the shitty way society treats male victims of sexual abuse.

[monel]

not that strange really.
my sister was shocked when i told her i wasn't happy with her staying friends with my rapist ex bf. she didn't see why it should bother me.
there have been family get togethers where he was invited and i was not.

I still think it is strange though maybe not unusual. Either way it is certainly a horrible betrayal. I am truly sorry for your experience, Dolfette.

 

[dolfette]

meh. shit happens.

point it, it's a pretty normal reaction.
if they convince themselves that it's you who are flawed & making a fuss, and that he's not a monster they could have protected you from, then they can free themselves of guilt and act like nothing happened.

 

[Elastagirl]

I completely agree. And what about all the jokes people tell about boys hooking up with their teachers. It's actually tolerated as a source of comedy. We don't take boys being violated seriously at all, but they are every bit as damaged as women victims, maybe even more because they probably don't think it's manly to be hurt by what happened.

it's a major pet hate of mine.

the lack of sympathy, the woefully inadequate (or often non-existent) support services, the implication that they are less of a man, the assumption that they must have enjoyed it.

female victims get a bum deal but male victims get it much, much worse.

thoughts?

 

[dolfette]

I completely agree. And what about all the jokes people tell about boys hooking up with their teachers. It's actually tolerated as a source of comedy. We don't take boys being violated seriously at all, but they are every bit as damaged as women victims, maybe even more because they probably don't think it's manly to be hurt by what happened.

i think a lot of the guys think that they'd like that pretty blonde teacher to come on to them, so the kid must've liked it too.

just my observation, but i've noticed (on the whole) that women are a lot harsher on these teachers than men are.

 

[helgaleena]

Dolfette and thickjohnny, it really saddens me that you were not able to get support from your families. That is not how it's supposed to be.

 

[Elastagirl]

i think a lot of the guys think that they'd like that pretty blonde teacher to come on to them, so the kid must've liked it too.

Yeah they'd like it now that they're an adult but adults aren't as vulnerable or impressionable. Those boys probably get so messed up by the incident they need therapy and have relationship issues for years.

 

[B_Hung Jon]

Yeah they'd like it now that they're an adult but adults aren't as vulnerable or impressionable. Those boys probably get so messed up by the incident they need therapy and have relationship issues for years.

Yeh, it can be terrible for a person's whole life. As I said earlier in this thread, my uncle was sexually abused as a nine year old boy. He's had a lot of problems in his marriages. He's been married three times. He has hard time trusting anyone including his spouse and even his own children. Of course he also has had a booze dependency and has been in AA for years. Lucky for me he's been willing to talk to me about his issues so I've had the opportunity to understand him in a more intimate way. The abuse of children not only affects them but also their whole families, including their families to be. Sad and horrific stuff.

 

[playerclient]

Thanks for this thread I really appreciate it.

I was abused by my mother in a way that therapists have referred to as covert sexual abuse with one overt incident, but part of a larger abusive schema along a central theme. But it wasn't sexual contact. It is very hard to contend with covert abuse because it is/can be abstract, subjective, hard to identify, and can consist of multitudes of "little" things summing up to a "big thing." Hidden meanings, things to be interpreted.

As a victim, it has been very difficult to come to terms with my mother as abuser--and more so, psychotherapy talk here, to integrate the "good mother" and the "bad mother"--due to the abstractness and subjectivity rather for a lot of it than having major, concrete, indisputable incidences of abuse to focus on. Some people don't think what I experienced was sexual abuse at all--it was part of a larger issue--while I've had female therapists with sons cry when I tell them about it.

I came here years ago as a lurker due to complexes resulting from the way my mother treated me. It's difficult to explain that without getting into the whole thing, and I don't want to get into details. I delurked 6 months ago in hopes of sharing my story here someday--it's relevant here. But, I've not done that after seeing more closely what I consider to be a too-often extremely negative, hostile environment for dialogue here. I haven't shared with my siblings what happened--I'm 46 and both parents are dead--and am considering it, in the longterm view. I wanted to test the waters of sharing further by doing it here, esp. given some of the details. Don't know what I'll do.

But to add to the discussion: Not all sex abuse is assault, not all is physical, not all is overt, and the covert stuff can be extremely destructive and particularly hard to recover from given the litany of variables I mentioned above that one needs to contend with internally and externally.

Thanks for starting this and keeping it on-topic and positive.

