The Real Health Care Issues

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Countryguy63, Mar 24, 2010.

  1. Countryguy63

    Verified Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    14,488
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,448
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    near Monterey, Calif.
    Verified:
    Photo
    Far fetched, but worth a shot...:rolleyes:

    Can anyone tell me what the issues are that are of the most concern with Obama's new health plan?

    What is good/bad about it?


    I understand it's going to happen, but what I'm not looking for is "It sucks because I don't like Obama/Dems" or the opposite "It's great because I love Obama/Dems".
     
  2. callmedafonz

    callmedafonz New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2010
    Messages:
    54
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    NYC
    Now I personally feel one of the major reason's businesses are being told they must buy a certain level of health care for all employees is because it will help level out the playing field for the unions. I don't have a problem with unions, but 99% of them have out served their purpose. Now that universal health care is in place for all American's, all states have prevailing wages for state funded work and with OSHA to provide job safety, what good do the unions serve anymore besides robbing the pockets of hard working Americans?

    As a small business owner, I am being told I will have to buy insurance for all my employees. I have no choice here, and I don't know how much or what coverage I will have to provide. Living in NJ where all insurance premiums are high (health, auto, home, etc), the demand for health insurance will increase, where the supply (actual companies that provide it) will stay the same. I will be at the mercy of the insurance companies. Providing insurance will not be a problem, all I will be doing is transferring my additional cost to my clients (passing the buck). In theory this should make it a level playing field for all companies, but that isn't always the case.

    It is rather strange that a federal mandate is making everyone buy health insurance, but we can only buy it on a state level?!?!? I think if we open up the ability for people to buy insurance from any state, it would increase competition and lower the prices IMHO.
     
  3. cdunstan1

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2009
    Messages:
    2,106
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,472
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Brooklyn
    Dang, I guess I can’t say it’s bad because it’s a socialist-fascist-communist takeover of health care or a total seizure of Medicare by the government. :grumpy: Oh well, I’ll put on my “coffee party” hat and be civil. :smile:

    Good:

    1 - America is finally joining the 20th century and recognizing that everyone has a right to affordable health insurance and the responsibility to purchase it. I know it’s the 21st century; we still have a way to go. Call me when I don’t have to travel cross country to get married.

    2- All the hysteria of this year-long battle will probably cost some lifers their house/senate seats. Who wants to bet we see an extension of unemployment insurance this November.

    Bad (so many, let’s try the top 5):

    1 - No cost containment.

    2 – Hardly anybody who needs help gets it till 2014.

    3 – HCR (as passed) is a total cave-in to pharma/insurance. Even more so than Medicare Part D.

    4 – (Taking off my “coffee party” hat for a minute) There are Americans twitty enough to protest that they have a right to be uninsured (until they get sick and go for free care in the E/R).

    5- The penalty for skipping insurance is meaningless.

    6- The lifers being thrown out of congress are being replaced by younger lifers who are more extreme on the right/left and just as eager to suck off the public teat until they die. And since we pay for their health care they live a long time.

    I guess that's 6. Even tho I think it's a real stinky bill #1 of the "good" list makes it worthwhile. At least I don't need to feel shame anymore when I go to Europe.
     
  4. Countryguy63

    Verified Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    14,488
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,448
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    near Monterey, Calif.
    Verified:
    Photo
    So far, it's not sounding better than it is bad :confused:
     
  5. justasimpleguy

    justasimpleguy Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2009
    Messages:
    425
    Albums:
    4
    Likes Received:
    131
    Gender:
    Male
    It's going to be a one hot mess. I still dream of single payer. If only we lived in a civilized country where the citizens had more "rights" than "freedoms."
     
  6. Industrialsize

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2006
    Messages:
    24,333
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    2,192
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    United States
    What happens immediately:
    IF YOU ARE A SMALL BUSINESSES OWNER:
    SMALL BUSINESS TAX CREDITS—Offers tax credits to small businesses to make employee coverage more affordable. Tax credits of up to 35 percent of premiums will be immediately available. Effective beginning for calendar year 2010. (Beginning in 2014, small business tax credits will cover 50 percent of premiums.)
    IF YOU ARE A SENIOR:
    BEGINS TO CLOSE THE MEDICARE PART D DONUT HOLE—Provides a $250 rebate to Medicare beneficiaries who hit the donut hole in 2010. Effective for calendar year 2010. (Beginning in 2011, institutes a 50% discount on brand-name drugs in the donut hole; also completely closes the donut hole by 2020.)
    FREE PREVENTIVE CARE UNDER MEDICARE—Eliminates co-payments for preventive services and exempts preventive services from deductibles under the Medicare program. Effective beginning January 1, 2011.
    HELP FOR EARLY RETIREES—Creates a temporary re-insurance program (until the Exchanges are available) to help offset the costs of expensive health claims for employers that provide health benefits for retirees age 55-64. Effective 90 days after enactment.
    IF YOU HAVE PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE:
    NO DISCRIMINATION AGAINST CHILDREN WITH PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS—Prohibits health plans from denying coverage to children with pre-existing conditions. Effective 6 months after enactment. (Beginning in 2014, this prohibition would apply to adults as well.)
    NO RESCISSIONS—Bans health plans from dropping people from coverage when they get sick. Effective 6 months after enactment.
    NO LIFETIME LIMITS ON COVERAGE—Prohibits health plans from placing lifetime caps on coverage. Effective 6 months after enactment.
    NO RESTRICTIVE ANNUAL LIMITS ON COVERAGE—Tightly restricts new plans’ use of annual limits to ensure access to needed care. These tight restrictions will be defined by HHS. Effective 6 months after enactment. (Beginning in 2014, the use of any annual limits would be prohibited for all plans.)
    FREE PREVENTIVE CARE UNDER NEW PLANS—Requires new private plans to cover preventive services with no co-payments and with preventive services being exempt from deductibles. Effective 6 months after enactment.
    NEW, INDEPENDENT APPEALS PROCESS FOR NEW PLANS—Ensures consumers in new plans have access to an effective internal and external appeals process to appeal decisions. Effective 6 months after enactment.
    MORE FOR YOUR PREMIUM DOLLAR—Requires plans to put more of your premiums into your care, and less into profits, CEO pay, etc. This medical loss ratio requires plans in the individual and small group market to spend 80 percent of premiums on medical services, and plans in the large group market to spend 85 percent. Insurers that don’t meet these thresholds must provide rebates to policyholders. Effective on January 1, 2011.
    NO DISCRIMINATION BASED ON SALARY—Prohibits new group health plans from establishing any eligibility rules for health care coverage that have the effect of discriminating in favor of higher wage employees. Effective 6 months after enactment.
    IF YOU DON’T HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE:
    IMMEDIATE HELP FOR THE UNINSURED WITH PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS (INTERIM HIGH-RISK POOL)—Provides immediate access to insurance for Americans who are uninsured because of a pre-existing condition - through a temporary high-risk pool – until the Exchanges up and running in 2014. Effective 90 days after enactment. (Beginning in 2014, health plans are banned from discriminating against all people with pre-existing conditions, so high-risk pools would phase out).
    EXTENDING COVERAGE FOR YOUNG PEOPLE UP TO 26TH BIRTHDAY THROUGH PARENTS’ INSURANCE – Requires health plans to allow young people up to their 26th birthday to remain on their parents’ insurance policy, at the parents’ choice. Effective 6 months after enactment.
    GENERAL REFORMS:
    COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTERS—Increases funding for Community Health Centers to allow for nearly doubling the number of patients served over the next 5 years. Effective beginning in fiscal year 2010.
    MORE PRIMARY CARE DOCTORS—Provides new investment in training programs to increase the number of primary care doctors, nurses, and public health professionals. Effective beginning in fiscal year 2010.
    HEALTH INSURANCE CONSUMER ASSISTANCE—Provides aid to states to establish offices of health insurance consumer assistance to help consumers file complaints and appeals. Effective beginning in FY 2010.
    A NEW, VOLUNTARY, PUBLIC LONG-TERM CARE INSURANCE PROGRAM—Creates a long-term care insurance program to be financed by voluntary payroll deductions to provide benefits to adults who become functionally disabled. Effective on January 1, 2011.
     
  7. Countryguy63

    Verified Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    14,488
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,448
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    near Monterey, Calif.
    Verified:
    Photo

    So, no negatives in your opinion?
     
  8. hud01

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    5,262
    Likes Received:
    23
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    new york city
    If there are more people getting insurance the price will go down, not up. This is basic, it isn't supply and demand this is spreading the liability over a broader population.

    This is why you need to read and understand the bill.

    IF YOU ARE A SMALL BUSINESSES OWNER:
    SMALL BUSINESS TAX CREDITS—Offers tax credits to small businesses to make employee coverage more affordable. Tax credits of up to 35 percent of premiums will be immediately available. Effective beginning for calendar year 2010. (Beginning in 2014, small business tax credits will cover 50 percent of premiums.)


     
    #8 hud01, Mar 24, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2010
  9. Industrialsize

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2006
    Messages:
    24,333
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    2,192
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    United States
    Yes, I would prefer "Single Payer" and do away with the Insurance companies altogether. My health should NOT be a commodity on which a business makes a profit. This Bill nudges the country in that direction.
     
  10. cdunstan1

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2009
    Messages:
    2,106
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,472
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Brooklyn
    You know, Obama said "Good is not the opposite of perfect." While I think it was a stretch to call the house bill good, at least it had a public option (which I consider cost control). The price of getting 60 senate pinheads was what made it really stinky.
     
  11. callmedafonz

    callmedafonz New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2010
    Messages:
    54
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    NYC
    if there are only 3 stores selling the XBOX360, and 50 people want them, why should they drop the price? I mean they stand a 33% chance of selling one if they are all the same price. There is no incentive for prices to come down. How if there are 50 stores looking to sell the same product to the same pool of people, they will need to compete with better prices to sell that product, as they have only a 2% chance of selling a product. I personally feel that competition will also lower the cost.

    Now this 35% credit, i think it is capped off at around $2000, that would only cover about 45 days on the healthcare policy i offer to my employees(family plan). Forget about the fact there is a limit on how much tax credit i can get, where will that money come from? HIGHER TAXES on my business, and on me personally. Whats going to happen is that I am going to be taxed an additional $8000 for each employee(example), but be given $2000 back as if a favor is being done.

    Ill give you what will happen in the real world. i get slow and cant offer all my workers a 40 hour week, so i cut back the hours to 32-35...but once again it is slow. so what should i do? i start to fire people so i can save 1000-2000 a month for each employee i have get rid of. tell me how a higher tax helps me and my workers?
     
  12. tripod

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2006
    Messages:
    5,250
    Albums:
    3
    Likes Received:
    465
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Statesville N.C.
    The only thing that could ever lower insurance prices was the Public Option. Conservatives like you are the reason that we don't have it.

    The nature of Capitalism is eventually creating monopolies. That is precisely what we have under your fucking retarded FOR PROFIT health care system that you are willing to shoot people in the head to defend.

    Stick your teabag up your butthole, we don't get any fucking competition because of you and your cronies.
     
  13. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Messages:
    10,516
    Likes Received:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Boston, MA / New York, NY
    Why have only 3 stores selling a system at $750 a pop, when you can get 50 of them selling it at $250 instead? The companies involved make more money in the long run, because all 50 of these companies will then sell additional games and accessories to go with it. Customers will then show their purchases to their friends, who will then turn around and eventually buy one themselves. That's simple supply & demand.

    BTW, most game companies sell their hardware at a loss to begin with.
     
