The Return of the Tax and Spend Democrat

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Flashy, May 11, 2009.

  1. Flashy

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    Well, for those smitten fans on here, they likely won't admit it...but Obama has already returned the Tax and Spend Democrat label that Bill Clinton fought so hard to change.

    Frankly, after 8 miserable years of Bush, and what promises to be a miserable 4 or 8 years of Obama, we have now returned to total abandonment of any type of principle of responsible spending.

    Doubtless the Obama fans will begin shrieking, and blaming Bush, who i have already included as being part of the mess, and holding Obama blameless, but the announcements of the past couple of days and his behavior regarding Chrysler, the Budget Deficits, the The new Budget, threatening California with holding back federal funds (that Californians contributed to) and a host of other issues have put an end to the achievements of Bill CLinton and the new democrats.

    Bill Clinton, was the first democratic president in ages to refute the traditional "tax and spend" liberal tag...as a result...his sane policies regarding spending and taxing actually worked brilliantly...

    let us recap...Bill Clinton raised taxes on the wealthier elements of the tax base and corporations, at the *SAME* time, he reined in the growth of spending on social spending...lo and behold, for the first time in ages, we were actually almost in a position to begin paying down the debt with budget surpluses...

    as a result, Bill Clinton showed that a taxing and cutting agenda works *BEST*.

    far better than taxcutting and increased spending (Bush & Reagan and republican and democratic congresses)

    so now, with a blue print that works, why exactly is President Obama now taking us back to one of the nubmer of formulas that does *NOT* work...i.e. not freezing, slowing or cutting spending, as part of an overall plan of action, *INCLUDING* tax hikes?

    The answer is simple... because Obama is a Tax and Spend President, no different than Carter, and others who through the 70s and 80s, managed to be so incompetent, that the "tax and Spend Liberal" became a phrase that stuck until, thankfully, Bill Clinton came along and changed the paradigm.

    So why now, are we going *BACK* to paradigm that does not work? When faced with the most dark time in our nations economic history in decades, our President is now proposing a much needed Health Care reform, which would be really terrific if it works, yet, as a fact, even with the news of the last day or two about how warm and fuzzy everything is with the health care reps, the President *STILL* cannot pay for the plan.

    So why now, with the news of an additional 180 billion in deficits over the next two years added to the already terrifying deficit, a result of the last and current administrations combined follies, as stated by the White HOuse, and the White HOuse's absurdly rosy predictions about growth and GDP in its projected budgets, are we going ahead with this.

    Is there *ANYONE* here...anyone who can *HONESTLY* claim, that we can *SPEND* our way out of this crisis *WITHOUT* making cuts to spending in addition to the necessary tax increases?

    If anyone of you who blindly support this president, can tell me how exactly we are going to reduce the deficits over the next decade, pay for a massive new health plan,

    Why deviate from the one plan that has worked, (Clinton) to select something that clearly does not, just because he (Obama) is "your guy".

    Before anyone turns this into a republican/democrat thread, think about what has been said. both republican (tax cut, nothing else) and democrat (tax hike, spend) have proven to not work. You have a president (Bush) who tried and failed the former strategy, now you have a president (Obama) who is retrying to the latter...

    how exactly do you expect this to work?

    I can understand the hysterics on here comparing Bush and Obama...and trying to draw the differences between them (ironically, they are much more alike than most will admit)

    But i would like to hear the Pro-Obama partisans, try and compare why this plan will work in comparison to the *PROVEN* Clinton plan, that actually *CHANGED* things.

    How do going back to things that do not work, from the 70s democratic administration(Carter), make more sense than going back to what *DID* work from the 90s democratic administration (Clinton)?

    he is already running a 1.8 trillion dollar deficit this year...not once, in his 10 year plan, does the deficit drop below 500 billion...and that is asssuming that his Budget's fnumbers forecast is right, which it is already proving wrong so far according to the Congressional Budget Office, thus ballooning the real numbers.

    his unrealistic plans for scaring up new revenue, are essentially DOA (the cap trading, and the tax credit on charitable deductions) so how exactly is he going to

    1. reduce the deficit.
    2. pay for the new health care plan
    3. keep the deficit from getting even worse than projected, as inflation rises, tax receipts lower, and the credit crunch continues, with regards to the coming credit card crisis.


    Why will the Obama plan be different, if it cannot find the money to pay for its plans, but also will not cut spending to offset the benefits of raised revenues from tax hikes?

    Please go ahead...tell me why the Obama plan, will work, when it provides none of the fiscal discipline and restraint that the CLinton plan, which worked, did.
     
