The Revolution Continues... in Wisconsin?

[B_VinylBoy]

I guess mass protesting is really becoming a trend these days...
More than 10,000 Wisconsinites marched on the state Capitol Tuesday, as crowds rallied in cities around the state, students walked out of high schools and public employees lined roadways holding aloft banners declaring their determination to battle an attempt by Republican Governor Scott Walker to strip state workers of their collective bargaining rights and pack state government positions with political patronage appointees. Another huge crowd -- numbering perhaps 8,000 -- surrounded the Capitol for a Tuesday night rally. Protests spread to the Milwaukee area, where hundreds of workers massed outside Walker's suburban home.

The crowds in Madison will swell Wednesday. The city's schools are closing, as teachers take sick days to join the protests and buses packed with public employees roll into the city. The protests, unprecedented in recent Wisconsin history, are being organized by union—the American Federation of State County and Municipal Employees, the Wisconsin Education Association, the American Federation of Teachers-Wisconsin and others—in anticipation of a Thursday vote on whether to give the governor powers that the senior member of the state legislature describes as nothing short of dictatorial.

Tens of Thousands Protest Move by Wisconsin's Governor to Destroy Public Sector Unions | The Nation

Damn...maybe the world really is going to come to an end in 2012?

 

[MercyfulFate]

It was predicted. Hopefully America riots as a whole

 

[SeeDickRun]

Benefits or salary. Sometimes you can't have all of both.

 

[B_Alt33]

These teachers are a bunch or CRY BABIES. Wisconsin has unemployment of 20% if not greater as reported by the Huffington Post. As the unemployed people if they would take a 10% pay cut just so see a pay check again. The teachers and their unions are the ones destroying the educational system in country. I live in a county in upstate NY where we pay about $12k per student per year to get a 50% drop out rate. These teachers are spoiled brats that aren't willing to sacrifice anything for the education of the youth in this country.

Wisconsin needs Chris Christie to teach them a lesson. If you don't like the pay get a new job.

 

[Bbucko]

These teachers are a bunch or CRY BABIES. Wisconsin has unemployment of 20% if not greater as reported by the Huffington Post. As the unemployed people if they would take a 10% pay cut just so see a pay check again. The teachers and their unions are the ones destroying the educational system in country. I live in a county in upstate NY where we pay about $12k per student per year to get a 50% drop out rate. These teachers are spoiled brats that aren't willing to sacrifice anything for the education of the youth in this country.

Wisconsin needs Chris Christie to teach them a lesson. If you don't like the pay get a new job.

20%? Really? Got a link for that?

 

[B_VinylBoy]

"If you don't like the pay get a new job."
How simple and easy! But in a state that has 20% unemployment, what job are they supposed to get? And keep in mind, "I don't know" is not a valid answer.

Also, consider that many of the high school students are also in the crowds supporting the teachers. Next to parents, they're one of the most critical pieces of a child's development. The argument for better education standards & funding has been around for a long time and the solution is obvious. It's not about throwing money at random at the situation, it's about improving its infrastructure. Updated textbooks, curriculum, facilities, providing a safe neighborhood and atmosphere for learning... inspiring & rewarding teachers who work their asses off to make sure your kids know how to spell to do better. That isn't done by just giving someone a pat on the back and a blue ribbon that says "Teacher of the Year".

Education is one of the very last things any government should be touching to look for ways to trim a budget. BTW, if you did look up the Unemployment Rate for Wisconsin, you'd see that it's really 7%... not the 20% you just touted. More proof that we shouldn't be proposing any cuts in education anywhere in this country.

 

[B_Alt33]

Finding another job is not my problem what is my problem is paying into an education system that has failed our students and this country. Avg. teacher salary in NY is about $44k that does not include the free health care, pension and retirement. Other people making $44k in the private sector pay their own health care, pension and retirement and pay the taxes for the teachers. So where is the issue that a teacher now should pay some of their own way.

The students have no idea why they are there just check Youtube. They look at this as a day off. There are plenty of people just coming out of college that would take that new teaching job and pay their share of the 12% in a heart beat. There are many of the unemployed that would do the teaching job and gladly pay the 12%. This has nothing to do with students it has to do with greed and entitlement. So the lesson for the students is we teachers could give a shit less about you and your education we teachers are ENTITLED to our benefits at the cost of your parents. Too fucking bad, real great teaching job.

Bucko for you
» BREAKING NEWS: UNEMPLOYMENT RATE HITS 22%+++ Wisconsin Unemployment Solution

http://dwd.wisconsin.gov/dwd/newsreleases/ui_local_default.pdf

the numbers do vary but if you take them as an average the unemployment would be greater than 12%.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Finding another job is not my problem

And that's precisely the attitude that is not needed in this discussion.
If you don't care about others, then why should anyone care about your problems?

what is my problem is paying into an education system that has failed our students and this country. Avg. teacher salary in NY is about $44k that does not include the free health care, pension and retirement. Other people making $44k in the private sector pay their own health care, pension and retirement and pay the taxes for the teachers. So where is the issue that a teacher now should pay some of their own way.

This is what's so laughable about these arguments about cutting funding. With so many obviously bloated areas where money can be trimmed to deal with economic issues, you want to look at someone who makes a salary that is barely lower middle class. I never thought I would see the day where someone would be arguing that a job that pays $44K a year with benefits is "too much" in this country. LOL!!!

The students have no idea why they are there just check Youtube.

You clearly underestimate the mental capacities of young people in this country.

They look at this as a day off.

And on their day off, they went to a rally where their teachers were to help them fight for their rights instead of back home to watch "16 & Pregnant" & "Jersey Shore", play their PS3 and Xbox 360. Shouldn't that be a clue?

There are plenty of people just coming out of college that would take that new teaching job and pay their share of the 12% in a heart beat. There are many of the unemployed that would do the teaching job and gladly pay the 12%. This has nothing to do with students it has to do with greed and entitlement.

Yes. Your greed.
College students are naturally hungry to take any kind of job. They seek out higher education and accumulate so much excess debt because they're told by society that without a college degree they have very little chance to get a good paying job. However, they don't have the actual work experience compared to teachers that have been in the workforce for a long period of time. There are many people who have college degrees that cannot properly deal with the reality of the work environment they spent years in school studying about. It would be really foolish of us to start cutting back on those who do have the experience just to create a lower paying job for someone else desperate for a job to take.

Besides, the older one you just booted would just have to "find a new job" as you so eloquently put it. But since most places will forego hiring older people to go for younger ones due to issues surrounding health and work longevity, they get placed in a job environment where just "finding a new job" that allows them to maintain their luxurious, $44K/year lifestyle is even harder.

So the lesson for the students is we teachers could give a shit less about you and your education we teachers are ENTITLED to our benefits at the cost of your parents. Too fucking bad, real great teaching job.

Something tells me you went to a bad school because that is certainly not the message I got from mine.

Bucko for you
» BREAKING NEWS: UNEMPLOYMENT RATE HITS 22%+++ Wisconsin Unemployment Solution

http://dwd.wisconsin.gov/dwd/newsreleases/ui_local_default.pdf

the numbers do vary but if you take them as an average the unemployment would be greater than 12%.

Did you actually read the PDF you linked to instead of just reading a doomsday headline from a personal blog? The actual document that is from the government ALSO says that at the end of 2010 the state's unemployment rate was roughly 7%. Also with the bottom chart that shows the unemployment rates based on county, since none of them are in the double digits for 2010 there's no way they could average out to 12%. That is, unless you want to suggest that somewhere in the last 2-3 months Wisconsin has went completely down the crapper. And if that's your claim, then I'll join BBucko and say, "Really? Got a link for that?"

 

[nudeyorker]

I don't have much to add to this conversation except I used to be a teacher. I worked in a wonderful school with every budget advantage a supportive administration, engaged students and parents and tuition reimbursement for my masters degree. I was a wonderful teacher so I'm told but just did not have the degree of dedication to continue.

