The Revolution Continues... in Wisconsin?

helgaleena

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Yes, all this protesting is due to the fact that the Governor of Wisconsin is proposing that federal workers need to contribute, are you ready for this?, a whopping 5.8% of their salary to their pension! As of now, SEIU members contribute ZERO to their pension and healthcare. It is 100% taxpayer funded. Again, liberals are all about spending money on entitlements as long as its someone elses.

State workers are not federal workers. You are talking nonsense.
 

B_VinylBoy

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My gosh i have never heard a bigger bunch of cry babies. Please just show me where higher pay for teachers results in a better more educated society. Please just some me and don't give me some BS so some statistics.

Again I ask WHAT PART OF BROKE DO YOU PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND. THERE IS NO MORE MONEY. If I was Governor of the Wisconsin I would file for bankruptcy fire all the teachers and force them to be rehired under a new contract. I guarantee that 90% of those protesting teachers would be back under the new agreement.

We've tried folks. We've tried logic, we've tried facts and even when we bring the horse to water Alt33 would rather drink the tub of nitro glycerine instead. That's nobody's fault but his own.

He doesn't even understand that although the country is supposed to be "broke", neither party (or any politician within) has a solution or a budget that completely does away with all spending across the board. To do that means shutting down all infrastructure and inner workings of a country, which include everyday things we take for granted like the police & fire departments and that simply cannot happen in a civilized society. Despite having a debt in the trillions, they only seem to be talking about cuts that are going to slash spending by the billions. In other words, despite being broke as so many ideological drones banter about, there's still some spending going on.

The real issue is where these budget cuts come from. Many fools believe that we should be looking at entitlement programs as if they're handouts or people leeching off government... when in reality that is what our government OWES American workers and they are obligated to be paid for it. Whenever a person earns a regular paycheck, taxes are immediately taken out from them to pay for things like Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. They have invested into these things whether they wanted them or not, some for over many decades. When we have overly bloated parts of our budget such as DEFENSE SPENDING, which has gone you from $300 Billion to $700 Billion over the last decade or so, it's obvious where the cuts should be coming from. Even at their best day, Republicans say that they want to cut $100 Billion from the budget. If they're true to their word, government can do this by ending the wars (and eliminate funding to organizations like Blackwater and Haliburton) and not picking on regular people who make $44K/year with benefits.

I swear... some of our new members have no damn clue. They'd be willing to chop off their own noses if the GOP told them that Obama farted. :rolleyes:
 

NYCdude

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The protest is about breaking unions, not the paycut. If you break unions, the teachers will lose their say in negotiations.

The bottom line is we just gave a tax cut to the top 1-2% of the nation, and now we're going to cut science, education, and jobs for people that make less than $50k. That's basically it. One of the biggest moves for the deficit would be to restructure the tax code, wherein someone making in excess of $100 million can pay a much higher percentage than someone making $300k per year. Taxes are at an all time low, we need to raise them.

But this debate is all apart of the Conservative movement's wish to return to the 19th Century. They want to slowly do the following: take away Women's Rights - both in reproductive healthcare and in rhetoric, break labor unions and completely rederegulate the economy, one of those Paul nuts wants to allow companies to discriminate again if they want to, the South wants to honor a brutal War Criminal and member/leader of the KKK - not to mention the South is really stepping up the Civil War wasn't about Slavery argument. Oh and they don't buy Science.

I could go on and on, but to paraphrase Malcolm X - if you ask them for it, they control what they give and how they give it, and they'll immediately look to take it back..."it" being any of these progressions.
 

B_Alt33

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WOW NYC Dude and VB you are both either living in a shell or just don't want to face the real position this country is in. Yes entitlements need to be changed. Take welfare if you have no money and 2 kids then go have 2 more and still have no money why in the hell should I as a tax payer provide you anything. It was a choice they made.

By the way we as American's are NOT ENTITLED TO ANYTHING GET THAT STRAIGHT. You are not entitled to my earning and likewise. As far as the tax credits that same 1-2% pays more than 70% of the taxes want to dispute that check the government pages online sure you find that interesting. Not to mention where does a majority of hospital expansions, additional school funding etc come from. Oh ya those dam rich people that donate money. When was the last time you got a job from a poor person.

Again quit the BS and bleeding heart if you have so much extra money then donate it make yourself feel better and leave those that don't alone.
 

B_VinylBoy

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By the way we as American's are NOT ENTITLED TO ANYTHING GET THAT STRAIGHT. You are not entitled to my earning and likewise.

You clearly don't understand entitlement programs.
ALL taxpayers contribute to them. What an individual gets from an entitlement program is based on what they put into the system and has nothing to do with what you earn. Nobody gives two shits what you earn. Your paycheck is of no concern to me.

Congratulations!! After several days of chit chat I have officially concluded that you're an idiot. Welcome to my ignore list.
 