  2. pym

    pym New Member

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    It ain't about the 'Cutting' any longer....it is about the 'Digging' in now.
    I would gladly 'Dig' in and pay my share of more taxation to get our country out of the mess it is in. But frankly....i don't think it will make one bit of difference. I KNOW i live in a country that is unwilling to do the same.
    People in this country have long ago forgotten about supporting America. It is all about the cheapest price, and who gives a damn where it's from.
    I am stunned that as GM/FORD/CHRYSLER are dying on the vine.....companies that have supported the American way of life for 6 generations.....people will still by a foreign made car or item. What is even more funny to me is people discussing how they would buy the latest CORVETTE or V8 Camaro or some other nonsense Gas guzzling monstrosity that has absolutely NOTHING to do with an automakers bread and butter lines of product. Yeah....i believe everything i read on the internet, Yup, thats me! Mr. 40 thousand dollar automobile buyer!.....RIGHT.........
    An entire generation or 2 living complete fantasy lives. But that's the internet.
    Not too much anyone can tell me about the last 47 years i have lived through. I saw the disease start in the Mid 70's and the 'cure' in the guise of the Jack Welch's.{Jack Welch....maybe the biggest CUNT this country ever spawned}
    Sorry...i aint buying 'STOCKS' as an industry.
    Call me the "SUCKER" that still drives a FORD. That is willing to make personal financial sacrifice that will help the USA.
    That still buys US Savings Bonds, and has served my country.
    That does not understand the entitled 'ME' Generation.
    That doesn't have the GALL in HELL to call our president an "ASS-HOLE".
    Still supporting OBAMA....and proud of it.
     
  3. houtx48

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    which is worse tax and spend or barrow and spend? a black president who can speak in complete sentences or an aging frat rat that has to be told to come in out of the rain?
     
  4. Flashy

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    While i understand your frustration, pymster...it does not really adress what i was talking about, though i do understand why you wrote it.

    1. GM and Chrysler or already dead on the vine...but Ford is not. Ford is solid and in far better shape. they will still be around for the long term.

    2.. You are not a sucker for driving a ford...you are a guy that believes in buying a car you believe in for both patriotic and other reasons. In fact, there is nothing wrong with buying a Ford truck, or a taurus, or other vehicle. Ford deserves your business...they did not beg from the government, and they are still competitive...I say bravo to you for buying a Ford. If you want to buy an american car, I say buy a Ford...they deserve your business...GM and Chrysler do not.

    3. Your service to your country is always appreciated :smile:

    4. As for buying savings bonds...well...to each his own :wink:...personally i'd rather buy munis.

    5. I do not know who is calling the president an asshole, but i know it is done by both sides.

    6. I am not telling you not to support Obama, but i am asking why you support a plan that clearly does not work.

    Spend-now, pay-later measures, simply fail, no matter which party pays for it. Bill Clinton's economic plan worked, Bush's didn't, neither will Obama's.
    It is a simple fact of economic life that politicians will eventually need to increase revenue and cut spending to cover the government's debts. there is no other choice.

    One must be accompanied by the other...we are nearly broke as a nation. The time is growing short, the deficit is rising, the debt is rising, inflation will rise higher and higher as we print money to keep paying off what we do not have...

    there is no other choice...we owe over 45 trillion in Social security and Medicare long term, we are drowning in debt and deficits and red ink.

    there is no other way...we must raise taxes *AND* cut spending. I do not like high taxes, but i do not have a problem paying them, if i know the equal important measure in balancing the budget and getting us in good shape, (cutting spending) is done too.

    we simply cannot keep spending and spendning and not paying it back. Clinton was the last president to get it right.



    P.S. - is there a reason you have not PM'd me back? :smile:
     
  5. Flashy

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    I am sorry, you think this administration is not borrowing? Just where do you think we came up with the 500 billion for the stimulus?

    and your idiotic comment aside, this was not a comment on race, fraternities, rain, aging or complete sentences.

    the comparsion was with the LAST president to balance a budget...BILL CLINTON.

    *NOT* George W. Bush. In fact, Obama is making the exact same mistake as Bush.



    The fact is, that Obama is in fact taxing, borrowing, spending, and not cutting.

    Clinton, Taxed, Borrowed, Spent *AND* most importantly, CUT and FROZE.

    look at the results...a budget surplus.

    Obama's forecast for his won budget does not show anything other than a budget deficit, never lower than 500 billion dollars in each of the next 10 years.


    So grow up and answer the question, or be quiet.

    this has *NOTHING* to do with Bush vs. Obama...

    this is OBAMA and *CLINTON*.

    one offered a plan that succeeded, the other has not.
     
  6. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    If I may:


    1. Making a phony public relations gesture asking Secretaries to cut $100 million each in spending.

    2. Make outlandish campaign promises announcing cutting the deficit in half, etc. etc., and upon being elected, continue to get pushed around by lobbyists in all industries. {what did he say about lobbyists and the White House again?}

    3. Announce implementation of healthcare reform which will cost a minimum of $1 trillion - with absolutely no means of paying for it.

    4. Promise to draw down expenditures in Iraq when there is no way in hell to accomplish that. Vote pandering at its finest, ladies and gentlemen.

    5. Take a stance on ending automatic subsidies to farmers and capping at $250K; only to cave like the town whimp when confronted by the farm lobby.

    6. Moan about 'mortgaging our children's future' during the campaign trail, and then do precisely that upon skipping into the Oval Office.


    The truth is, there is no plan, Flashy.

