle, they are assigning to you several stereotypical behaviors and actions that you may or may not partake in. These behaviors "mark" you as obviously gay in their eyes and thus make you different. Please remember that they manner in which you live you life and the orientation you have do not have a causal relationship. It's like saying I have to like rap music because I am black. It's nonsense.
There is no such thing as a gay lifestyle. I take care of my kids, work, give to charity, drink beer, flirt with men, love football and other sports, live with my significant other, etc. Nothing out of the norm about that.
2. Not acting on the impulses of your orientation makes one no less gay than the person who acts upon it. Like you said--it is where you head is, not where you cock is.
what about guys who are straight for the first part of their life and later discover their homosexuality?? were they born gay??
Rugbypup
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me and my gay friends use the term 'gay lifestyle all the time'. i have some friends who are like you, kids, work, etc... and i know some people who literally spend all their time just tryin to get dick, that's what we mean when we say lifestyle. someone who's always in the club, always tryin to get some play. i don't understand the comment about lifestyle=code word for homophobia
Lex
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- Lex,
Substitute "pussy" for "dick" and you will see that many straight men (married and single) do the same. Thus, this "lifestyle" does not exist, or if it does, it is neither gay or straight, but just a partying lifestyle.
Anyjoe
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What inteligent man in his right mind would debate.....
I can choose this "road" which is rather smooth and free of social conflicts.
OR...
I can choose this "road" which is lifetimefull of conflicts, judgement and , and sneers from people you don't even know you and not a easy path at all???????
Which road would you "choose" if you could choose?
I can choose this "road" which is rather smooth and free of social conflicts.
OR...
I can choose this "road" which is lifetimefull of conflicts, judgement and , and sneers from people you don't even know you and not a easy path at all???????
Which road would you "choose" if you could choose?
The question should be: "is same-sex attraction a choice". Being "gay" usually implies rainbow flags, hanging out in bars and living in certain neighborhoods.
My attraction to men is not a choice. If I could, I would choose to be attracted to women and maybe get married and have children. But I am mostly attracted to men. So I date them, looking for mister right. However, I choose to live a pretty straight lifestyle. Not promiscuous, don't hang in gay bars, don't cruise public places, don't have any rainbow flags, don't live in gay neighborhoods, don't wear typically gay clothes, don't "party", etc etc. I'm not saying all gay people do those things, but that is the image presented to mainstream society and exactly the image that some men who are attracted to men want to avoid like the plague.
Some of those guys say, "I'm straight, but like dudes".
Masculine men attracted to men (no matter if they identify as gay, bi or straight) who do not live the "gay lifestyle" are invisible in our society.
My attraction to men is not a choice. If I could, I would choose to be attracted to women and maybe get married and have children. But I am mostly attracted to men. So I date them, looking for mister right. However, I choose to live a pretty straight lifestyle. Not promiscuous, don't hang in gay bars, don't cruise public places, don't have any rainbow flags, don't live in gay neighborhoods, don't wear typically gay clothes, don't "party", etc etc. I'm not saying all gay people do those things, but that is the image presented to mainstream society and exactly the image that some men who are attracted to men want to avoid like the plague.
Some of those guys say, "I'm straight, but like dudes".
Masculine men attracted to men (no matter if they identify as gay, bi or straight) who do not live the "gay lifestyle" are invisible in our society.
Principessa
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Yes, they were, they were just in denial or perhaps trying to please family and societal restrictions and ideals. What part of born gay do you not understand?
We get a badge, a membership number, a hat and cool card for our wallets.
It's actually one big secret club like the Masons, we just don't tell straight people about it.
Choose Gay, today!
10% off new membership up until the 1st of June 08[/quote]
Wait, when did they stop giving out those neat toaster ovens? :tongue:
Rugbypup
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Wait, when did they stop giving out those neat toaster ovens? :tongue:
We vary the promotion, plus the toasters where attracting too many poofs, lol.
i was going to ask the same question, but the last time i asked it in a college class, i was pretty much berated for doing so. it makes people upset when you ask about things that 'shouldn't matter.' I guess there's the attitude that if you ask such questions, that you're critical of the reason for being gay. i think you're just curious, as am i. personally, i think that if it's not a choice, then it means that a lot of people had experiences in which they were, as young people, violated to some degree. if that's the case, then it's understandable that people will take offense because this view would seem like it seeks to discredit the orientation or people with same-sex orientation who might have still-unresolved anger about the experience, repressed or with conscious memory of the event(s). In any case, it might sometimes be better for all not to ask 'why' and just to accept everyone for who they are. I am starting to feel this way. Not everything needs an answer. I've had revelations about past events that didn't open my eyes in a good way, but destroyed the beauty of the lie.
that's sort of a blanket statements. i have gay friends who didn't start developing homosexual feelings into their 20's, some their 30's. i think its insensitive to assume that everyone is BORN gay
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