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The Religous Right
- Thread starter madame_zora
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WTF?
You don't like me separtaing Christianity from right-wingers, do you? It's convenient to have a movement behind you for battle, isn't it? You know good and well that you can't have it both ways. You are the perfect example of what I'm talking about. You don't really believe in the things they proclaim, but you defend them anyway- let's just say I call 'em like I see 'em,
Originally posted by DoubleMeatWhopper@Jul 14 2005, 11:11 AM
What's the Pope's next target ... Bewitched? We all know what a menace that Endora can be!
[post=329130]Quoted post[/post]
Are you kidding? Her makeup was totally offensive!
In these times, people will cling so hard to an ideology because, whatever walk of life they come from, they need something to believe in and something to which they can anchor themselves. For some, it's worldly possession; for others, it's faith.
Nowadays, I can't help but respect people who have a good and thoughtful sense of religious faith. Believe me, there are way more people out there who are using God's name and word for division instead of unity. And I think it takes a lot more guts nowadays to be a Christian, much less practice like one, because your very first job of ministry is to show that you can be a compassionate person and that you do good things with God's word.
There's such an in-out, saved-damned, us-them mentality about faith nowadays that it drives people away, scares them needlessly, and further fuels division. And I think that fear, that reaction saturates a lot of modern life, even a crazy li'l Internet forum like this one.
Members like Monty and Steve have acknowledged that it's tough to have faith or to be Republican and to talk through these differences for fear of retribution. This retribution, of course, come from people who in one way or another might have felt shunned from these groups, beliefs, ideologies, etc.
I jokingly say that I'm going to be the bus driver of damned souls to Hell. The express route, mind you.
I'm learning that the past few years have made me politically and religiously extrasensitive because there are way too many assholes out there who are making politics and religion look something terrible. Sometimes I can't help but "knee-jerk" or wince at stuff Republicans do or say, and sometimes I have to tell myself to just listen to what's being said and to try to make sense of it. And really, the people that I should listen to are the people who are willing to share their experiences and stories with me.
I bet Monty and Steve and some of the other religious folks have a good bit of enlightening for me, way better than I'd get reading some verses from the Old Testament. And, if anything, I should respect their right to believe what they want. They aren't forcing me to change my mind. I can and will choose, however, to let them open it if they wish.
Nowadays, I can't help but respect people who have a good and thoughtful sense of religious faith. Believe me, there are way more people out there who are using God's name and word for division instead of unity. And I think it takes a lot more guts nowadays to be a Christian, much less practice like one, because your very first job of ministry is to show that you can be a compassionate person and that you do good things with God's word.
There's such an in-out, saved-damned, us-them mentality about faith nowadays that it drives people away, scares them needlessly, and further fuels division. And I think that fear, that reaction saturates a lot of modern life, even a crazy li'l Internet forum like this one.
Members like Monty and Steve have acknowledged that it's tough to have faith or to be Republican and to talk through these differences for fear of retribution. This retribution, of course, come from people who in one way or another might have felt shunned from these groups, beliefs, ideologies, etc.
I jokingly say that I'm going to be the bus driver of damned souls to Hell. The express route, mind you.
I'm learning that the past few years have made me politically and religiously extrasensitive because there are way too many assholes out there who are making politics and religion look something terrible. Sometimes I can't help but "knee-jerk" or wince at stuff Republicans do or say, and sometimes I have to tell myself to just listen to what's being said and to try to make sense of it. And really, the people that I should listen to are the people who are willing to share their experiences and stories with me.
I bet Monty and Steve and some of the other religious folks have a good bit of enlightening for me, way better than I'd get reading some verses from the Old Testament. And, if anything, I should respect their right to believe what they want. They aren't forcing me to change my mind. I can and will choose, however, to let them open it if they wish.
Lex
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- Lex,
Great points, Dee.
I was raised in the Baptist church , went regularyly until the age of 20 and left long before I came out. I have fellowshiped with my fellow Christians and really left as I got tired of the hypocritical things that I saw and heard. My pastor is awesome--he uses the word to unify, not divide. It's the people with whom I could not form a connection.
I know there are a lot of loving Christians, it remains frightening, however, that LOTS Of religious leaders use the words of these few megelmaniacal leaders as springboards for similar sermons than for examples of what NOT to become.
If other devout Christians won't stand up to the Falwell's of the world, who will? I mean who has better credibility to do that than those who share in the strenghts of thier beliefs if not the spirit?
