The Republican Party - Why?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by quintessence, Oct 7, 2008.

  1. quintessence

    quintessence Member

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    Even though I am an Australian citizen, I follow US presedential elections as closely as I can. And when you consider the great influence the "leader of the free world" possess' it's little wonder so many non-US citizens have an opinion about who should run the most powerful (or rather most nuclear weapon equipped) country in the world.

    That being said, as an outsider I'm at a loss as to why a political party such as the Republican Party garners such a following. I am however curious and would like to know why.

    So, if any American citizens could share their opinion regardless of political affiliation I would be grateful :smile:.

    Q.
     
  2. Industrialsize

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

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    Ignorance?
     
  3. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    Why are you at a loss? If, from your vantage point, you believe that Republicans are responsible for the credit crisis, high energy costs, expensive health insurance, etc., then you are gleaning misinformation.

    This forum is completely dominated by Democrats - so you will get a very slanted view reading these threads.
     
  4. catman

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    To quote Ralph Nadar, 'its like a two headed prom date, no matter which you pick, your screwed"....

    That said, I am not a huge fan of either, yet....

    McCain keeps saying "maverick" and voted 95% of what unka george said to (much like Al Gore tried to tell us he was 'a fighter' when he sat on his hands for 8 years with Clinton)...

    Obama? he keeps drifting to the center and I don't hear anything really 'new' out of him, just recycled.

    That said I clearly see McCain as 4 more years of Bush and war....

    I constantly see "W" stickers (from the last election) on cars and am baffled...are you proud of the last 8 years?? I would be embarrassed (oddly I see them most on large gas guzzling SUVs so...)
     
  5. killerb

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    While driving around my neighborhood yesterday, I saw a few houses with MCCain signs in their yards or in their windows & wondered what it is about him that makes them want him as president.

    I wondered the same thing about the people who wanted to give GWB another shot after his first term. I also wonder if they're happy with the job he's done.
     
  6. javyn

    javyn New Member

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    I am more 'right' or 'conservative' leaning in my political beliefs due to my education and background in economics. IN THEORY, a Republican would be the better choice because of their hands off approach regarding the economy.

    Of course, theory and practice are completely different and the Bush administration (the new, religious fundamentalist, NeoCon party that took power from the rational conservatives during the Reagan era) has grown the government more than all previous presidents put together.

    In a nutshell, Americans who support the Republican party usually do so out of a fear of socialism. This Republican "base" though is cracking, because the religious wackos have hijacked the party and are taking it into a direction far worse than the Democrats ever would.

    In short, we, and the world, are screwed because of it.

    I consider myself a libertarian now. They value the economic freedom preached (but not practiced) by Republicans, as well as the social freedoms preached (but not practiced) by Democrats.

    People here vote Republican because the small business is what drives the United States economy, and the upper middle class small business owner is always on the radar of Democrats to be taxed out of existence. I wish people would wake up and see beyond the whole "we need to tax the rich" rhetoric.

    When Democrats claim that they will tax the rich, they mean they will tax struggling small business owners, that magic 200k + income bracket. The true rich, those that make millions of dollars every year are never taxed by neither Republican or Democrat.
     
    #6 javyn, Oct 7, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2008
  7. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    This is a pretty fair assessment. I'm not convinced that the 'religious wackos' have hijacked the party. I believe they hold a greater voice within the Party than they did 20 years ago, but they certainly aren't in control. In addition, the expanding government has been attributable to conflict in Iraq and Afghan., not domestic spending. The dollars expended, including the bailout(s) however, have been on the Repub's watch.
     
  8. pfisherking

    pfisherking New Member

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    Javyn, well put.
    I too lean right (probably further than you) and agree wholeheartedly with your post, though I will probably hold my nose and vote (R) this November for lack of viable alternatives.
    Though in this blue state of confusion it won't matter except locally.

    Now watch more money get flushed down the rathole

    Chuck the Pfish
     
  9. bimmli

    bimmli Member

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    Agree entirely! Most of my relatives in Europe complain their small businesses are very difficult to maintain and grow due to the high taxes imposed on them by their socialist leaning governments. Most people in the US don't want these high taxes which the Democratic Party believes will "save" us all.
     
  10. pym

    pym New Member

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    Why? My guess is so that the self loathing,sexually confused,sychophantic,bullying,lying,ex-high school quarterback types who grew up only to realize "They aint all That" would have a last bastion of despair and hopeless-ness to turn to. I noticed that your O.P. emanates from "Down Under". A recent post here described a terrible tradgedy involving a young boy and a massacre he perpetrated at one of your zoo's. I think he has the MAKINGS of a fine young REPUBLICAN.
     
  11. mindseye

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    Waaaaah! Those Democrats and their pesky facts!

    quintessence: The Republican party has succeeded in recent years by cobbling together a coalition of different interests such as social conservatives (Pat Robertson, James Dobson), global isolationists (Pat Buchanan, William Buckley), states' rights advocates (Ron Paul), and industry capitalists (George W. Bush, ExxonMobil).

    The coalition has been largely successful because they've not only been able to secure massive financial support from the oil industry (which seeks to promote their foreign policy interests in the middle east), the pharmaceutical industry (which seeks indefinite patent protection and closed borders to generic imports), the financial services industry (which seeks favorable lending and credit terms with little oversight and regulation); but they've also enjoyed widespread word-of-mouth advertising on the part of the religious right, getting their message spread for free through religious venues.

    When times are good, this coalition is strong, because each of the constituent members is able to air their views. When times get rough, this coalition fractures as the country starts to unify around a crisis. Case in point: the 1929 stock market crash led to a depression, and in the next election, the Democrat defeated the incumbent Republican by 472 to 59 electoral votes, and Democrats picked up a whopping twelve Senate seats.
     
  12. D_O_Revoir

    D_O_Revoir Account Disabled

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    [/quote]
    When Democrats claim that they will tax the rich, they mean they will tax struggling small business owners, that magic 200k + income bracket. The true rich, those that make millions of dollars every year are never taxed by neither Republican or Democrat.[/quote]


    I'm pretty sure that there are no tax raises for households that make under 250k under the Obama plan. I also think that it is a misconception that small business owners make more than that.
     
  13. tripod

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    I can tell you what the deal is.

    The South East was populated by the Scots-Irish primarily. The Scots Irish are an interesting lot and are present throughout the United States but are the predominant ethnic majority in the South East (there are tons of Scots Irish people in California but they are not the dominant ethnic majority by any means). The Scots Irish are suspicious of authority on one hand, but they desire a strong tribal leader on the other. They have a top down authority structure and usually defer discussion and contemplation in favor of the tribal position on any given subject. They are violent and militant. They are highly suspicious of outsiders and anyone that is not a member of their tribe. I don't want to go into the history of the Ulster plantation and the Protestant populating of Northern Ireland, but if you want to look into it, the information is out there.

    Manufacturing was always heavy in the "union' states above the Mason Dixon line. The Southern economy of the U.S. was always more agri-based because of the mild winters they experience. With the invention of air conditioning in the early twentieth century and it's affordability that started in the 50's, manufacturing jobs started to slowly migrate South. The union battles that were hard fought in the North seemed to gain little traction in the South in the 20's and 30's. One of the KKK's primary objectives in the twentieth century was to intimidate the unions from establishing footholds in the South East through violence. It was largely succesful with some intense Union battles being fought in the mountains in West Virginia and some unions taking hold in Florida, but no real union presence was to come of all this struggle.

    So, the South East states are all presently "right to work" states which mean that their is virtually no union presence and the workers have no real rights to organize.

    Many corporate manufacturing firms decided to move their manufacturing base down South, offering many Northern families the option to relocate down South where the companies were to set up operations. The unions were not welcome to follow, but the workers were.

    Commerce started to move to the South East following the manufacturing jobs coming down South with the new Northern families that didn't mind the Southern ways of the Scots Irish (many of them were "Northern rednecks").

    There was in turn a HUGE need for new housing and infastructure to support these transplanted Northen families. There was also more jobs for the local Southern people to have as well. All of this meant that the North was losing population and the South East was gaining it. When a state loses population and others gain it, the electoral maps start to change as a result of some states losing representatives and others gaining them.

    After Lyndon Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, most Southerners vowed to never vote for a Democrat again and the entire South went Republican. When the Northern Democratic states started to lose population in huge amounts as the South was gaining theirs... the House of Representatives started to turn Republican. By the 90's, the House was firmly in the hands of the Republican party.

    The newspapers, radio and television stations were snatched up by large conglomerate corporations with the deregulation of the media industry at the end of the first Bush administration.

    "Real news" was starting to be replaced by conservative propaganda disguised as news.

    There was also a decades long campaign waged by the Republican party to paint liberals as "Volvo driving, abortion loving, homosexual, latte drinkers who hate God". The consolidation of the media, the advent of the FOX news channel (the information dissemination wing of the Republican party) in 1996 and the rise of the News Corporation by Rupert Murdoch (you should know all about him since you are Australian), greatly facilitated this characterization until it was ingrained in the psyche of nearly every American that watched TV, listened to the radio, or read newspapers.

    So, to sum it up you had: 1). The South's vow to never vote for a Democrat again after Lyndon Johnson signed the civil rights bill. 2). The population migration to the South away from the North resulted in more power for the Republican party in the House and (to a lesser degree) the Senate. 3). The consolidation and corporatizing of the media. 4). The advent of the FOX news channel and the rise in power of the News Corporation. and 4). The objectification and vilification of the term "liberal"

    I should also add the domination of the AM radio airwaves by conservative dee-jays like Rush Limbaugh and Michael Savage also greatly added to the succesful dissemination of the Republican platform, mindset and the demonization of the liberals and progressives.

    You now have a LOT of angry white people that vote out of the hate and fear that was instilled in them either by their elders or from the media.

    They make sure that they make it to the polls while the liberals sometimes just couldn't make it to the voting booth on election day because they were "too busy" or have some other excuse. Black folk's votes have been consistently violated throughout American history and they almost always vote for the Democratic party.

    The Republican party's "caging lists" of today are the latest form of "Jim Crowe" to rear it's ugly head in this day and age. "Caging Lists" are when the Republicans develop lists of democratic voters in economically disadvantaged voting districts (black folk) and try to disenfranchise the voters from actually getting their votes to "count". All Republican votes are count, but not all of the Democratic votes are.

    Conragts to those who read all of this! :smile:
     
    #13 tripod, Oct 7, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2008
  14. Phil Ayesho

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    Listen- Starry- eyed investor


    You keep SAYING shit without any argument or proof.


    Ever Since Reagan introduced the "free hand of the market" voodoo economics, the republican party has been PUSHING this idiocy in every possible venue.

    This "government-BAD" De-regulation BULLSHIT had been the cornerstone of what your party has CONNED you into thinking is conservative economic policy.

    I am neither Republican NOR Democrat- I have voted BOTH ways....

    ANd I am telling you that, FROM ITS INCEPTION, folks who really understand economics have thought that Republican style free market theory is ridiculous, and dangerous.

    YOu sad, pathetic "true believers" are the only ones who deny evidence and ignore results, and keep on believing without any shred of evidence that the idea works.

    Because PEOPLE ( all of us ) tend to take advantages when we think we can get away with it... an atmosphere of deregulation and cozy relations with large corporations will ALWAYS result in graft, corruption, and speculation frenzy.

    THis is PRECISELY what evolutionary theory SAYS will happen ( and "free market" theory is an evolutionary theory- that the market is an ecosystem that will seek balance )

    REGULATION is the Predator that keeps the population of speculation in check.

    Even that brainless dipshit Palin- after saying government should get outta the way... flip flopped and said, not 30 seconds later, that the government needs to "regalate" the market...

    This country has had its grand experiment with free market theory 'republican style"-- and it has FAILED in the most spectacular way possible.


    But you keep clinging to your weak rationalizations... keep holding on to that anchor you imagine is a life vest...
    Keep on ignoring the reality of 10 years of republican intiatives, 10 years of repiblican rule--
    10 years where funding for research and the future of this nation economy was ignored, because the republicans were too pre-occupied stetting up huge contracts with their buddies and giving the avarice of big money a free ride.
     
  15. sargon20

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    The current Republican Party is an alliance between the preachers and the plutocrats — between the religious right, which hates gays, abortion and the theory of evolution, and the economic right, which hates Social Security, Medicare and taxes on rich people. Surrounding this core is a large periphery of politicians and lobbyists who joined the movement not out of conviction, but to share in the spoils.

    -Paul Krugman
     
  16. sargon20

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    And they still haven't 40 years later. Without the race card and the Southern Strategy there would be NO Republican Party in it's current form. So you can talk about pro-business and whatever but the fact is without the Southern Strategy they would not be in power.
     
  17. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    Here again, your implication is that the Republicans are responsible for the credit crisis. This is getting old. Where did Raines, Barney Frank, Clinton Admin, etc. fall into the mix? I suppose their fuckups were 'A-okay'

    This is from the NYTimes September 30, 1999:

    In a move that could help increase home ownership rates among

    minorities and low-income consumers, the Fannie Mae Corporation

    is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase

    from banks and other lenders.

    The action, which will begin as a pilot program involving 24

    banks in 15 markets -- including the New York metropolitan region

    -- will encourage those banks to extend home mortgages to

    individuals whose credit is generally not good enough to qualify

    for conventional loans. Fannie Mae officials say they hope to

    make it a nationwide program by next spring.

    Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages,

    has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton

    Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate

    income people....

    I'm pretty sure the Clinton Administration was Democratic.

    Medical care:

    Why is Medical Care so Expensive? - Hans F. Sennholz - Mises Institute

    Again, the Lehmans and the Bear Stearns of the world became way, way too aggressive with the credit default swaps. Neither Repubs or Dems undertood/stand these instruments. Also, falling real estate prices are also reponsible for the foreclosure rates. Did Republicans cause housing prices to drop? That would be a neat trick.

    Your anti-deregulation rants are tiresome and used in every explanation you have in terms of the current crisis. So many other conditions converged to bring us into this situation. Deregulation was one factor. Many need inclusion - greedy realtors, developers, overzealous homebuyers, ratings agencies (big one), flush credit markets and appreciating home prices, 5 strong years of good stock market performance, etc., etc.

    Have you ever even sat down and had a conversation with a Republican; or do you glean your opinions strictly from extreme left outlets and socialist books?
     
  18. tripod

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    Actually the problem was with predatory lending and adjustable rate mortgages, the fact that people had little or bad credit was beside the point. The problem was the fact that these lenders were makin' MAD fuckin' money off of these hybrid ARMs by making them pay out the nose for a simple house. Those mortgages start out all fine and dandy but get uglier over time. You of all people should know that... you do, but that would mean that the poor black folk would be the victims and you could NEVER see that.

    The other problem was the deliberate over-valuation of assets to produce equity. It was the same problem with the S&L's twenty years ago and it is happening all over again. That's what we mean when we say regulation Star, companies shouldn't be allowed to use flawed and skewed valuation models when defining their assets. It allows businesses the ability to lie and cheat their way to the next quarter or next year while they are going under. It buys them time as they scramble to fudge the books and squeeze every monetary drop out of their assets that they can before they are sold out from under them. How can people from the industry regulate themselves? They fucking can't, especially when it comes to the world of finance. You are kiddin' yourself Star.
     
  19. SpeedoGuy

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    The temptation to make snarky comments is strong...is this really just an invitation to do so?

    C'mon. Australia certainly has a conservative party. I believe its called the "Liberal Party" there. Shouldn't the reasons why conservative voters in Australia would attracted to it be quite similar for those in the US to be attracted to the GOP?
     
  20. D_Bob_Crotchitch

    D_Bob_Crotchitch New Member

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    The taxes Obama proposes on incomes of over 250K will hit small businesses. Don't ever think that Congress is going to tax the very rich because they are the very rich.
    It is funny claiming that the reps receive massive support from the financial services industry when the large firms have given hundreds of thousands of dollars a piece to the democratic national campaign fund. They want someone in office who will greatly increase domestic spending. That spending will temporarily lead to jobs. The jobs lead to an increase in funds being deposited at the financial firms. This increases the amount they collect from yearly fees on IRA and 401k accounts.
    I have always found it strange that anyone who claims to be a Dem or Rep would claim that a president spent money when Congress and only Congress can appropriate funds. Both parties have a strong enough following to be able to stop a lot of the pork. They are both guilty of it. What a crock we were told when they promised no pork in this congress. It hasn't stopped or decreased. By it's very nature, pork projects are used to buy votes in their home districts. Robert Byrd has long been known as the king of pork.
     
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