The richest 1 percent have more financial wealth than the bottom 95 percent combined

Discussion in 'Politics' started by D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, Oct 5, 2009.

  1. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,539
    Likes Received:
    1
    I've already posted on this subject elsewhere, so please forgive me, but the topic has really grabbed my attention... and I've just not worked it out of my system yet.

    Perhaps some of you know a bright side, a "silver lining" to this data that I've not thought of.


    Michael Moore makes a claim in his new documentary that the "top 1 percent owns more financial wealth than the bottom 95 percent"


    ^^^^ and the 2009 Pulitzer Prize-winning PolitiFact gave this statement a "Mostly True" rating.

    PolitiFact | Michael Moore movie says that top 1 percent owns more financial wealth than bottom 95 percent


    (There are six categories:
    TRUE – The statement is accurate and there’s nothing significant missing.
    MOSTLY TRUE – The statement is accurate but needs clarification or additional information.
    HALF TRUE – The statement is accurate but leaves out important details or takes things out of context.
    BARELY TRUE – The statement contains some element of truth but ignores critical facts that would give a different impression.
    FALSE – The statement is not accurate.
    PANTS ON FIRE – The statement is not accurate and makes a ridiculous claim.)


    We all know the names -- that seem to be able to manipulate our political system to their end, no matter which party is in power....

    Citigroup. ExxonMobil. Pfizer. ConocoPhillips. GlaxoSmithKline. JPMorgan Chase & Co. Shell/Royal Dutch Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. ING Group Dow Chemical McDonalds Procter & Gamble Capital One KPMG Novartis Chevron The Coca-Cola Company UBS Halliburton Virgin Group. Johnson & Johnson. The Walt Disney Company. American Express. Boeing.

    etc etc etc etc


    We no longer live in the age of Mom and Pop shop capitalism. This is Corporate Capitalism. A socialistic approach of breaking up some of that 1% wealth -- and re-distributing it among the lower 95% is now in order I think.


    Here's another website. The numbers cited here seem to corroborate Michael Moore's as well, and, god, are they depressing.

    Economic Inequality in the United States



    A New York Times headline claimed that:

    Top 1% Paid More in Federal Income Taxes Than Bottom 95% in '07

    and I find this data only seems to back up the thread topic

    by the way, this "the super-rich pay 40% in federal taxes" line is a favorite of Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck. They seem to prefer not to phrase it the other way round: "the richest 1 percent have more financial wealth than the bottom 95 percent combined".

    (if I were in that top elite 1% club, I shouldn't mind paying 40% in federal taxes either. I already pay over 25%)

    Top 1% Paid More in Federal Income Taxes Than Bottom 95% in ‘07 - Economix Blog - NYTimes.com



    I am not here to write a simple polemic on the evils of our current capitalist system (I think I've done that elsewhere). I am here to try to honestly figure the damned thing out -- and if this system is really a just and equitable one.
     
    #1 D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse, Oct 5, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2009
  2. Qua

    Qua
    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,507
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    This, or some figure like it, has been the case for a long time I believe. Not some recent development.
     
  3. bigbull29

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    5,735
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    2,420
    Gender:
    Male
    Thanks for posting this. I think it was great, but it's not anything I don't know already. It's a horrible shame, but what are you going to do about it?
     
  4. mynameisnobody

    mynameisnobody New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    CT, USA
    Yes indeed, Michael Moore is perfectly free to make potloads of money.

    So are you, and so is anyone else.

    You seem to have some problem with this.
     
  5. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2008
    Messages:
    4,706
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Rugby, England
    Ban Interest Rates, they are the creation of greedy men not generous ones.

    Where is the altruism eh?
     
  6. dude252007

    dude252007 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2007
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    1
    My neighbor has many things I do not have and we both work. He has a better job than me. Maybe I should go over there and "redistribute" his wealth.
     
    #6 dude252007, Oct 5, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2009
  7. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2008
    Messages:
    4,706
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Rugby, England
    This is'nt true.

    If a person has a bad start in life and misses a good education they are limited to what they can do.

    On a minimum wage you can earn enough to 'get by'.

    Furthering your education costs money which is hard to scrape together when you have so little.

    The sad fact is that most people are in a constant cycle of trying to make ends meet and have so much financial stress weighing them down that the motivation to go back to school after you've worked a labour intensive shift is rarely existent because you need to rest or have kids to look after.

    If you are born into prosperity you are unlikely to ever have financial worries and if you are born into poverty you are unlikely to escape from it. Only rare exceptions exist.
     
  8. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,539
    Likes Received:
    1
    dude252007 writes:

    My neighbor has many things I do not have and we both work. He has a better job than me. Maybe I should go over there and "redistribute" his wealth.

    --------------------


    Please, let's not fall into the trap of "redistributing" your neighbor's wealth, the guy who makes perhaps $100,000 a year.

    Nobody's talking about him.

    We're talking about the CEO who owns 5 billion dollars of financial wealth... and redistributing some of that wealth back into the country's infrastructure and to the have-nots in the form of a healthcare system... I know, I know. SO Marxist! So unreasonable. That CEO can survive on just one billion, I'll bet.
     
  9. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Messages:
    10,516
    Likes Received:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Boston, MA / New York, NY
    You should have re-edited your post not just for spelling, but for repeating one of the most tired Conservative talking points ever known on the subject matter.

    Making our economy more efficient so that more people have the ability to make money is not a bad thing. Because let's be honest... neither you OR your neighbor are part of the top 1%. So why even drone the rhetoric of the greedy who thinks their lives are going to crumble if they don't receive MORE tax cuts than they've already got? When did you wake up and think that you had more in common with the "rich elite" than your actual neighbor?