I was raised in the Baptist church , went regularyly until the age of 20 and left long before I came out. I have fellowshiped with my fellow Christians and really left as I got tired of the hypocritical things that I saw and heard. My pastor is awesome--he uses the word to unify, not divide. It's the people with whom I could not form a connection.
I know there are a lot of loving Christians, it remains frightening, however, that LOTS Of religious leaders use the words of these few megelmaniacal leaders as springboards for similar sermons than for examples of what NOT to become.
If other devout Christians won't stand up to the Falwell's of the world, who will? I mean who has better credibility to do that than those who share in the strenghts of thier beliefs if not the spirit?
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It's people like Dee and Lex who I respect. They can say that they disagree, but do it in a mature way. It's not an attack. I will be the first to admit that I don't agree with everything that the far right stands for, but I agree with more conservative things than I do liberal ideology, be it politics OR religion.
As Lex's minister used the Word to unify, that is exactly what my pastor does, too. That is why my church is experiencing explosive growth. In the month of January, we took in over 100 new members. Over the past 10 years or so, the church has well over doubled in size. This is due to several things--because the church members are actively ministering to people who need it in the community and around the world--the walk the walk, not just talk about it; it is a friendly place; the pastor doesn't condemn anyone. The Bible is used to uplift people and used to unify people of different cultures, religions and races. The focus is on God--that's the main purpose of a church. Because people are being taught how to live as true Christians in today's world, they want to go out and share with others--and that's not usually by cramming Scripture passages down people's throats, it's usually by reaching out to others, doing kind acts for others. Look at what Jesus did--he healed people, comforted people, helped people. The times when he quoted Scripture was generally to the establishment, not to the public. People like the windbags on TV need to take some advice from Jesus and do it the Biblical way, because we can't go wrong by following some of the ways of Jesus. The meek and mild way gets a lot more done than the bold, brash, obnoxious way that they do it, because all that does is turn people away.
I know that not everyone is going to agree with me, but all I ask is that you don't attack everything in such a hate-spewing way. Have some respect for it. Some of the listmembers have demonstrated that it can be done.
As Lex's minister used the Word to unify, that is exactly what my pastor does, too. That is why my church is experiencing explosive growth. In the month of January, we took in over 100 new members. Over the past 10 years or so, the church has well over doubled in size. This is due to several things--because the church members are actively ministering to people who need it in the community and around the world--the walk the walk, not just talk about it; it is a friendly place; the pastor doesn't condemn anyone. The Bible is used to uplift people and used to unify people of different cultures, religions and races. The focus is on God--that's the main purpose of a church. Because people are being taught how to live as true Christians in today's world, they want to go out and share with others--and that's not usually by cramming Scripture passages down people's throats, it's usually by reaching out to others, doing kind acts for others. Look at what Jesus did--he healed people, comforted people, helped people. The times when he quoted Scripture was generally to the establishment, not to the public. People like the windbags on TV need to take some advice from Jesus and do it the Biblical way, because we can't go wrong by following some of the ways of Jesus. The meek and mild way gets a lot more done than the bold, brash, obnoxious way that they do it, because all that does is turn people away.
I know that not everyone is going to agree with me, but all I ask is that you don't attack everything in such a hate-spewing way. Have some respect for it. Some of the listmembers have demonstrated that it can be done.
Hi,
I have been a bit gun shy about expressing my views here because at times I feel as though as a Christian it might not be the best testimony to what I say I believe to even be here.Freddie, Steve319, Monty, Pecker,Lapdog, DMW and other men who profess faith have a legit reason to be here, As auxillary, I am holding on by the thinnest of margins.
I also was a bit more reluctant because of the intensity of reaction to the titles ,Christian, Evangelical, Fundamentalist, etc. I was raised in very conservative Christian family and subscribe to the Reformed theology. I look to the way Christ himself dealt with sin, he hated the sin but loved the sinner. His own disciples in many cases were outcast because of marginal behavior within society. ( Matthew) Sexuality is always something that has been a very sensitive issue.because it touches to the very core of one's person. I do not hate those that have a lifestyle that is different from my own . There are things that I have come to be exposed to in my 2.5 years here at LPSG (under one name or another) that have shifted and to some enlightened my views. THe jury is still out on that one. But I must say that through out the ages as we have all read and are now witnessing in this everyday battle with "religious terrorism " that the name of god has been touted under some of the most dubious of circumstances. WE see prejudice running rampant throughout the church universal and yet we still think God's work is being done. Christ himself gave a clue to how he felt about this in the famous story of the woman at the well. For all of the men who wanted to stone this woman of Samaria he had but few words. "HE that is without sin let him cast the first stone" By reaching her where she was he was able to bring real change in her life. She was not a bad woman . but one who had experienced more than one bad break in her life. Quite often on Sunday m many of my fellow Christians forget what it is all about . I can not speak for any of the Gentlemen that have been named , they will themselves have to answer for their views as will I. But I am working out my own salvation with fear and trembling as the bible states.
