The risk of fascism in America

Discussion in 'Politics' started by D_Davy_Downspout, Apr 15, 2010.

  1. D_Davy_Downspout

    D_Davy_Downspout Account Disabled

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  2. unabear09

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    Sadly, it is a very true article....the left and the right are so dead set against each other that nothing is getting done, and the lunitic fringes on both sides are gaining more and more in popularity. I truely fear for the future of our country...Not because I'm a democrat or republican, but because there is no center any more. No longer does one side get along with the other. The greater good of the people is lost because of petty differences and stubborness...by everyone involved
     
  3. Levi

    Levi New Member

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    Why is what he says unpopular?
    Anyone with an ounce of sense has known this for years, America is deeply fucked politicaly mainly because you have a lot of very angry right wing lunatics free to shout whatever they will protected by the freedom of speech and a lot of very deeply strange religious fundamnmentalists who are also free to shout whatever pops into their heads when they forget to take their pills.
    Most of these people if they tried the sort of tricks they get upto in the US would find themselves arrested in any european country.
    You really don't need Chomsky to tell you this surely?

    Also

    George Orwell wrote in 1944 that "the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless ... almost any English person would accept ‘bully’ as a synonym for ‘Fascist’". Richard Griffiths argued in 2005 that "fascism" is the "most misused, and over-used word, of our times". "Fascist" is sometimes applied to post-war organisations and ways of thinking that academics more commonly term neo-fascist

    Most extreme right wing groups in the US hesitate to be associated with or openly support the small number of openly fascist or neo-nazi groups in the US, however their ideologies do overlap significantly.

    The First Amendment to the United States Constitution guarantees freedom of speech, which allows political organizations great latitude in expressing Nazi, racist, and anti-Semitic views. A First Amendment landmark was the "Skokie Affair", in which neo-Nazis threatened to march in a predominantly Jewish suburb of Chicago. The march never took place in Skokie, but the court ruling allowed the neo-Nazis to stage a series of demonstrations in the Chicago area. In addition to targeting Jews and African Americans, neo-Nazi groups are known to harass and attack Asian Americans, Latinos, Arab Americans, Native Americans, homosexuals, Catholics, and people with different political or religious opinions. American neo-Nazi groups often operate websites, occasionally stage public demonstrations, and maintain ties to groups in Europe and elsewhere
     
    #3 Levi, Apr 15, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2010
  4. Elmer Gantry

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    Fascism was defined by Mussolini as the melding of corporations with government. That would have to be the most accurate assessment I've heard.
     
  5. B_VinylBoy

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    Let's use the Dictionary meanings, shall we:
    Fascism: a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism. Fascism | Define Fascism at Dictionary.com

    In a true Fascist society, even corporations would be under complete control by government, not melded together as to suggest that they would be cooperating. Also, we wouldn't have news networks allowing Teahadists have their stages where they can voice their vehement disapproval of government and the current administration. The definition of Fascist itself, in every dictionary I've used, also make reference to a person who is dictatorial or has extreme right-wing views. That makes it very ironic when people on the right talk about Obama and label him a Fascist in the midst of their paranoidal rhetoric.
     
  6. conntom

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    “Ridiculing the tea party shenanigans is a serious error,” Chomsky said. - funny - he says not to ridicule, yet he calls the activities shenanigans. And keep in mind, he is left wing so all his opinions expressed mean he is another silly kid who in college read Thomas Moore's Utopia and thought - what a wonderful world it could be...


    The only fair comment I have read in this thread was from unabear. Fact remains and fact is the far left or far right are capable of becoming a horrible gov't no one wants. From my viewpoint - since it is the left that is pushing unwanted agendas far more than the right it is the left that is close to fascism(minus the nationalism)
     
  7. conntom

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    There is class resentment, he noted. “The bankers, who are primarily responsible for the crisis, are now reveling in record bonuses while official unemployment is around 10 percent and unemployment in the manufacturing sector is at Depression-era levels,” he said.

    And Obama is linked to the bankers, Chomsky explained.

    “The financial industry preferred Obama to McCain,”


    AND for the lefties here......What say you about that? Hell even after the HCR act passed - insurance company stocks rose!!!
     
  8. Industrialsize

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    It's currently the DEMOCRATS pushing for financial reform and tighter regulations in the face of REPUBLICAN opposition, that's what the lefties say.

    Make Our Day! Democrats Giddy Over GOP Opposition To Financial Reform

    About a week or two. That's how long Republicans have to decide how they ultimately want to play their hand on financial regulatory reform. According to numerous Democratic aides and key senators, the GOP will either have to join forces with Democrats on a bill that hews very much to the White House's demands, or they'll have to do their best to block a bill that enjoys wide popularity. But as much as Democrats want to change the rules that govern Wall Street quickly and smoothly, they also love the politics of moving the bill forward without GOP support and letting Republicans publicly justify their decision to protect hated financial institutions from the regulations they oppose.

    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...f-gop-opposition-to-financial-reform.php#more
     
    #8 Industrialsize, Apr 15, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2010
  9. tripod

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    Obama is a mainstream president who is pro business. He is nowhere near the revolutionary Che Guevara type figure that the right wing painted him to be.

    He is absolutely NOT a socialist or a communist. He's not here to upset the applecart, he is here to do his best to fix our damaged country.

    Should he round all of the bankers up to have public executions? Should he seize all of the assets of these banks and distribute them evenly throughout the economy?

    Really... what was your right wing plan to get back at the bankers? Any Republican president would have bailed them out just like Obama did. Hell, they'd just give the banks the money with no strings attached as a good will gift from the people.
     
  10. B_VinylBoy

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    What he said... :wink:
     
  11. THEDUDEofDestiny

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    The Republican party rebranded itself starting with Reagan as a populist party. There was always this element to it, of course -think William F. Buckley saying that he'd rather be governed by the first thousand names in the boston phonebook than the Harvard administration-, but it used to be focused on left leaning academics. In the last decade or so it is aimed at anything that is intellectual and anything that has to do with the coasts, cities, and people who aren't deemed "the folks". The thing is, like the hardcore christianity movement, it is a sign that those things are pasing away and that cultural conservatism is dying as a political movement. The vast majority of people aren't tea partiers, and conservatives in think tanks in washington aren't tea partiers. They might have influence in the next couple of election cycles but demographically they haven't got a chance. This country was always more diverse than Hitler's Germany or Mussolini's Italy, and it is growing more diverse by the day. There is a future for conservatism, it just isn't set yet.

    As for Chomsky, there is no question that he is a brilliant man; but he has always been marked in his political thinking by a kind of paranoia that tints everything he writes. It gives him an interesting perspective and he should be read, but don't take everything he says to heart.
     
  12. helgaleena

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    The Progressive is a great publication. That said, when it comes to fascism, that horse is out of the barn already. This is true of most nations btw...
     
  13. THEDUDEofDestiny

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    “'The level of anger and fear is like nothing I can compare in my lifetime,' [Chomsky] said.”


    I mean, come on. the guy lived through the culture clash and race riots of the 60s, the Nixon administration, McCarthyism, and a host of other time periods where the people out of power were enraged at the government. I guess since most of the time he agreed with the people out of power that was ok. I mean this is called democracy in most quarters.
     
  14. MercyfulFate

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    The risk of fascism has been high since Kennedy was killed, and it was made worse during the Bush years. The simple fact that corporations and industry control our government makes it bad enough, they have far more say in things than the people, and that's wrong.

    Look at the healthcare debacle. Lobbyists and the insurance industry got mandatory insurance stuffed in there, and they dumbed down the public option basically making the whole thing a book for the insurance industry.
     
  15. Sergeant_Torpedo

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    The bankers and businesmen who facilitated and bank rolled European fascists were never prosecuted after the end of WWII (remember Franco was a success) and indeed were the founders of the European Union. Capitalism has actually collapsed, what has replaced it is tantalizingling unsure - you take a risk, make an investment and reap the rewards of profit or failure. The new model is: the ruling elite make an investment, if it fails they are compensated and rescued by the tax paying low and middle income communities. This is state capitalism, more similar to the Chinese system - and we send our young men and women (not banker's kids) to defend and promote it!
     
  16. THEDUDEofDestiny

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    Fascism is not the same as corruption, and why is 1963 considered the baseline? Kennedy was a wealthy man with wealthy interests and an aggressive foreign policy.
     
  17. THEDUDEofDestiny

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    I'm a banker's kid and am in the army, so I take exception to this. Secondly, the EU is an example of what is probably coming in this country in the next few decades and it isn't fascism. It is simply bureaucrats making more decisions with less dependency on the people. I have news for you, it has been this way for years. Do you really think the healthcare debate you see on cable news, or as it is debated in most blogs is the same debate that takes place in Washington? This has nothing to do with a nefarious plot, it is just that information is too specialized now for people who aren't experts with years of schooling or in a given industry to understand. It is a dangerous situation to be sure, but to simply call it fascism is alarmist and inaccurate to the point that it is useless in terms of addressing/fixing the problem.
     
  18. mrpond

    mrpond New Member

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    The chinese system i would say is a fusion of state control communism ie controlling the command economy; while allowing capitalism ie capital / a number of key industries/ big financal corporations (hong kong) and the private sector access.
     
  19. justasimpleguy

    justasimpleguy Active Member

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    Fascism, totalitarianism and authoritarianism all seem to me to be different terms for more or less the same thing. It all comes down to people who believe in and will fight for an egalitarian and democratic society and people who want all the power and authority for themselves. Concentrated power vs. equality. That fight is older than sin.
     
  20. conntom

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    Frankly, no president should have bailed them out. They should be broke and their companies bought out and/or liquidated. It is a crime that Bush and Obama did this. It proves to me that to Democrats or Republicans - the people of this country are pawns.

    All that being said and how Obama is for the average and poor I find it telling about him that even a progressive like Chomsky admits the rich supported Obama. Then again - Obama and his wife made 5.5 million last year so you could say - birds of a feather stick together.
     
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