 

[dolfette]

Not all sex abuse is assault, not all is physical, not all is overt, and the covert stuff can be extremely destructive and particularly hard to recover from given the litany of variables I mentioned above that one needs to contend with internally and externally.

if you're out and out raped then people know that word and understand it's meaning. it's a lot harder for people to understand when there isn't one clearly defined event. but when it's a steady drip, drip, drip on an impressionable and vulnerable child...

 

[B_thickjohnny]

Strange how your family reacted. Were I in your shoes I would have regarded their behavior as a betryal.

Yeah, that's how I took it. I could never understand how or why they would continue to socialize with him. Only my youngest brother (I'm the oldest of 4 boys) completely cut him out.

It started really about 10 or so years ago. My brother all had kids around the same time so I told each one as their kids were getting to the age where I thought it would be a concern - from about 6 years old. Only the youngest pulled his kids in, told his wife and refused to let their kids stay at my parents house unattended/unsupervised. my mom was hurt by this so we told her what happened. We never told my dad because of his health. We didn't think it would help matters so I kept quiet.

The other two brothers did nothing. They didn't see the need to tell their wives even. I took that as almost a "it happened to me too" admission but not wanted to deal with it. Better to sweep it under the rug.

Anyway, now the kids are all ranging from 16 to 23 but still uncle is invited for BBQs, weddings etc. He sits with my dad who's sickly nowadays which i think is a sign of penance, if that makes sense.

On another note, there's another cousin (there are three boys all 1 year apart so now we're 54,53 and 52). The 53 year old had a stroke and is in physical therapy. He's an only child and his parents have passed. Uncle is taking care of him around the clock. I'm guessing it happened to him to though he never said anything to anyone. But he spent time with him too so I'm guessing it happened.

What got me through it is, believe it or not, a Catholic priest. He was a friend of mine, about 10 years older than me who I told when I was about 15. We would just sit and talk for hours about all of this. What it did, I think, was drive home the idea of forgiveness. Not forgetting, just forgiveness. There's peace in forgiveness. It told my uncle I forgave him (not to his face) and it helped me get passed it all. My cousin refused to forgive and I feel he's really been burdened by it.

Anyway, typing this is actually good for me. Thanks for helping with my own private therapy.

 

[travis1985]

@ Travis - have you done any research on conviction rates in rape cases?
number of rape cases that actually go to court?

I’m a paralegal who has done work on rape cases both male and female. My work on any case entails doing the legal research associated with it, walking it through every step of the legal system, and seeing how it ends. I'm in a position to comment on what is likely to happen to defendants based on the circumstances of the accusation.

oh look! an idiot!

And you base this on what? Your own personal bigotry? Best to be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

And you can both feel free to eat shit. Especially you, Intrigue. Having full mouths will keep you from running them when you probably shouldn't.

 

[monel]

Thickjohnny, I'm sorry for your experience but happy that you were able to get past it. I'm sure it had to compound the pain not to have had the support of your family. It is good that you did have someone to whom to turn. Good luck.

 

[B_subgirrl]

meh. shit happens.

point it, it's a pretty normal reaction.
if they convince themselves that it's you who are flawed & making a fuss, and that he's not a monster they could have protected you from, then they can free themselves of guilt and act like nothing happened.

It's definitely all too common. The ex I spoke of earlier? His sister accused their father of abusing one of her children. The family's response? They shut her out completely. Would no longer acknowledge her existence. Every single one of them (apart from my ex) chose the father over her. She thought it was worth it if it was the cost of keeping her children safe.

A friend of mine told her mum in high school that she had been abused by two male relatives. Her mother still expected her to go to family gatherings and act like nothing was wrong.

Thanks for this thread I really appreciate it.

I was abused by my mother in a way that therapists have referred to as covert sexual abuse with one overt incident, but part of a larger abusive schema along a central theme. But it wasn't sexual contact. It is very hard to contend with covert abuse because it is/can be abstract, subjective, hard to identify, and can consist of multitudes of "little" things summing up to a "big thing." Hidden meanings, things to be interpreted.

You have no idea how much you have helped me put a name to something! I've struggled to describe the behaviour of a certain person for just this reason. Thank you for posting about this.

Many hugs for what you've been through.

As a victim, it has been very difficult to come to terms with my mother as abuser--and more so, psychotherapy talk here, to integrate the "good mother" and the "bad mother"--due to the abstractness and subjectivity rather for a lot of it than having major, concrete, indisputable incidences of abuse to focus on. Some people don't think what I experienced was sexual abuse at all--it was part of a larger issue--while I've had female therapists with sons cry when I tell them about it.

Sometimes it's necessary to keep memories locked up in boxes inside you in order to continue associating with the person normally. After years of having separate boxes, it can be hard to merge those boxes once you are able to do so.

I came here years ago as a lurker due to complexes resulting from the way my mother treated me. It's difficult to explain that without getting into the whole thing, and I don't want to get into details. I delurked 6 months ago in hopes of sharing my story here someday--it's relevant here. But, I've not done that after seeing more closely what I consider to be a too-often extremely negative, hostile environment for dialogue here. I haven't shared with my siblings what happened--I'm 46 and both parents are dead--and am considering it, in the longterm view. I wanted to test the waters of sharing further by doing it here, esp. given some of the details. Don't know what I'll do.

It sounds like you've been through much worse than I have, but it seems that I do have some experience of covert abuse. PM me if you ever want to talk.

Yeah, that's how I took it. I could never understand how or why they would continue to socialize with him. Only my youngest brother (I'm the oldest of 4 boys) completely cut him out.

It started really about 10 or so years ago. My brother all had kids around the same time so I told each one as their kids were getting to the age where I thought it would be a concern - from about 6 years old. Only the youngest pulled his kids in, told his wife and refused to let their kids stay at my parents house unattended/unsupervised. my mom was hurt by this so we told her what happened. We never told my dad because of his health. We didn't think it would help matters so I kept quiet.

Well done for letting your family members know what had happened. That was such a brave thing to do, and you may well have saved those children. I have great admiration for anyone who can do something like this. You should be very, very proud of yourself.

 

[helgaleena]

Guys, we have indeed had threads for people to get abuse off their chests here before. I believe that it's a delicate issue and now and then people have gotten accused of fishing for pity or making it up or worse. But hopefully the topic will stay around and be of help to the ones ready to open up.

I have been told abuse happened to me when I was an infant. I can't remember it consciously, and sometimes when I've been in situations of stress later on, I will react with amnesia. It can be frustrating not to know why I get knee-jerk reactions to things that I can't reason my way out of.

So for everybody here who is able to voice what happened to them and remember it and consciously deal with it, good for you. If telling us at this relatively impersonal venue helps you deal, that gratifies me very much.

And it doesn't mean we shouldn't change how our cultures treat hurting powerless children of either sex.

 

[deleted556573]

I completely agree. And what about all the jokes people tell about boys hooking up with their teachers. It's actually tolerated as a source of comedy. We don't take boys being violated seriously at all, but they are every bit as damaged as women victims, maybe even more because they probably don't think it's manly to be hurt by what happened.

EDIT: Never mind. I had typed a good example of this, but I had to come back and delete it. This particular event is still too raw for me to talk about, 20 years later, and it didn't even happen to me. It happened to a VERY close friend of mine, who has since committed suicide because of it.

 

[AlteredEgo]

Why is it that no one blinks twice about the "Twilight Moms" waving signs with lewd messages at the (then) 16 year-old actors? I think it is related to the assumption that dudes are always horny and cannot be inappropriately sexualized.

 

[dolfette]

Why is it that no one blinks twice about the "Twilight Moms" waving signs with lewd messages at the (then) 16 year-old actors? I think it is related to the assumption that dudes are always horny and cannot be inappropriately sexualized.

i've never seen or heard of that, but, eeeeeeeeeeeeeeew!

 

[VernalTiger]

Why is it that no one blinks twice about the "Twilight Moms" waving signs with lewd messages at the (then) 16 year-old actors? I think it is related to the assumption that dudes are always horny and cannot be inappropriately sexualized.

Or Bieber-fever... Just say no!

 

[AlteredEgo]

Or Bieber-fever... Just say no!

Right? At least the Twilight actors looked mature. He looks like a little boy. I heard a morning radio hostess express some explicit fantasies about him maybe two years ago. The next day, the morning show interviewed him, and the female hosts said extremely inappropriate things to him. He didn't even know what to say back. The male hosts did not call the ladies out on their shit, either. I don't remember now what was said, but it prompted me to do something I have never done before or since. I complained to the station, and the FCC. That's very big for me, because I do not support cooperation with those kinds of authorities most of the time. I don't think anything happened. The same women have also made really stomach-churning comments about the Twilight actors before they came of age too. How would those women feel if they were those boys' mothers? How would they feel if they'd been girls, and Elvis Duran had said the exact same things? Needless to say, I boycott the station even though I have listened to it everywhere I've lived since I was 11 years old. I listened to the many incarnations of that morning show (The Morning Zoo) for 18 years or so. Until just now, I'd quite forgotten why I stopped.

 

[dolfette]

that's disgusting, ae.