    Really? Somehow, you find similarities in the way Michael Moore makes his money compared to the way most Bank, Insurance & Corporate CEOs do it? BTW, when you answer this do yourself a favor and not say that they both "work hard". Because we all do.

    Stop staring at the dollar symbols and pay attention to the details.
     
    #9 B_VinylBoy, Oct 5, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2009
  10. TurkeyWithaSunburn

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Messages:
    3,543
    Albums:
    5
    Likes Received:
    252
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Denver, Colorado
    If the USA were a Christian nation there wouldn't be usury, interest.

    Bible Topics: Usury or Interest

    Are there any bible verses against lending/loaning money? | Answerbag

    There was a time when Christians didn't lend money for fear of going to Hell. There was a religious group that could or did, the Jews. Maybe that's why to this day "Jewish banker" features prominently in the far fringe thinking of some people.
    Ascent of Money | Watch online for free | documentary-log.com
    Part one, about 19:00-22:00 minutes into it.

    Today the USA has a greater wealth disparity than Brazil.
    Brazil's Elites Fly Above Their Fears (washingtonpost.com)
    Yes the article is from 2002 there are more recent documents that show largely the same thing. Anywhere from top 1% to top 10% control 50 percent of the wealth in the country.

    And yet people still wonder why most Americans feel like the USA is going to Hell in a handbag.
     
  11. Gl3nn

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,457
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Somewhere in the universe
    While I do understand your concern, I don't think they should redistribute the wealth that people have earned. They worked for it, and yes...other people who get way less money may work harder than them... but that's life.

    If you were in the top 1% you wouldn't want your money to be taken away either. You know that as well.


    I do understand where you're coming from, but I'm getting tired of this 'us against the rich'.
     
  12. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2008
    Messages:
    4,706
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Rugby, England
    Interest is not EARNED money, it is paid for by banks who reap the cash from the less well off in bank charges and interest on loans which the rich don't generally need. Result....the poor finance the rich.
     
  13. Industrialsize

    Staff Member Moderator Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2006
    Messages:
    24,295
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    2,168
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    United States
    I would venture to guess that a majority of the top 1% did nothing to "earn" their wealth other than being fortunate enough to be born into a wealthy family.
     
  14. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2008
    Messages:
    4,706
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Rugby, England
    :You_Rock_Emoticon:

    I bet you're right.
     
  15. sargon20

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    11,385
    Likes Received:
    2,123
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Atlantis
    I LOVE it :smile:. America likes to think of itself as a 'Christian' nation but it cherry picks it's way through the Bible. Of course those profiting from religion do NOT want these passages from the Bible mentioned.

    Most have not heard of the Christian Jubilee. And no wonder, it talks about forgiveness and debt relief. This is not something the Masters of the Universe that run the country are interested in pushing in their so called 'Think Tanks'. So we have a political party and a movement that frames itself as the people of God while passing bankruptcy laws that make it harder for people to get out of debt.
     
  16. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    11,912
    Likes Received:
    44
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    New York City, by way of Marblehead, Boston and Ge
    Whenever I find money an issue, as Will knows, I take my credit card out of my sporran and I charge it. Problem solved, right?

    PS. I can't wait to see Moore's movie.
     
  17. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,539
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gl3nn writes:

    While I do understand your concern, I don't think they should redistribute the wealth that people have earned. They worked for it, and yes...other people who get way less money may work harder than them... but that's life.

    --------------------


    If the gap between rich and middle class/poor became so great over the years that the United States was in danger of becoming a third-world country, would people still say "Well, the rich earned it, hey that's life!"?

    If, like in some South American countries, the top 1% can extract almost ALL the wealth out of the vast bottom, is this just like a game of Monopoly where one person "wins" -- and it's therefore OK if the rest starve and grovel? Because they "lost" the capitalistic game?

    ****

    You all know I'm an atheist. A good-hearted atheist, I'd like to think, but still an atheist.


    Yet some of christians here, who are supposed to be about "charity", have been duped into believing that it's OK to play a game of Monopoly with the economic system so that the top 1% owns damned near everything. And THEN these christians will vigorously defend breaking up the CEO's wealth, that guy who owns 5 billion dollars of financial wealth, to help pay for the poor's healthcare.

    If we were to target the guys who own 5 billion dollars or more -- and we took (yes, "stole") their money to pay for the poor's healthcare and the country's infrastructure, isn't this a more christian ideal than the Monopoly game (we'll still leave that CEO at least one billion dollars to live on)?


    Christians in the Middle Ages adored the Robin Hood stories.
     
  18. Gl3nn

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,457
    Likes Received:
    2
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Somewhere in the universe
    I'm atheist as well and I'm not complaining.

    It's a controversial subject and we all have our own opinion. And I do respect yours, I really do. I just fail to agree.
     
  19. D_Ireonsyd_Colonrinse

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,539
    Likes Received:
    1
    Nick8: Anybody who has to use a credit card to buy that "wonderful black truffle-stuffed brie that I can only find at Garden of Eden" --- in fact, anybody who has to use a CREDIT CARD period, and maintains any card debt and pays interest, would be considered part of the proletariat for the new Revolution.
     
  20. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    11,912
    Likes Received:
    44
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    New York City, by way of Marblehead, Boston and Ge
    Leave it to you to remember where I get it, you arriviste snob.

    You need to come to New York to set me straight, and soon.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted