The sabotage of obamacare begins.

[phonehome]

Go back and read bud

 

[BULLDOG00]

As I stated earlier ALL things that were happening when President Obama was still an IL State Senator.

Nonsense. Premiums and deductibles skyrocketed under Obamacare. Before Obamacare affordable policies with low or no deductibles were easily obtainable except in places like Massachusetts which beta tested Obamacare. In my own case, and I've heard this from many others, my premiums doubled the first renewal after Obamacare went into effect and I went from 0 deductible to a $7500 deductible. It just got worse from there. Then the plans started going away. I don't think there was more than one year were I was allowed to stay on the same plan. If you like your plan you can keep your plan and if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor were outright lies.

You guys don't know this stuff because you only know what you read on Huffpost and Vox. You don't have any real experience. Obama said it was good, so that is what you think. Your views are not grounded in reality.

 

[BULLDOG00]

That being said, the system we had before Obamacare also sucked, but Obamacare made things worse.

 

[TexanStar]

Nonsense. Premiums and deductibles skyrocketed under Obamacare. Before Obamacare affordable policies with low or no deductibles were easily obtainable except in places like Massachusetts which beta tested Obamacare. In my own case, and I've heard this from many others, my premiums doubled the first renewal after Obamacare went into effect and I went from 0 deductible to a $7500 deductible. It just got worse from there. Then the plans started going away. I don't think there was more than one year were I was allowed to stay on the same plan. If you like your plan you can keep your plan and if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor were outright lies.

You guys don't know this stuff because you only know what you read on Huffpost and Vox. You don't have any real experience. Obama said it was good, so that is what you think. Your views are not grounded in reality.

Why do you keep quoting your crazy ass numbers as though everyone else is experiencing them. I have no idea what is wrong with you, your family, your employer, or your insurance policy, but your numbers are massively atypical and I don't understand why you think they're worth discussion.

http://time.com/money/4503325/obama-health-care-costs-obamacare/

Edit: Found a better article that compares before / after Obamacare.

"In 2008, the average employer-sponsored family plan cost a total of $12,680, with employees footing $3,354 of the bill, according to Kaiser data. By 2016, the cost of the average employer family plan was up to $18,142 for the year, with workers picking up $5,277 of the tab.

These increased costs for employers and employees alike may seem steep—up around 50% over the past eight years—but they could have risen far higher had the Affordable Care Act never passed. The Kaiser study shows that average family premiums rose 20% from 2011 to 2016. That rate of increase is actually much lower than the previous five years (up 31% from 2006 to 2011) and the five years before that (up 63% from 2001 to 2006)."

 

[TexanStar]

If you want to know why your premiums are increasing and why your deductible is increasing, you need only look here:

https://www.google.com/search?q=uni...rome..69i57.4049j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Hit "Max".

That is why your prices are increasing. Because Insurance is a for-profit industry, these are publicly traded companies, and year over year they are turning the screws on consumers in order to crank out more profit for shareholders. It's jack shit to do with the affordable care act.

It's like the whole scandal over epi-pen pricing. Wall street is using the health services industry as a cash cow, buying up privately held companies and jacking up the prices on everything.... equipment, medicines, etc.

 

[BULLDOG00]

If you want to know why your premiums are increasing and why your deductible is increasing, you need only look here:

https://www.google.com/search?q=uni...rome..69i57.4049j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Hit "Max".

That is why your prices are increasing. Because Insurance is a for-profit industry, these are publicly traded companies, and year over year they are turning the screws on consumers in order to crank out more profit for shareholders. It's jack shit to do with the affordable care act.

It's like the whole scandal over epi-pen pricing. Wall street is using the health services industry as a cash cow, buying up privately held companies and jacking up the prices on everything.... equipment, medicines, etc.

My numbers are not atypical, they are straight off the Obamascam exchange website for healthy mid-30s people. Ask people with real life experience and they will tell you the same. Obamacare was designed by the insurance companies. Of course they make more profit.

Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump 4h4 hours ago
Republican Senators are working very hard to get there, with no help from the Democrats. Not easy! Perhaps just let OCare crash & burn!

 

[deleted15807]

If you want to know why your premiums are increasing and why your deductible is increasing, you need only look here:

https://www.google.com/search?q=uni...rome..69i57.4049j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Hit "Max".

That is why your prices are increasing. Because Insurance is a for-profit industry, these are publicly traded companies, and year over year they are turning the screws on consumers in order to crank out more profit for shareholders. It's jack shit to do with the affordable care act.

It's like the whole scandal over epi-pen pricing. Wall street is using the health services industry as a cash cow, buying up privately held companies and jacking up the prices on everything.... equipment, medicines, etc.

The idealogoy holds that if anything bad happens it can be traced to big government(taxes and regulations). Only good things and great outcomes come with laissez-faire capitalism. It's just that simple in conservapedia land. If you try to feed that engine anything else it just shuts down. The software detects an incompatible condition and the program issues a shutdown command.

 

[phonehome]

And still you said that you did/do not think that the AHCA "is a solution"

And still you said you "were OK with it" because it repeals "the Obamacare taxes"

And still after all your bitching and complaining and pissing and moaning you have yet to name ONE single tax that it would repeal THAT YOU ACTUALLY PAY.

 

[TexanStar]

My numbers are not atypical, they are straight off the Obamascam exchange website for healthy mid-30s people. Ask people with real life experience and they will tell you the same. Obamacare was designed by the insurance companies. Of course they make more profit.

Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump 4h4 hours ago
Republican Senators are working very hard to get there, with no help from the Democrats. Not easy! Perhaps just let OCare crash & burn!

You're talking about the plans offered for people who get their health care directly off the exchange?

You're paying for all of your insurance directly that way. Yes, that shit is expensive. It always was.

You're better off doing what most Americans try to do which is get a job where your employer pays a portion of your health care costs as a benefit. As someone in an employer subsidized plan, my costs have gone up over the years, but no noticable impact from AHCA (premiums and deductibles have just been on a rise since 2000 when walstreet started getting more heavily invested in the industry).

 

[BULLDOG00]

You're talking about the plans offered for people who get their health care directly off the exchange?

You're paying for all of your insurance directly that way. Yes, that shit is expensive. It always was.

You're better off doing what most Americans try to do which is get a job where your employer pays a portion of your health care costs as a benefit. As someone in an employer subsidized plan, my costs have gone up over the years, but no noticable impact from AHCA (premiums and deductibles have just been on a rise since 2000 when walstreet started getting more heavily invested in the industry).

No, it wasn't always expensive. Plans the equivalent of the top level Obamacare plans could be had for dirt cheap before Obamacare. Cadillac plans could be had at decent cost. You can't even get those coverages today. As for getting a job working for someone else, there are lots of self employed and small businesses in this country. That is something that used to be admired. I can see why liberals wouldn't understand that. Of course this doesn't help people who got cut to 29 hours or laid off. Like I said, you guys are talking about this from a position of inexperience because you work for someone else and don't feel the impact.

 

[TexanStar]

No, it wasn't always expensive. Plans the equivalent of the top level Obamacare plans could be had for dirt cheap before Obamacare. Cadillac plans could be had at decent cost. You can't even get those coverages today.

I don't know what to tell you, but having looked into self-paid health care once upon a time, shit has been expensive since 2000-ish.

As for getting a job working for someone else, there are lots of self employed and small businesses in this country. That is something that used to be admired. I can see why liberals wouldn't understand that. Of course this doesn't help people who got cut to 29 hours or laid off. Like I said, you guys are talking about this from a position of inexperience because you work for someone else and don't feel the impact.

That's 1.3% of the workers who were classed as part time (which is in turn the minority of workers). Full time employment has increased.

If an individual got laid off or hours reduced, I won't say that doesn't suck for them, but that's definitely not the direction the economy has gone.

 

[phonehome]

The ONLY plans that were "dirt cheap" prior to the ACA were the "catastrophic plans" which had super high deductibles as much as 10 grand in many cases, few were lower than 5 grand, the premiums were thousands of dollars a year which is no where in the neighborhood of "dirt cheap" IMO and "catastrophy" was narrowly defined to the point they covered next to nothing often nothing more than "cancer". Checkups and physicals not covered, precription drugs not covered of course no vision or dental, you name it it was NOT covered and they also did not go toward satisfying the deductible an ER visit for for anything other than what they call a "catastrophy" no covered. To add insult to injury you were subject to relativley low annual and lifetime limits and could get cancelled as soon as you get cancer so they would have to pay out NOTHING

You paid 1000's of dollars a year for basically NOTHING and went to the ER for your healthcare

Yep lets go back to THAT.

 

[phonehome]

AND

All that was happening when President Obama was an IL State Senator.

Back then the CEO of Lowes or whoever had to justify it as "business decision" and explain it a little but now just say "it is because of Obamacare"

 

[Industrialsize]

Get back to me when you have to buy policies for yourself, family or employees every year. You haven't lived this. You are like a virgin saying they know all about sex because they read a sex book.

You don't even know what it is that you don't know.

 

[BULLDOG00]

The ONLY plans that were "dirt cheap" prior to the ACA were the "catastrophic plans" which had super high deductibles as much as 10 grand in many cases, few were lower than 5 grand, the premiums were thousands of dollars a year which is no where in the neighborhood of "dirt cheap" IMO and "catastrophy" was narrowly defined to the point they covered next to nothing often nothing more than "cancer". Checkups and physicals not covered, precription drugs not covered of course no vision or dental, you name it it was NOT covered and they also did not go toward satisfying the deductible an ER visit for for anything other than what they call a "catastrophy" no covered. To add insult to injury you were subject to relativley low annual and lifetime limits and could get cancelled as soon as you get cancer so they would have to pay out NOTHING

You paid 1000's of dollars a year for basically NOTHING and went to the ER for your healthcare

Yep lets go back to THAT.

We are there now with Obamacare. Get sick, and prepared to bust out your $10k wad of cash to pay for the deductible and then some more to pay for co-insurance. It is a broken system. Why won't you libs admit this?

 

[Industrialsize]

We are there now with Obamacare. Get sick, and prepared to bust out your $10k wad of cash to pay for the deductible and then some more to pay for co-insurance. It is a broken system. Why won't you libs admit this?

And how does the Senate bill decrease premiums and deductibles?

 

[BULLDOG00]

And how does the Senate bill decrease premiums and deductibles?

I never said it did. I've been quite clear that I don't think the AHCA is the answer (we need full on free market with protections for the at risk or a full on Medicare for all plan). However dropping the individual mandate is excellent. That may actually cause prices to go down if people start walking away from insurance.

 

[phonehome]

Oh sure go back what was before

Go to ER's and stick everyone else with the sky high ER bills.

Ask anyone in the insurance industry who is not Republican schill and they will tell you that was why the rates were "skyrocketing" when President Obama was still an IL State Senator.

Define/describe "full on free market with protections for the at risk"

While you are at it for the nth time now, go ahead and name just one of those "Obamacare taxes" that you are so glad glad that the AHCA repeals THAT YOU ACTUALLY PAY

We will wait

 

[BULLDOG00]

While you are at it for the nth time now, go ahead and name just one of those "Obamacare taxes" that you are so glad glad that the AHCA repeals THAT YOU ACTUALLY PAY

We will wait

There is a tax penalty for people who refuse or can't pay for Obamacare insurance. Many people drop insurance now because it is not affordable any longer only to be hit with a tax. That needs to go along with the individual mandate.

 

[Klingsor]

However dropping the individual mandate is excellent. That may actually cause prices to go down if people start walking away from insurance.

The people walking away from insurance are the ones who need it the least--the young and healthy. What do you think that will do to premiums for people who need it the most--the old and sick?