I want to end ths discourse with one last thought. During Slavery in the United States of America slaves were being fed with parts of the scripture that were considered not detrimental to continuiing the abomination that was new world slavery. Paul's letters admonishing "Servants to obey their masters " yet the slavery in the United States,Carribean , and South America was nothing like that of which he spoke. Yet, out of the bitter degradation that still has foot prints in this present century, came some of the most piercing of theology sprung from the hearts of those unlearned and oppressed people. The one that I think most truly talks about the double life was "I got Shoes" " I got shoes, you got shoes, all God's chilluns got shoes when I get to heaven gonna put on my shoes Im gonna walk all over God's heaven , heaven everybody talkin bout heaven aint goin there heaven, heaven I'm gonna walk all over God's heaven. " They saw the wrong and left if up to God to judge the wrong dooer. I just want to be ready myself.
Naughty K
I have been a bit gun shy about expressing my views here because at times I feel as though as a Christian it might not be the best testimony to what I say I believe to even be here.Freddie, Steve319, Monty, Pecker,Lapdog, DMW and other men who profess faith have a legit reason to be here, As auxillary, I am holding on by the thinnest of margins.
I also was a bit more reluctant because of the intensity of reaction to the titles ,Christian, Evangelical, Fundamentalist, etc. I was raised in very conservative Christian family and subscribe to the Reformed theology. I look to the way Christ himself dealt with sin, he hated the sin but loved the sinner. His own disciples in many cases were outcast because of marginal behavior within society. ( Matthew) Sexuality is always something that has been a very sensitive issue.because it touches to the very core of one's person. I do not hate those that have a lifestyle that is different from my own . There are things that I have come to be exposed to in my 2.5 years here at LPSG (under one name or another) that have shifted and to some enlightened my views. THe jury is still out on that one. But I must say that through out the ages as we have all read and are now witnessing in this everyday battle with "religious terrorism " that the name of god has been touted under some of the most dubious of circumstances. WE see prejudice running rampant throughout the church universal and yet we still think God's work is being done. Christ himself gave a clue to how he felt about this in the famous story of the woman at the well. For all of the men who wanted to stone this woman of Samaria he had but few words. "HE that is without sin let him cast the first stone" By reaching her where she was he was able to bring real change in her life. She was not a bad woman . but one who had experienced more than one bad break in her life. Quite often on Sunday m many of my fellow Christians forget what it is all about . I can not speak for any of the Gentlemen that have been named , they will themselves have to answer for their views as will I. But I am working out my own salvation with fear and trembling as the bible states.
I want to end ths discourse with one last thought. During Slavery in the United States of America slaves were being fed with parts of the scripture that were considered not detrimental to continuiing the abomination that was new world slavery. Paul's letters admonishing "Servants to obey their masters " yet the slavery in the United States,Carribean , and South America was nothing like that of which he spoke. Yet, out of the bitter degradation that still has foot prints in this present century, came some of the most piercing of theology sprung from the hearts of those unlearned and oppressed people. The one that I think most truly talks about the double life was "I got Shoes" " I got shoes, you got shoes, all God's chilluns got shoes when I get to heaven gonna put on my shoes Im gonna walk all over God's heaven , heaven everybody talkin bout heaven aint goin there heaven, heaven I'm gonna walk all over God's heaven. " They saw the wrong and left if up to God to judge the wrong dooer. I just want to be ready myself.
Naughty K
Volatile subject to say the least. While I think there is always some merit to the argument that fanaticism is something to fear be it from the left or the right, I believe fanaticism in standing for what one truly believes is to be respected if not agreed with. While I definitely consider myself a Christian conservative I cannot blindly support the Christian "right". Nothing can be truly Christian, in my opinion, is tolerance and love for ALL people is not one of its primary building blocks. That being said, I want to believe that the leaders of that wing all began with the best of intentions and honestly they stand for what is best for all of us. I think many succumb to the pressuers of the "system". That is an entire other thread. Problem is, (as with any political or spiritual movement), too many people let the leaders do their believing and deciding for them. I believe the Bible to be an unerring truth, and believe it when it readds, "You need no man to teach you". I think too many modern Christians take their theology from men rather from God and His word. Thats the difference between men and God, one will always let you down eventually, the other never will. But, as a good ole Southern Baptist boy, I have to also say that i see a lot of value in aligning yourself politically with a group that represents the same core values you hold dear. Just don't give them your blind allegiance.
You see, this is exactly the kind of post I was hoping for, and thanks to those who posted their views, one and all. Dallas, I can assume from your nickname that you enjoy something that could be termed an alternative lifestyle, and you still consider yourself a Christian. You don't use your religion to judge the behaviors of others, but to try to be the best person you can be. I think most Christians probably feel this way, so I was curious as to what practising Christians feel about being misrepresented by a small sector of the Christian faith that does not represent the views of the majority of it's members. I completely agree that tolerance and love for all was the message of Christ. I do respect a person' passion, but if they use that zeal to the detriment of their brothers, what respect should I pay to that? I can't find a clear path to do it.
I also agree with this, to some extent. I have to believe that most of them began their careers with some pure intention to do the will of God, but at some point have gotten sidetracked from that goal. There are certain things a person can do or say, that while they don't deserve to be shunned from society, they certainly DO or SHOULD lose their status as a leader. If a person's words reveal a heart of judgement and superiority, it overwhelms whatever good they may think they are doing by spreading a message of judgement along with the message of Christ, which brings shame to the words of Christ. This was above all the thing that Jesus himself rebuked. I agree that the only way to combat bad preaching is to think for yourself.
<!--QuoteBegin-dallaswifesharer@Jul 18 2005, 06:41 PM
I believe the Bible to be an unerring truth, and believe it when it readds, "You need no man to teach you". I think too many modern Christians take their theology from men rather from God and His word. Thats the difference between men and God, one will always let you down eventually, the other never will. But, as a good ole Southern Baptist boy, I have to also say that i see a lot of value in aligning yourself politically with a group that represents the same core values you hold dear. Just don't give them your blind allegiance.
[post=330036]Quoted post[/post]
[/quote]Well I was following you right along to the point where you said you can still se the value of aligning yourself with a movement because of it's same core values. Believe me, I'm not attacking you, I just have trouble understanding. If you know that a group is going to legislate for things you don't believe are right or kind or fair, and you still support them "basically" which means by voting for them, that means that against your better judgement, you are going to cause laws to come into effect that you don't believe in. Unlike other philosophical arguments, once a law is in place, it is very hard to undo it. This is what is causing me the psychological "tilt" in my head. Christians are the only group who can really save us from ourselves right now, there just aren't enough gays or people who give a crap about gay rights. It will have to come from within the group of people from where the detriment is coming. Those who don't support these ideas need to speak up, but because of their basic desire to avoid conflict, it just doesn't happen. FWIW, it is one of the things I find most beautiful about Christianity, that many Christians will not fight. I believe that is following their concept of Jesus, which is a good one. However, there is the scene where Jesus throws the moneychangers out of the temple, because their bad behavior will sully the concept of spirituality for others. So here we find ourselves, shady preachers declaring war on ordinary people, we find out that drug companies are giving them huge donations to spread the word in a way that glorifies their (the companies") causes. No one wants to cure aids because the profits from selling the drugs is so good (or cancer, for that matter). No wants wants to stick their neck out to protest because they are made to feel "Unchristian" if they say "Hey, I don't like that!" or even "What would Jesus do?".
It seems to me that the same group who says we're "unamerican" if we question our government are the same ones who say we're "unchristian" if we question anyone who speaks the name of Christ. We are where we are as a nation so far BECAUSE of our unique ability to question our government. This is an exciting thing to be able to get to witness in our own lifetime, how we handle this will determine much about what direction our country takes in the near future. I hope I am wrong and the blindness and tendancy to follow will not be our undoing.
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The ironic thing is that the people who are responsible for the 9/11 attacks are DEEPLY RELIGIOUS.