  14. callmedafonz

    callmedafonz New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2010
    Messages:
    54
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    NYC
    i do not see anything in your post that has any intellectual merit. so the public option is the "ONLY" way to lower health care insurance costs? if we open up health care to be purchased across state lines that will lower costs, it would add ZERO additional taxes and i personally feel in a lot of areas it will drive down the prices on premiums.

    you keep saying there is no competition in the insurance field, but "my cronies" are the ones who want to provide the ability to purchace health care across state lines which would INCREASE competition.

    now do i feel the public option has no merrit? no, i think it does have merrit, but it does need to be tweeked. If we add a public option, I feel EVERY SINGLE GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE should have to be on that plan (including the president, every senator and congressman, all cops and fireman, all teachers and so on). If this plan is good enough for the people of this country, it should be good enough for the president who signs it into law, correct?
     
  15. tripod

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2006
    Messages:
    5,250
    Albums:
    3
    Likes Received:
    465
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Statesville N.C.
    A total waste of time brainiac, keep regurgitating Republican talking points.

    Just because you feel it might lower prices in "a lot of areas", doesn't mean that it will.

    The buying of insurance across state lines is the only idea that the Republicans have that doesn't sound automatically retarded and harmful.

    But, aren't you a states rights kind of patriot? You want to take away the state by state control of insurance commerce and let the Federal government handle it all? It is a clusterfuck of the highest proportions. Have you even thought about the confusion that this would create? It's taking all of the red tape that we have now and increasing it almost 100%.

    It's simply just not a serious proposal and it is rather weak and sad that this is all that you conservatives can come up with.
     
  16. midlifebear

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    5,908
    Likes Received:
    11
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nevada, Buenos Aires, and Barçelona
    I agree. I can buy auto insurance from just about any of the 50 States, why not health insurance? That's something that will eventually have to ironed out. :confused:

    But because I own several small businesses, according to my CPA I'll get to able to apply for almost 35% in tax credits that will go towards my employee's insurance premiums in 2010. :smile:
     
    #16 midlifebear, Mar 25, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2010
  17. callmedafonz

    callmedafonz New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2010
    Messages:
    54
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    NYC
    No "patriot" here, just an american. I wouldn't mind if the federal govt has to set some regulations in place to keep insurance companies in place, tell them they need to adhere to certain requirements, but I do have a problem when they tell a business how much they can charge for a service or how much they pay someone.

    Regulating the insurance companies would not be a bad thing if you ask me, but it does seem that the democrats are against it. Do you remember several years ago when Bush tried to regulate the lending companies, but people like then Senator Barak Obama voted against it? Well, we all saw what happened there.....
     
  18. callmedafonz

    callmedafonz New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2010
    Messages:
    54
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    NYC
    ok, 35% sounds like a lot, but there is a cap on how much you can claim tho. If you have to pay $10,000 for health coverage on a family, you can get up to a 35% credit, but it's maxed out at $2000 you would only get a 20% credit. Not the same number. I can tell you that you will get a 75% tax credit, but only up to $2000....the percentage number mean nothing. There is a lot to still come out that needs to be cleared up.

    Like I said before, if we are going to nationalize health care, I feel that all our elected officials should be on the same health care plan
     
  19. Countryguy63

    Verified Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    14,488
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,448
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    near Monterey, Calif.
    Verified:
    Photo
    Tripod, cut the personal attacks please.

    This is not a conservative or liberal issue. It's now one that affects everyone, and I'm not one that trusts what the government (either side) is saying

    My intent was to try and understand this from a "regular persons" pov.

    Thank you to all who have contributed useful information.
     
  20. midlifebear

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    5,908
    Likes Received:
    11
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nevada, Buenos Aires, and Barçelona
    dear fonz: No doubt tons of crap will need to be "fixed." And I'm with you, put Congress on the same medical health care leash. But at least now there is a "start." I wasn't hoping for the type of system I'm fortunate enough to enjoy as an expat in Spain, but I am glad that at least something was passed that will no doubt take a long time to fix so that it might become equitable.

    And like you, I think insurance regulation would be a good step in the right direction.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted