The Sarah Palin we never knew

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Calboner, Jun 11, 2011.

  1. Calboner

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    The lead of "The Tragedy of Sarah Palin" by Joshua Green (The Atlantic, June 2011):
    A paragraph from the article:
    The contentions of Green's essay are confirmed by this news article: "Long-lost Sarah Palin surfaces in emails" by Molly Ball (Politico, June 11, 2011).
     
  2. Jason

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    It never ceases to amaze me how nations with populations of millions come up with such weird choices as leaders.

    Right now the UK has as leader of the opposition a non-entity who seems unable to inspire his party or the voters. I bet most outside the UK can't name him - and I bet a mighty lot of people in the UK wouldn't know him either. At the last presidential election the Republicans ran with someone too old for the job - certainly too old for a job that requires 24/7 work. And as running mate he had the very strange Palin. From a UK perspective it was as if the Republicans wanted to give Obama an easy victory.
     
  3. Bbucko

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    They couldn't run on any of GWBush's enduring positives because, by the time of the convention (if not significantly before), it was obvious that he was toxic to his own party almost as much as to everyone else. If we'd had a choice between Obama '08 and, say, McCain '00, things would well have happened differently; but we didn't.

    And in the end, John McCain's biggest handicap was John McCain: he was erratic ("We're all Georgians", suspending his campaign in mid-swing because of the economic collapse, etc) and continuously showed poor judgement. Selecting Sarah Palin was really just the icing on a really fetid cake.

    As to the article: I think the word I'd use is interesting. It's probably the most balanced article about her that I've ever read, given her intensely polarizing nature. At times it's smarmy and condescending (more of Alaska in general that Palin in particular), but you have the feeling that the author genuinely appreciates what he points out as her strong points (which have evaporated since the '08 Republican convention when she turned into a Pitbull in lipstick). It's undoubtedly the first time I've seen "pragmatic" and "Palin" used in the same sentence.

    I just wonder how much of it is truly reality-based and how much of it is the wandering mind of someone opposed to Obama but unenthusiastic toward anyone currently in the Republican field as a possible contender in '12.
     
  4. Jason

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    Interesting. In the UK the Conservatives had a toxic legacy following the Thatcher-Major years, the image of "the nasty party". Certainly the Conservatives had got lots wrong (as surely the Republicans or any governing party) but the legacy went way beyond this. It has taken them years to come back - basically Labour had to wreck the UK economy before they lost an election, and the Conservatives didn't really win, hence the Coalition. And the Liberal Democrats have been incredibly valuable to the Conservatives in "detoxifying" the Conservative brand.

    I suspect that there is an analogy with US politics - that the Republicans are still something of a toxic brand and will remain so until past the next election. For that matter the continent of Europe is now full of governing parties that are becoming toxic through austerity and becoming unelectable for years ahead - and some of them are actually doing quite a good job. Toxicity might be a fact of life in modern democracies, but it is a worrying force also.
     
  5. D_Gunther Snotpole

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    I'm Canadian and so come to this question as much an outsider as you are, Jason.
    But I don't think the Republicans are toxic except to those opposing forces who would find them toxic anyway. (No Democrat, or damn few of them, is going to find much to praise in the party's general posture or vision.)
    However, if the Republicans could find a truly strong candidate, I think they would be a very potent force in 2012.
    The problem is that, at present, anyone who has enough allure among Republicans to win the nomination would not have sufficient general appeal to win the election.
    That said, we have to remember that a week is an eternity in politics -- and we have 75 weeks to go before the next election.
    I put my money with some confidence on Obama, but he's no sure thing.
     
  6. D_Gunther Snotpole

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    I agree.
    He has no axe to grind and can see her considerable virtues that more recent folly has buried.
     
  7. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    Really, Hhuck? I've never known you to be one given to hyperbole.

    I might give you occasional. Almost everyone has good points.
     
  8. itsthepopei

    itsthepopei Active Member

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    Its only due to public perception being poisoned and blatant racial politics being pushed into the mainstream. The sad truth is any central or left leaning candidate in america starts at a disadvantage. the ability of the right in america to get people to vote against there own interests has always amazed me but the massive in your face approach during the last 2 years has been mindbogglingly successful so much so that on most major issues we have gotten a conservative solution.
     
  9. D_Gunther Snotpole

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    Oh, she has considerable virtues ... that's why she's gone so far with very few qualifications.
    She has a certain charisma, she has energy, those emails indicate that she had some disinterested intentions in the use of power ... I could go on.
    But then she has her limits ... a quick but woefully uninformed intelligence, a populist bent that, where I sit, invites contempt, and an ego that once sparked takes the whole show over.
    I was only counting the upside, Nick.
    You were taking the average.


    I agree.
    But 'public perception' is everything. The Republicans are, sadly, naturally closer to the current political center than the Democrats. That's why, pace Jason, they can't remain toxic for long.

    Yes, it's just amazing how the American electorate can't locate their own interests.
    American politics has been reduced to propaganda, an art that the Republicans have mastered far better than the Dems have.
     
  10. Bbucko

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    Bob Dole exemplified the mean-Republican paradigm, which was so intense that it cost him the election in '96 when Clinton was very vulnerable due to his health-care fiasco and unrelenting, personality-driven attacks from the Republicans such as the Whitewater investigations. Once the election was over, Dole's entire demeanor changed to the point where he was actually likeable, with a spot as a host on SNL and his Viagra ads.

    Republican presidential politics have traditionally been all about "waiting one's turn" (accounting for GHW Bush and Dole, for example). That's why Romney's considered the front-runner right now, though I just don't see the Teabaggers warming up to him at all. The only really recent contradictions to this were Reagan and GW Bush; Reagan defeated Carter because Carter's toxicity was even greater than Reagan's (he was seen at the time as too extreme). Even setting aside the post-election horror show in 2000, if Gore had carried his "home" state of Tennessee, Florida wouldn't have mattered. That was his election to lose, and he did it brilliantly.

    The problem with America's brand toxicity is that we only have two parties: no matter how toxic Republicanism's perceived, there's only one alternative, and some states (think TX or UT, for instance) will simply never be Blue, at least not until there is truly a generational change, and those take decades.

    The really curious thing is how the Tea Party will affect the eventual Republican nominee. Right now the extremism that they push is usually off-putting to Independents, especially in true swing states like CO, PA, OH and NC. But I cannot imagine a nominee of whom the Teabaggers won't approve, and the Republicans can't win a national election right now without them. To my mind, that's the Republicans' greatest single challenge in 2012.

    In a saner time, Huntsman would actually have a good shot, but he's completely unacceptable to the base who always selects the nominee in the primaries and caucuses. That's a shame, because he's really qualified, smart, articulate, informed, etc. Instead they're gonna wind up with something that's gonna look a lot like Perry/Bachmann: a guaranteed loser barring another catastrophic economic meltdown or an especially horrifying scandal.

    I would say more "willfully" than "woefully" :cool:
     
  11. chicagosam

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    A presidential running team of Palin and Bachmann could be the best thing that ever happened to the Democratic party and political comedy. Campaign slogan: "Dumber and Dumberer, ya betcha!"
     
  12. D_Fiona_Farvel

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    And probably the worse thing that could happen to the united states if thinking in terms of legitimizing their ideology and creating a larger "community of support" for their brand of radicalism.
     
  13. B_grabbinass

    B_grabbinass New Member

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    Let me set you straight on the U.S. political joke system....The ZIONIST/JEWS run BOTH the democrat & republican parties here....SO who becomes the puppet president is MEANINGLESS !!! ---- DAVID DUKE 2012 ~ 14/88
     
  14. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Well, that last post was pretty pointless (among other things). :rolleyes:
    I shall re-read posts 1-12 as a means to revitalize the few brain cells that went into shock.
     
  15. Joll

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    Yeh, it's a shame. :redface:

    Seems there's a lot more to her (or was?) than meets the eye. Maybe getting on with some serious work, instead of blowin' her own trumpet all the time could bring her back to earth?
     
  16. D_Gunther Snotpole

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    Haha.
    Her will is woeful. * slaps thigh and roars *
    Good overall post, btw.

    Yes. It's great to see the Republicans imploding. Usually, the election is the incumbent's to lose, but with this current Repub crew, that control may have flipped over to the challengers.

    Personally, joll ... I think she's a lost cause now.
     
  17. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    Sorry, hon, but there's more than a semantic difference between easily numerable and considerable. :wink:
     
  18. D_Gunther Snotpole

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    Yes but, that said, her charisma and energy are considerable.
    So is her ability to perceive where the populist redneck 'middle' is.
    I don't mean that she does good things with them.
    She's a walking insult to the American people ... except that, for a long time, many of them were licking her boots.
     
  19. B_Nick8

    B_Nick8 New Member

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    If you're going to continue to argue this, I'm going to have to ask you to step outside.

    That, or have you offer her the office of Prime Minister. Either way, it's blood on your hands.
     
  20. D_Gunther Snotpole

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    You always knew how to offer a bargain I couldn't refuse.
     
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