[post=329151]Quoted post[/post]
[/b][/quote]Yeah, they were religious zealots and fanatics. But were they Godly? I don't think so. Not according to the faith that I subscribe to. I find no religious reason to commit such horrific crimes against people. I can not find an exception anytime, anywhere. It is not my place to judge them as to what happens to them in an after life if there is one, but I have no problem judging what they did as being the opposite of what true faith in God brings. Love, not hate, kindness, not vindictiveness, and the lists of opposites goes on. "By their fruits ye shall know them" is one of Jesus's quotes.
Those are my beliefs.
I have the greatest respect for you, GotaBigOne and your beliefs. You are a wonderful person. In the end, that is what counts.
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you should read the quran. it's packed with delightful exhortations by mohammed to forcibly convert, murder, maim and torture unbelievers. seriously, it'd be a hilarious read if you were unaware that so many people actually take it seriously.
[post=330148]Quoted post[/post]
[/b][/quote]You are absolutely right Dr. Rock. I didn't word my sentence well. What I meant was I personnaly would never see a valid reason to commit these horribe crimes as people. I personally don't like capital punishment. But as you know I am not consulted on these things.
Of course, others may believe there are religious reasons to commit horrific crimes against people. That is their choice to believe. It is my choice to disagree with them.
GottaBigOne
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I would have to agree with you Freddie that they were religious but not Godly, because God doesn't exist!! Lol, just kidding, well... almost.
steve319
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Wait...I'm confused...is that something approaching tolerance and patience in a topic about religion and politics?
Did you guys switch meds and forget to tell me?
Anyway, I like it, so don't stop whatever you're doing.
I've probably told the tale before, but here goes. Grew up in a scary-angry Southern Baptist church (not a typical example of the breed--at least not at that time) in rural Appalachia and learned my lessons well, both the benignly good and the actively harmful. I learned to be a good boy, of course, and developed a sense of respect and compassion for others but also adopted an ugly way of looking at the world around me. By the time I was finishing high school, I was tremendously disheartened--furious, even--at the hypocrisy, intolerance, and venom I'd been fed and that was so much a part of how I interpreted life's parade. I felt tainted, knowing that I saw "sin" in every other person's motives and actions. To borrow the terminology, I was determined to be redeemed and cleansed of this noxious attitude and worked hard in the coming years to leave all of that behind.
It wasnât easy. I remained angry and resentful at the great beast "religion" and the damage done throughout history to individuals and cultures in its name. I went out of my way to spew my new brand of judgment (same taste, less holy) and scared my family on visits home (and probably enjoyed that a bit too much). Let me tell you, I was a joy on Christmas break. Life at the other end of that pendulum swing was just as unfulfilling but I was still getting my fix of feeling "right" while everyone else was wrong, so it felt familiar anyway. Took awhile longer for me to let all of the rage and bitterness go too, but man, is life sweet on the other side of that stuff.
I still believe in a divine creator. I still pray several times a day. But I canât believe in the exclusivity of any one path. Maybe Iâve found mine, but who can outline the path of another?
I support liberal causes and think that a positive vision of humanity is what faith is about. Since moving back to my hometown several years back to care for my elderly parents, itâs been a struggle to find a comfortable niche where I can fit in. Iâve tried several local churches and denominations over the years but always end up frustrated or even angry before a single service is over. I know there are positive, loving congregations out there. I'm sure of it. And while sometimes I think Iâd have better luck in another, more diverse area, I find myself wondering if there may not be a church out there anywhere that I wonât decide is too something or other.
As someone said earlier, I think most members of modern conservative churches are good people at heart who arenât looking to spread hate but are simply follow along with what they are fed (just as I did once upon a time). I think most are doing what they believe is the right thing and not worrying about how their donations are being spent.
I sometimes feel like an alien stranded on Planet Orthodoxy, but I have worked to be accepted without sacrificing my own admittedly-quirky views. (Have to admit, though, that the eccentric radical routine gets me lots of mileage with students sometimes. ) Iâm the youngest and probably most notorious faculty member on campus, and while Iâm generally regarded as a compassionate and âlovableâ guy, Iâm held at armâs length for being so outspoken and âshocking,â which is why your comment, Dee, made me smile:
âThis is what counts for religious in the new millennium? Weâre all doomedâ¦â
And Monty deserves better than to have his stalwart faith lumped in with my sorry-assed, doubting, hippie version.
Did you guys switch meds and forget to tell me?
Anyway, I like it, so don't stop whatever you're doing.
I've probably told the tale before, but here goes. Grew up in a scary-angry Southern Baptist church (not a typical example of the breed--at least not at that time) in rural Appalachia and learned my lessons well, both the benignly good and the actively harmful. I learned to be a good boy, of course, and developed a sense of respect and compassion for others but also adopted an ugly way of looking at the world around me. By the time I was finishing high school, I was tremendously disheartened--furious, even--at the hypocrisy, intolerance, and venom I'd been fed and that was so much a part of how I interpreted life's parade. I felt tainted, knowing that I saw "sin" in every other person's motives and actions. To borrow the terminology, I was determined to be redeemed and cleansed of this noxious attitude and worked hard in the coming years to leave all of that behind.
It wasnât easy. I remained angry and resentful at the great beast "religion" and the damage done throughout history to individuals and cultures in its name. I went out of my way to spew my new brand of judgment (same taste, less holy) and scared my family on visits home (and probably enjoyed that a bit too much). Let me tell you, I was a joy on Christmas break.
Life at the other end of that pendulum swing was just as unfulfilling but I was still getting my fix of feeling "right" while everyone else was wrong, so it felt familiar anyway. Took awhile longer for me to let all of the rage and bitterness go too, but man, is life sweet on the other side of that stuff.I still believe in a divine creator. I still pray several times a day. But I canât believe in the exclusivity of any one path. Maybe Iâve found mine, but who can outline the path of another?
I support liberal causes and think that a positive vision of humanity is what faith is about. Since moving back to my hometown several years back to care for my elderly parents, itâs been a struggle to find a comfortable niche where I can fit in. Iâve tried several local churches and denominations over the years but always end up frustrated or even angry before a single service is over. I know there are positive, loving congregations out there. I'm sure of it. And while sometimes I think Iâd have better luck in another, more diverse area, I find myself wondering if there may not be a church out there anywhere that I wonât decide is too something or other.
As someone said earlier, I think most members of modern conservative churches are good people at heart who arenât looking to spread hate but are simply follow along with what they are fed (just as I did once upon a time). I think most are doing what they believe is the right thing and not worrying about how their donations are being spent.
I sometimes feel like an alien stranded on Planet Orthodoxy, but I have worked to be accepted without sacrificing my own admittedly-quirky views. (Have to admit, though, that the eccentric radical routine gets me lots of mileage with students sometimes.
) Iâm the youngest and probably most notorious faculty member on campus, and while Iâm generally regarded as a compassionate and âlovableâ guy, Iâm held at armâs length for being so outspoken and âshocking,â which is why your comment, Dee, made me smile: Oh, MAN, if my coworkers could only read that one! Would surely confirm for them how messed up the world is after all.
âThis is what counts for religious in the new millennium? Weâre all doomedâ¦â
And Monty deserves better than to have his stalwart faith lumped in with my sorry-assed, doubting, hippie version.
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Originally posted by steve319@Jul 20 2005, 02:29 AM
And Monty deserves better than to have his stalwart faith lumped in with my sorry-assed, doubting, hippie version.
[post=330593]Quoted post[/post]
I'm having my faith compared to that of an angry, Subaru driving, male lesbian? HAHAHAHAHAHA!
Seriously, if you came out of them thar hills, and into the big city, I know some places that would be right for you. There are a couple of churches here who have dropped out of the Southern Baptist Convention for the reasons you described. The historic principles of Baptist freedoms just were not being adhered to, so that is why there is a group like the Alliance of Baptists, which is what many of the more LIBERAL Baptist churches belong to. There are actually quite a few in NC, and surprisingly, there are some up in your area.
steve319
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That's probably true. I think my geographic location adds to the level of anger and frustration that I'm carrying around.
I've tried a LOT of denominations over the years; probably the closest I've come to finding similar-minded people is a local Episcopal church, but to someone as toxically cynical and jaded as I am, the whole ritual aspect of that approach leaves me cold.
Yeah, I know, it's probably ME.
The first whiff of an exclusivist attitude (this is the ONLY true path), or less than total acceptance of gay/lesbian lifestyles, or even questioning the rights of women to choose, and I'm out. Maybe I'm looking for a REASON to get pissed. There's a United Church of Christ about ninety minutes from here that a friend of mine tells me I'd like, but I've heard those lines before...
I don't want to abandon the idea of a positive congregation--they are out there somewhere....probably. The reality just falls short in my experience.
Anyway, Melissa Etheridge and Ellen Degeneris are coming over in the morning to help me finish the addition onto the house and change the oil in the car, so I should get some sleep. You want to drive up and give us a hand, Monty?
