The race card

[Popyuu]

I'll work backward, as this is the first post I'm seeing. This input will be negligible, as it is not direct to me.

Do you believe this to be the case? One assumes you exclude Liberals from the mix in this case, because these folk sure as heck do carry awful stereotypes in that sphere.

That said, they're derision worthy individuals according to many on the non-Left, myself included. Like Sharpton, they're fame whores looking out for their bottom line and to make bucks. These are not crusaders of whatever the hell they claim to be crusading for, and neither is Sharpton, in my estimation.

Even if that were the case (which i don't believe is). If not him then who? It's abundantly clear which way many americans and even people in general would go on the issue of the black community. So, if not him and those like him then who? Certainly, with out a doubt not you.

And yes, everyone carries some sort of stereotypical assumptions with them through life. How many put them into practice is a different story. Put it like this. Every last time someone goes after the Reverend Al Sharpton with whatever negative definition they can think up, i personally will always use that definition to see who else fits the description. And if the person going after Mr Sharpton does not include those people then it's logical to assume they aren't being genuine with what they are trying to say. Then i try to find the differences.

Bill Oreilly, Ann Culture (haha), Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck fit every last bit of those negative descriptions people toss at good old Al yet the people doing so blatantly ignore that fact. Why? Well....check the differences.

Edit: It appears i jumped the gun a little. I only believe that with certain individuals. Not all conservatives and no i don't excludes liberals. It does seem to be the case with a particular brand of person. Many that call this site home.

More on the topic though. Could you name instances where it wasn't "playing the race card"? If you can could you explain them?

 

[Eric_8]

Sooo. Just to keep the topic up to date.

I'll repost.

This question is to white males only. When is it "playing the race card" and when is it "bringing attention to racism/bigotry"? Whats the difference between the two? How can someone comment on race and NOT be accused of "playing the race card"?

Has it ever been the case? Meaning, has someone ever brought attention to a negative situation involving race and not been branded as a race baiter? In the last 20 or 30 years ago i mean. Gotta have a time frame right.

Long question short. Has there ever been a time where it was ok for someone of another race to bring attention to an issue they thought unfair?

I'll try to actually glean some insight, in an attempt to fathom the seemingly unfathomable.

I don't know when the race card became a term, so I'm going to assume it's the belief more than somebody actually saying, "hey, you're playing the race card, stop that!"

What spectrum are we talking about here? The United States in its entirety? If so, in order to properly answer your question, I would need to speak to every single person who has ever read, heard, seen (on TV), or witnessed an interracial crime...white on black in this case. Lemme tell ya, Doris Kearns Goodwin probably spent less time (and money) researching Teddy Roosevelt...and she got paid to do that!

My guess: you will always be able to find at least somebody who views even the most obvious race based crime as nothing more than a coincidence that the perp was white and victim black.

I would imagine I could find somebody who believes Martin Luther King was murdered because of the negative impact he had on the bus system in Montgomery. That he happened to be a leader of a movement for civil rights is probably mere coincidence...at least in their eyes.

I'd imagine I could find someone harboring similar beliefs for Emmett Till, as well as every other exceedingly obvious race based hate crime. To them, the folks (rightly) discussing racism were probably just looking for it where it didn't exist...or playing the race card.

In the scenario you pose, I would be beside myself with shock if I couldn't find somebody somewhere who thought mentioning race was easily explained away as playing the race card.

Final answer: It is always ok to bring attention to something one considers unfair. No one in the right mind would say otherwise. To attribute said unfairness to racism when there is little, if any, evidence, to support the belief. That's when folks get a bit testy, and when the legitimate discussions of race and racism start to lose some credibility. If you cry wolf when there's no wolf, eventually the folks are going to ignore you when you're being torn apart by a pack of em.

 

[Fuzzy_]

Charmed circle of entitlement? White establishment? Relinquish some control? Learn to act tolerant? Race riots? Racial oppression? Dude, you have a full agenda here.

Yes, Fuzzy has an agenda. :35:

Who is being hired? As you would imagine the most educated individuals, and they tend to be Asians (Chinese and Indian), and then Hispanics. These groups are coming to this country in droves, getting an education, and moving into corporate America.

So, Asians can come to the US and get a job. That's great. It's a shame that black Americans can't get those same jobs.

You clearly don't know what's going on. As Fuzzy stated, black people face social exclusion in America. This is why it's so difficult for progressive corporations to fill spots with black Americans. Despite this, only 1% of Google's tech staff is black.

You may be confusing immigrants with H1Bs.

So, pull your idealistic head out from wherever you have it, and YOU need to learn something.

Sorry, but the statistics, and reality, are on my side.

You are part of the problem by perpetuating your ignorant fodder, and passing it along to other naive souls who buy into it, and wind up bitching about a problem and never doing anything about it, as the world passes you by.

Here's a novel idea: before you claim that somebody is wring, try proving it. Before you devote an entire post to attacking somebody, try not making a fool of yourself in the process.

 

[Eric_8]

Even if that were the case (which i don't believe is).

Why do you choose to believe this? Do you believe I'm a liar when I say I view those people (swap Hannity for O'Reilly...Billy's an asshole, but I wouldn't bunch him in there) as bad influences? That other people do not view them in a similar manner?

As with my "playing the race card" answer I provided, I would imagine you can find more than a few non-Liberals who do not care for either Coulter, Hannity, Limbaugh, and their ilk.

Note: I'm not sure if it's troubling or flattering that you chose a post of mine for your signature. Flattering if you simply like looking at my genius (lols), troubling if you can't see a facetious post for what it is.

 

[Popyuu]

Final answer: It is always ok to bring attention to something one considers unfair. No one in the right mind would say otherwise. To attribute said unfairness to racism when there is little, if any, evidence, to support the belief. That's when folks get a bit testy, and when the legitimate discussions of race and racism start to lose some credibility. If you cry wolf when there's no wolf, eventually the folks are going to ignore you when you're being torn apart by a pack of em.

And once again you avoided the point of the thread. Has there ever been a time when someone wasn't "playing the race card". A time in the last 20 or 30 years where it was actual real life racism they were standing up against. And could you give examples?

Why do i ask? Why make this whole thread about it?

Well to see if it were possible. To see if white males that believing in the term "playing the race card" could even remember or even mention times when they considered a moment and evaluated that the person wasn't just "playing the race card". Why? Because if you've never seen a wolf, you have no idea what they look like. Hence if someone were being torn apart by them you wouldn't think or care to help.

 

[Eric_8]

And once again you avoided the point of the thread. Has there ever been a time when someone wasn't "playing the race card". A time in the last 20 or 30 years where it was actual real life racism they were standing up against. And could you give examples?

Why do i ask? Why make this whole thread about it?

Well to see if it were possible. To see if white males that believing in the term "playing the race card" could even remember or even mention times when they considered a moment and evaluated that the person wasn't just "playing the race card". Why? Because if you've never seen a wolf, you have no idea what they look like. Hence if someone were being torn apart by them you wouldn't think or care to help.

As my reply made abundantly clear: NO!

As I said, I'm 100% certain I could find people who believe every single instance of blacks mentioning race when discussing a white on black crime is an example of playing the race card. It could be a cut and dry case of racism, where discussing race is entirely acceptable (and not a case of playing the race card, in any rational thinker's mind), and yet SOME (hell, maybe 20 people in the country, perhaps less) would almost certainly still view it as playing the race card.

I don't know if I can state it more clearly. If you'd like a narrower focus, please provide some remotely defined parameters to your question.

 

[Eric_8]

Pops: Rodney King is a great example. Blacks being outraged at not only the videotaped beating, but also the acquittal, were NOT playing the race card. The black community in South Central acted in an abominable fashion following said acquittals, but their outrage was not an example of playing the race card.

To further my previous answer, however, I would bet every dollar down to my last that I could find at least one white person who thought it to be just another case of playing the race card.

 

[Popyuu]

Why do you choose to believe this? Do you believe I'm a liar when I say I view those people (swap Hannity for O'Reilly...Billy's an asshole, but I wouldn't bunch him in there) as bad influences? That other people do not view them in a similar manner?

As with my "playing the race card" answer I provided, I would imagine you can find more than a few non-Liberals who do not care for either Coulter, Hannity, Limbaugh, and their ilk.

Note: I'm not sure if it's troubling or flattering that you chose a post of mine for your signature. Flattering if you simply like looking at my genius (lols), troubling if you can't see a facetious post for what it is.

Liar? Well not exactly. Or at least not right now. I have seen you do some pretty snazzy moves in the past. And by snazzy i mean controlling the direct of a topic so much so that it goes where you want it to. All the while diverting it away from the meaningful subject matter. I've also seen you go after one poster vs another when they were being equally immature. Which wouldn't be so bad if you didn't switch around and act like some sort of mediator.

aka i believe you and others will..."flip sides" the second it seems in your best interest. So liar...not exactly.

As far as the post goes. No matter which way you want to take it. It's funny. Not funny ha ha either. More of a "why would he even say that".

 

[Popyuu]

Pops: Rodney King is a great example. Blacks being outraged at not only the videotaped beating, but also the acquittal, were NOT playing the race card. The black community in South Central acted in an abominable fashion following said acquittals, but their outrage was not an example of playing the race card.

To further my previous answer, however, I would bet every dollar down to my last that I could find at least one white person who thought it to be just another case of playing the race card.[/QUOTE]

Thats pretty much my point. I was trying to find out how many white males even understood the differences in one and the other. Specifically on this site.

 

[Eric_8]

Liar? Well not exactly. Or at least not right now. I have seen you do some pretty snazzy moves in the past. And by snazzy i mean controlling the direct of a topic so much so that it goes where you want it to. All the while diverting it away from the meaningful subject matter. I've also seen you go after one poster vs another when they were being equally immature. Which wouldn't be so bad if you didn't switch around and act like some sort of mediator.

aka i believe you and others will..."flip sides" the second it seems in your best interest. So liar...not exactly.

As far as the post goes. No matter which way you want to take it. It's funny. Not funny ha ha either. More of a "why would he even say that".

LOL, so not a liar as much as just a malleable sense of truth? Gotcha. You, like Storm, create a comparison. I provide my thoughts on the comparison. I then am derided, not for my thoughts, but for even discussing the comparison at all...what a world lol.

Refer to my response to NC when he asked the same question.

 

[Eric_8]

Is your point essentially that the human capacity for stupidity is limitless? If so, I'd agree and vigorously defend said viewpoint.

 

[Eric_8]

Another thought: why do you continue to ask me questions, ones that you presumably want an honest answer, when you admit you do not believe the sincerity of my answers?

 

[b.c.]

The shameful part is the supposition that we don't care about the problem of black on black crime. Just because we want the oppression by some members of the police force to stop we suddenly are blind to other issues?

That's because it'd never occur to them that the existence of black on black crime within our communities, and the added dangers that such crime poses to law abiding members of the community, only serves to heighten the outrage, anger, and frustration

ESPECIALLY when the VERY people whose job it is to "protect and serve", instead, become PARTICIPANTS in murder.

 

[Popyuu]

LOL, so not a liar as much as just a malleable sense of truth? Gotcha. You, like Storm, create a comparison. I provide my thoughts on the comparison. I then am derided, not for my thoughts, but for even discussing the comparison at all...what a world lol.

Refer to my response to NC when he asked the same question.

Nope, wrong again. I thought that way before you commented in this thread. And thats based off of topics not even having to do with race. I forget the topic. Keep in mind. I'm not the judgmental type or at least not in the way you think. Hell you are a smart guy. It just seems you have a few more decisions to make on which way you want to go. Hey, you asked.

 

[Popyuu]

Another thought: why do you continue to ask me questions, ones that you presumably want an honest answer, when you admit you do not believe the sincerity of my answers?

Because the question wasn't only meant for you. Your opinions, whether i believe them or not do help. And not only me, if someone else were to read these threads then they could come to their own conclusions. Like i said, i don't not believe you. In fact i'll believe you until you give me reason not to.

 

[NC_BBC]

SO, you're actually under the impression that all the majority of interracial crimes...are commit by black people? I mean...it's not like there's a chance that the vast majority of race based hate crimes against African Americans could be covered up....right? WE should trust that the data from the 90's shows ALL interracial crimes. Let's look at a few facts shall we...the vast majority of the racial injustices that have happened as of late, have only come to light because of bystanders and camera phones. Does anyone disagree? The Trayvon Martin case was an egregious mishandling of justice. Despite the obvious facts in the case, there was no video or eye witness for the crime committed, so Zimmerman walked. The media and police department in Ferguson have TRIED to hide the Mike Brown situation from the light. There are no news updates on the PEACEFUL protests and marches going on in Ferguson. No, they want to TELL you (not show you) the "riots" and "looting" going on. What you haven't seen is police shooting tear gas and rubber bullets into peacefully assembled crowds, and people standing in their own yards.

You're under the distinct impression that all racial injustice is properly documented and presented to the public in a timely manner. Sorry my friend, that is not at all the case. One case and point:

Police dash cam video exonerates New Jersey man, leads to indictment of cops  - NY Daily News

Watch that and tell me again how you think things are properly documented here in America...

 

[Eric_8]

SO, you're actually under the impression that all the majority of interracial crimes...are commit by black people? I mean...it's not like there's a chance that the vast majority of race based hate crimes against African Americans could be covered up....right? WE should trust that the data from the 90's shows ALL interracial crimes. Let's look at a few facts shall we...the vast majority of the racial injustices that have happened as of late, have only come to light because of bystanders and camera phones. Does anyone disagree? The Trayvon Martin case was an egregious mishandling of justice. Despite the obvious facts in the case, there was no video or eye witness for the crime committed, so Zimmerman walked. The media and police department in Ferguson have TRIED to hide the Mike Brown situation from the light. There are no news updates on the PEACEFUL protests and marches going on in Ferguson. No, they want to TELL you (not show you) the "riots" and "looting" going on. What you haven't seen is police shooting tear gas and rubber bullets into peacefully assembled crowds, and people standing in their own yards.

You're under the distinct impression that all racial injustice is properly documented and presented to the public in a timely manner. Sorry my friend, that is not at all the case. One case and point:

Police dash cam video exonerates New Jersey man, leads to indictment of cops* - NY Daily News

Watch that and tell me again how you think things are properly documented here in America...

So, we shouldn't trust THOSE interracial crime stats, but we should trust those committed by whites? Heck, what if those numbers are inaccurate? What if they're *gasp* artificially inflated to make whites look as bad as possible?

If you're going to question the veracity of one set of numbers, surely you must harbor similar doubt for the others.

 

[NC_BBC]

So, we shouldn't trust THOSE interracial crime stats, but we should trust those committed by whites? Heck, what if those numbers are inaccurate? What if they're *gasp* artificially inflated to make whites look as bad as possible?

If you're going to question the veracity of one set of numbers, surely you must harbor similar doubt for the others.

When you post some videos like the one I did, or post some links to cases where a white person has been framed, or falsely accused of a crime then beat to a pulp over those false accusations...we can talk...

 

[TDSmoove]

So, we shouldn't trust THOSE interracial crime stats, but we should trust those committed by whites? Heck, what if those numbers are inaccurate? What if they're *gasp* artificially inflated to make whites look as bad as possible?

If you're going to question the veracity of one set of numbers, surely you must harbor similar doubt for the others.

Simply put.. Yes. Look at the data from the resent VA Hospital scandal where the books were cooked. Look at the military rape investigations that were held earlier this year.. where the books were cooked. In both cases those that were in power cooked the books to show themselves in a better light than what was actually happening in their perspective organizations. This does not say that there isn't any Black on Black crime, there is. This is to say that just as in the rape cases, just as in Travon Martin, and just as in countless other cases no one has heard of, the facts and not taken seriously and many cases go undocumented. Do not focus on how many aren't reported, just understand that those with the power to cover it up, do.

So to be very clear... Blacks are the most likely to be arrested, charged, convicted, and most harshly sentenced than any other group for any identical crime. For example Blacks are less likely to do any type of drug but are more likely to not only go to jail for it but are sentenced a solid year longer than their white counterparts. When I'm being followed around Macy's and all eyes are on me, it's very easy for others to get away with shoplifting because security is so focused on what I'm doing that they're oblivious to what's going on in the next section. This is the reality. Maybe not for you, but it is for me and many others. Feel free to Google any of this as it's readily available.

Also for more interesting reading... When The Media Treats White Suspects And Killers Better Than Black Victims
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/14/ryan-reilly-ferguson-arrest_n_5678528.html

 

[Eric_8]

Simply put..Do not focus on how many aren't reported, just understand that those with the power to cover it up, do.

Not my contention. Never was. My contention was you cannot say "these numbers are probably wrong" with no proof (because racism is an explanation that wouldn't do in middle school mock trial), while simultaneously "cannot possibly be wrong" with similarly no proof (again, because racism doesn't work).

NC COULD BE RIGHT. Similarly, I could also be right. Without anything resembling credible proof, we can both also be wrong.