I know people who have been dedicated educators and administrators who deal with budget cuts and augment the necessary supplies needed by supplying them without reimbursement. They deal with dysfunctional bureaucratic politically fueled administrations and apathetic parents. These people are my heros that they can prevail in spite of all this.

I don't believe the government should have any influence on the unions of public sector workers if they are teachers,firemen and policeman. I think any politician who feels so should be required to work in any of these professions for a minimum of a year.

 

[B_Alt33]

I need to get a tissue after reading your post Vinyl it was touching. Now back to reality what program do you want to cut welfare, social security, climate change, how about all these stupid studies on the wild hermit mouse living is south africa, medicare, military what do you want to cut.

But again I ask what part of BROKE do you not understand. And so keep the teachers salary on the backs of all others. Your political philosophy is based way to much on feelings. There is no place for feelings in politics. So get over it and tell your liberal friends the same this country wanted change and now we are finally getting some. Politicians like Chris Chistie are breath of fresh air. Finally someone who does not care about making people feel good he would rather tell you the truth. Step back into reality and understand this country is BROKE.

 

[B_Inthehouse]

Benefits or salary. Sometimes you can't have all of both.

Especially when the wealthy demand a profit margin from everything on Earth. There is nothing they don't think they are entitled to own.

 

[B_Alt33]

If they can afford it they can purchase it. Don't be a jealous cry baby. You want to be rich them them work for it sacrifice your family, health, friends and be ready to make the real hard decisions that will impact others. Most wealthy people were not born into wealth they earned every penny and they have the purchasing power to buy what they want.

 

[Bbucko]

Finding another job is not my problem what is my problem is paying into an education system that has failed our students and this country. Avg. teacher salary in NY is about $44k that does not include the free health care, pension and retirement. Other people making $44k in the private sector pay their own health care, pension and retirement and pay the taxes for the teachers. So where is the issue that a teacher now should pay some of their own way.

The students have no idea why they are there just check Youtube. They look at this as a day off. There are plenty of people just coming out of college that would take that new teaching job and pay their share of the 12% in a heart beat. There are many of the unemployed that would do the teaching job and gladly pay the 12%. This has nothing to do with students it has to do with greed and entitlement. So the lesson for the students is we teachers could give a shit less about you and your education we teachers are ENTITLED to our benefits at the cost of your parents. Too fucking bad, real great teaching job.

Bucko for you
» BREAKING NEWS: UNEMPLOYMENT RATE HITS 22%+++ Wisconsin Unemployment Solution

http://dwd.wisconsin.gov/dwd/newsreleases/ui_local_default.pdf

the numbers do vary but if you take them as an average the unemployment would be greater than 12%.

As VB has already pointed out, the PDF in your links shows unemployment down in WI as compared to '09, at 7.6% (seasonally adjusted) for December. That's lower than the national rate of 9.8%. Both figures are shameful, but nowhere near 20% (or the 22%+++ purported in your posted video).

Speaking of that video: the blog that you link to quotes a YouTube video without having properly having embedded it. For shits and giggles, I found the vid in question here. It's the incoherent rant of a paranoid crazy guy in Arizona: a Millennialist Doomsday-preaching gold-hoarding loon. He's a Federalist in favor of State's Rights in AZ (but not in Massachusetts, oddly), and a trade protectionist who blames Bill Clinton for undermining the country's manufacturing base...wow: nothing about the Bilderbergs or the Trilateral Commission?

You really stand behind that video as proof of anything? Your exhortation that we assess student accomplishment and enthusiasm by "just check[ing] Youtube [sic]" in light of the farce you've posted is hysterical, if only for the motherload of irony :wink:

And though I understand that you want to make this all about teachers, this union-busting is also about our first responders who, just ten years ago, were lauded as heroes; now they're greedy, scum-sucking trough-feeders? Really?

One last thing: please link something that describes the "free" health care for teachers in NY in detail. I'd bet a weekend-night's tips (usually about $150) that their health care includes co-pays and deductibles if not any actual personal contribution (which I still doubt). The kind of package you're describing is CEO-level, not civil-servant level.