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B_Alt33

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Welfare, food stamps and unemployment (to a certain extent) DO NOT take into account what you so called put into them. It is a blank check (so to speak). But you made a valid point tax payers do contribute to them we just don't have the power to control how the money is spent. Interesting its like me giving VB $100k letting him do what he wants and when I try to get it back he says I spent it "sorry".
 

nudeyorker

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Alt33 I think people are listening to what you are saying; unfortunately much of it is not relevant to this thread. I'm not saying it's not relevant in general but perhaps to many other threads and debates regarding the economy in this forum.

My take on this discussion was; breaking the teachers union. That's why my only comments thus far here have been my opinion on that.

Sometimes it's difficult for everyone in these debates when the facts for one issue distort the discussion at hand.
 

B_Alt33

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Breaking the union is what needs to be done. Why is there no choice in weather or not those teachers join the union? Even if they don't want to be part of the union they are forced to pay dues? Why how does that help students or education?
 

nudeyorker

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I'm not convinced breaking the Union is a necessary step for progress for either side, but maybe blowing the whole system up and starting over has some theoretical merit . . . I can sit on the fence and see both sides of the problem, but as a former teacher breaking the union is not going to be the answer; building a new union with more integrity and checks and balances may be the best answer.
 

TomCat84

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I need to get a tissue after reading your post Vinyl it was touching. Now back to reality what program do you want to cut welfare, social security, climate change, how about all these stupid studies on the wild hermit mouse living is south africa, medicare, military what do you want to cut.

But again I ask what part of BROKE do you not understand. And so keep the teachers salary on the backs of all others. Your political philosophy is based way to much on feelings. There is no place for feelings in politics. So get over it and tell your liberal friends the same this country wanted change and now we are finally getting some. Politicians like Chris Chistie are breath of fresh air. Finally someone who does not care about making people feel good he would rather tell you the truth. Step back into reality and understand this country is BROKE.

You fool. Instead of pushing to close corporate tax loopholes, sweetheart agricultural subsidies for Big Agra, etc, the right has been blaming the $40K/yr teacher and civil servant. They have pitted private sector worker bees against public sector workers. They raise the defense budget, keep taxes for the rich low, at the same time as they cry poor and try to cut the social safety net. They get their minions onto the SCOTUS, and allow unlimited corporate donations, and you think lard asses like Christie are a breath of fresh air? Him and his ilk are using their state's budget deficits as an excuse to break unions, giving corporate America even more power. This is sickening to watch.
 

B_24065

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Do you idiots understand that corporate taxes do two devastating things to our economy. One, they raise the cost of doing business which in turn drives companies over seas. And two, corporate taxes get passed down to the consumer in higher product and services prices.

Corporate Taxes = Higher prices and less job creation.
 

D_Sir Fitzwilly Wankheimer III

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"If you don't like the pay get a new job."
How simple and easy! But in a state that has 20% unemployment, what job are they supposed to get? And keep in mind, "I don't know" is not a valid answer. :rolleyes:

Also, consider that many of the high school students are also in the crowds supporting the teachers. Next to parents, they're one of the most critical pieces of a child's development. The argument for better education standards & funding has been around for a long time and the solution is obvious. It's not about throwing money at random at the situation, it's about improving its infrastructure. Updated textbooks, curriculum, facilities, providing a safe neighborhood and atmosphere for learning... inspiring & rewarding teachers who work their asses off to make sure your kids know how to spell to do better. That isn't done by just giving someone a pat on the back and a blue ribbon that says "Teacher of the Year".

Education is one of the very last things any government should be touching to look for ways to trim a budget. BTW, if you did look up the Unemployment Rate for Wisconsin, you'd see that it's really 7%... not the 20% you just touted. More proof that we shouldn't be proposing any cuts in education anywhere in this country.


there not jut teachers protesting they are all state employees. the state has no no money and union folks are fat. we've spent a ton on education and it the drop out rate is worse. money is not the answer.
 

B_VinylBoy

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there not jut teachers protesting they are all state employees.

That was clearly noted in the OP. The focus shifted towards teachers specifically when Alt33 provided an example using the projected salary of one.

the state has no no money and union folks are fat.

The state does have money, just not enough to sustain the current infrastructure they have. And instead of focusing on the industries & programs that are really unnecessary, they want to focus on people who make lower middle class salaries in something like Education which is essential to a person's emotional & cognitive development.

we've spent a ton on education and it the drop out rate is worse. money is not the answer.

Money in the right areas is the answer... and in the very post of mine that you've quoted, I listed some key examples - Updated textbooks, curriculum, facilities, providing a safe neighborhood and atmosphere for learning... inspiring & rewarding teachers who work their asses off to make sure your kids know how to spell to do better. I could go on, but I think most people get the gist of what I'm saying.
 

Industrialsize

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Here's an interesting item. There is NO fiscal emergency in Wisconsin and any budget shortfall was caused by the Governor's own NEW SPENDING:
Furthermore, this broadside comes less than a month after the state's fiscal bureau -- the Wisconsin equivalent of the Congressional Budget Office -- concluded that Wisconsin isn't even in need of austerity measures, and could conclude the fiscal year with a surplus. In fact, they say that the current budget shortfall is a direct result of tax cut policies Walker enacted in his first days in office.
"Walker was not forced into a budget repair bill by circumstances beyond he control," says Jack Norman, research director at the Institute for Wisconsin Future -- a public interest think tank. "He wanted a budget repair bill and forced it by pushing through tax cuts... so he could rush through these other changes."
"The state of Wisconsin has not reached the point at which austerity measures are needed," Norman adds.
In a Wednesday op-ed, the Capitol Times of Madison picked up on this theme.
In its Jan. 31 memo to legislators on the condition of the state's budget, the Fiscal Bureau determined that the state will end the year with a balance of $121.4 million. To the extent that there is an imbalance -- Walker claims there is a $137 million deficit -- it is not because of a drop in revenues or increases in the cost of state employee contracts, benefits or pensions. It is because Walker and his allies pushed through $140 million in new spending for special-interest groups in January.


Wisconsin Gov. Walker Ginned Up Budget Shortfall To Undercut Worker Rights | TPMDC

Looks like the Gov had a plan to bust the Unions all along.

 

B_Alt33

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$3 billion dollar budget shortfall in the state of Wisconsin please read the press or listen to the Governor himself. Everything needs to be cut including the number of state employees pensions. It is just plain and simple there is no money to support the pensions.
 

Industrialsize

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$3 billion dollar budget shortfall in the state of Wisconsin please read the press or listen to the Governor himself. Everything needs to be cut including the number of state employees pensions. It is just plain and simple there is no money to support the pensions.
More from "The Press":
But Gov. Scott Walker is not making tough choices. He is making political choices, and they are designed not to balance budgets but to improve his political position and that of his party.
It is for this reason that the governor claims Wisconsin is in such deep financial trouble that Wisconsinites should view this as a crisis moment.
In fact, like just about every other state in the country, Wisconsin is managing in a weak economy. The difference is that Wisconsin is managing better -- or at least it had been managing better until Walker took over. Despite shortfalls in revenue following the economic downturn that hit its peak with the Bush-era stock market collapse, the state has balanced budgets, maintained basic services and high-quality schools, and kept employment and business development steadier than the rest of the country. It has managed so well, in fact, that the nonpartisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau recently released a memo detailing how the state will end the 2009-2011 budget biennium with a budget surplus.



Walker gins up
 

helgaleena

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Here's an interesting item. There is NO fiscal emergency in Wisconsin and any budget shortfall was caused by the Governor's own NEW SPENDING:
Furthermore, this broadside comes less than a month after the state's fiscal bureau -- the Wisconsin equivalent of the Congressional Budget Office -- concluded that Wisconsin isn't even in need of austerity measures, and could conclude the fiscal year with a surplus. In fact, they say that the current budget shortfall is a direct result of tax cut policies Walker enacted in his first days in office.
"Walker was not forced into a budget repair bill by circumstances beyond he control," says Jack Norman, research director at the Institute for Wisconsin Future -- a public interest think tank. "He wanted a budget repair bill and forced it by pushing through tax cuts... so he could rush through these other changes."
"The state of Wisconsin has not reached the point at which austerity measures are needed," Norman adds.
In a Wednesday op-ed, the Capitol Times of Madison picked up on this theme.
In its Jan. 31 memo to legislators on the condition of the state's budget, the Fiscal Bureau determined that the state will end the year with a balance of $121.4 million. To the extent that there is an imbalance -- Walker claims there is a $137 million deficit -- it is not because of a drop in revenues or increases in the cost of state employee contracts, benefits or pensions. It is because Walker and his allies pushed through $140 million in new spending for special-interest groups in January.


Wisconsin Gov. Walker Ginned Up Budget Shortfall To Undercut Worker Rights | TPMDC

Looks like the Gov had a plan to bust the Unions all along.

Alt33, these are the facts. Any budget shortfall was created by Walker, not his predecessor. You are not even in WI. You want us to know the facts, and you do not know them yourself. Kindly stfu.
 

maxcok

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My gosh i have never heard a bigger bunch of cry babies. Please just show me where higher pay for teachers results in a better more educated society. Please just some me and don't give me some BS so some statistics.

Again I ask WHAT PART OF BROKE DO YOU PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND. THERE IS NO MORE MONEY. If I was Governor of the Wisconsin I would file for bankruptcy fire all the teachers and force them to be rehired under a new contract. I guarantee that 90% of those protesting teachers would be back under the new agreement.

Proof is Rode Island.

My gosh, I have never heard a bigger bunch of crybabies. Please just show me where higher pay for teachers results in a better, more educated society. Please just some me and don't give me some BS so some statistics. [ ??:confused13:?? wtf??? ]

Again I ask, WHAT PART OF BROKE DO YOU PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND? THERE IS NO MORE MONEY. If I were Governor of [the] Wisconsin I would file for bankruptcy, fire all the teachers, and force them to be rehired under a new contract. I guarantee that 90% of those protesting teachers would be back under the new agreement.

Proof is Rhode Island.
Just out of curiosity, what do you think might have helped you in your education?