    He doesn't have to answer questions like this because 60% of the nation are SHEEP that indulge his every word.

    He can, and will, continue to do whatever the hell he wants to do so long as his disciples/worshippers/drones continue marching and bowing to His Highness.
     
    #6 B_starinvestor, May 11, 2009
    Last edited: May 11, 2009
  7. Industrialsize

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

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    and one hasn't even been in office 4 months the last time I checked.
     
  8. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    a lot of spending and borrowing for 4 months, huh?:rolleyes:
     
  9. mikeyh9in

    mikeyh9in Active Member

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    Well, according to Bush and Cheney, Obama has no responsibility for anything that happens the first 10 months of his administration. So, let's just put off this discussion until October.

    Let's also remember, the recession that Clinton inherited from Bush, it took close to a year for the economy to show signs of recovery.


     
  10. Flashy

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    i see, so the budget that he passed, based on the 10 year plan, with no significant spending cuts hasn't actually happened?

    doesn't matter what month he is in...he passed a budget that does those things discussed.

    or do you not recall passage of the budget, and the fact that the deficit is now 1.8 trillion?

    it is his *PLAN* it passed. it is reality and it offered no cuts....which is why we are where we are, and why, your post is irrelevant

    Clinton passed his budget plan
    Obama passed his budget plan

    doesn't matter the stage.

    Taxing and spending without cutting does not work...see Jimmy Carter
    Cutting Taxes & spending w/out cutting does not work...see Ronald Reagan
    Taxing and spending without cutting does not work...see G.H.W. Bush
    Taxing and cutting spending does work...see Bill Clinton
    Cutting Taxes & spending w/out cutting does not work..see George W Bush
    Taxing and spending without cutting will not work...see Barack Obama
     
  11. houtx48

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    spending money like a drunkin repb in a gay bar trollin for twinks? while this is not on the subject i'd like to know where all the money they shoveled at new orleans with both hands ended up?
     
  12. houtx48

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    where is all the increased revenue that Bush said was going to pay for his spending at least with tax and spend it appears like they are trying to cover their asses.
     
  13. Flashy

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    once again, do you have anything worthwhile to contribute to this thread?
     
  14. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    wow - did you even read the OP?

    The question is:

    How is Obama planning on paying for his massive spending spree?

    The recession was never brought into question.
     
  15. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    You could make an argument that if the money borrowed money were spent very very strategically, there might be some good to come of it.

    Dedicate $100 billion to school vouchers so we can help those kids who are really trying but are sadlled in schools where the other kids just cause trouble.

    Create lots of transmission lines for wind energy electricity to be moved to where it is of some use. ( I think wind is only good if oil hits $140/barrel but we coud be more prepared because oil will be $140/ barrel soon again)

    Develop more efficient railroads. Shipping by big rig seems inefficient.

    High speed trains like in Japan. I could see them in the Eastern coast, The Midwest Chicago/Milwaukee corridor, the San Diego to San Fran corridor.

    All I see in this budget is a complete sell out to the liberal wing of the Democrats, which will kill our economy IMO.
     
  16. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    Considering that Geithner said this last Wednesday on an interview with Charlie Rose after Rose asked if the gov't would be enacting legislation on bank executive pay etc after the TARP money is paid back:

    Geithner: " these things are about preventing the next boom."




    that's interesting. They want to prevent the next boom because they are blaming this recession on the fact that it followed a boom.

    This Administration is pushing for a zero growth, zero-sum game economy with no business cycles.

    Given that objective, how in the hell are we going to increase tax receipts? It will be impossible.

    Wondering if Obama ever sat in on one economics class between writing books about himself.

    Ultimately, in a pander play to his liberal army, Obama will start taxing wealth. People will be forced to pay an annual tax on net worth; similar to property taxes on their homes.

    A retiree who has no earned income and is living off of investments [from a lifetime of responsible savings] will have a much larger percentage of their income confiscated by government because of Obama's Wild West spending policy.

    This OP is dead nuts on the mark.

    While the gleeful libs are singing and holding hands, skipping through the parks decked out from head to toe in Obama garb, there is a major, major financial disaster unfolding right in front of their eyes.
     
  17. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    Whats funny is the Reagan revolution unleashed the largest sustained boom in human history and we choose to disregard the wonder of it. We throw it away.

    Consider where we were following the *malaise* of Jimmy Carter's *stagflation* and how much the human condition was bettered by lower taxes and the Laffer curve.

    Gasoline was 29c a gallon 41 years ago, Its $2 today. Most of that is taxes. Gasoline is cheaper than bottled water.

    If you examine the human condition of the 50's and 60's and 70's as compared to today, our lives are so much better than b/4 its not even close.
     
  18. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    starinvestor: Curiosity killed the cat. Just how much YOU make a year?
     
  19. pym

    pym New Member

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    He has already admitted to being financed by his dad's HUGE retired teacher pension......thats right...his dads. I haven't had an allowance in over 40 years....back then it was 50 cents a week.....if i was lucky.
     
  20. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    Yah.

    I have a lot to gain by answering that question here.:rolleyes:
     
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