I'm reminded of a bumper sticker I used to see all the time that said "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance", but that was in Boston (where I was raised), not SoFla

 

[Matthew]

Most wealthy people were not born into wealth they earned every penny

Actually, I believe the exact opposite to be true: the hardest-working people I've known have been the poorest - janitors and room cleaners working several jobs, for example - while most of the wealthy people I know were born into wealth, and live a life of relative ease.

On Wisconsin! Proud to be a cheesehead tonight. It's about time people in the US rise up in huge numbers against the lie that middle class workers caused these economic crises.

 

[MNGuy]

These teachers are a bunch or CRY BABIES. Wisconsin has unemployment of 20% if not greater as reported by the Huffington Post. As the unemployed people if they would take a 10% pay cut just so see a pay check again. The teachers and their unions are the ones destroying the educational system in country. I live in a county in upstate NY where we pay about $12k per student per year to get a 50% drop out rate. These teachers are spoiled brats that aren't willing to sacrifice anything for the education of the youth in this country.

Wisconsin needs Chris Christie to teach them a lesson. If you don't like the pay get a new job.

Today it is SO easy to scapegoat another group of people in America who really do the complete OPPOSITE of what you naively think is destroying this country. Do you have any idea what teaching in public schools is like? I'm sure you don't. Try volunteering in a school before you sling mud at THE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE PROFESSION OF RAISING THE FUTURE OF THE WORLD, by CHOICE. Do you really believe that all teachers are a bunch of liberals who want to push gay marriage, evolution, or some other "sick anti-God" ngenda?? You have NO IDEA. I am SO sick of people like you who have NO CLUE as to what things are like in public schools. Let me guess where you get your information from...hmm...Glenn Beck (who says uttering the WORD "prayer" in schools is ILLEGAL) or Bill O'Reilly, who is the most close minded hostile windbag to hit the airwaves? Or are you someone who will just bitch about where "YOUR" tax dollars are going while being completely ignorant of the BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of dollars that go to corporate welfare and the perpetual war machine.

Yes, unions, like any other organisation on this planet have a lot of power and have an agenda. WHO DOESN'T?? Of COURSE they have their own best interest in mind. WHO DOESN'T?? If we didn't have unions our country would be a whole hell of a lot worse off than it is now. Unions are one of the few people powered forces that have made this country what it is.

So if you want to criticise one of the few noble professions left in this world, and destroy teachers and public schools. WATCH how much worse things will get. You will only have yourself to blame.

 

[B_24065]

Yes, all this protesting is due to the fact that the Governor of Wisconsin is proposing that federal workers need to contribute, are you ready for this?, a whopping 5.8% of their salary to their pension! As of now, SEIU members contribute ZERO to their pension and healthcare. It is 100% taxpayer funded. Again, liberals are all about spending money on entitlements as long as its someone elses.

 

[B_Inthehouse]

^Yes, pay it out of their current take home pay. It's a 5.8% pay cut, unless they want to screw their own retirement.

 

[midlifebear]

Alt33 has been one of two people on my ignore list for the last three weeks. Obviously, with the suggestion of the moderators, it really has been the best way to deal with his incessant stupidity. This is just a bit of advice I thought I like to share. :smile:

No doubt one of his next misinformed rants will be on the evils of collective bargaining.

 

[B_Alt33]

My gosh i have never heard a bigger bunch of cry babies. Please just show me where higher pay for teachers results in a better more educated society. Please just some me and don't give me some BS so some statistics.

Again I ask WHAT PART OF BROKE DO YOU PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND. THERE IS NO MORE MONEY. If I was Governor of the Wisconsin I would file for bankruptcy fire all the teachers and force them to be rehired under a new contract. I guarantee that 90% of those protesting teachers would be back under the new agreement.

Proof is Rode Island.

 

[helgaleena]

The crux of the protest is that he wants to bust the unions and make all state workers, not just teachers, unable to be union members. Bucky doesn't bust unions.

And state workers in WI make 20% less than private sector workers already. I know. I have been one.

So proud not to have voted for this clown. At least they are not cutting WI internets, like they did in Algeria and Bahrain.