The Silence here is deafening...

Flashy

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On Obama's tactics in the Chrysler mess and soon the GM mess.

I am curious why some people here, who have rightfully in the past raised questions about the BUSH/Cheney administration and its questionable ties and behavior to companies like Haliburton, are not going absolutely berserk, as President Obama, has threatened and utterly destroyed bondholders, notably *SECURED LENDERS* the backbone of our financial system, not to mention castigated them publicly, since they are standing up for their investors, while Obama steers that money to the UAW becoming a majority owner in Chrysler.

I am just curious, from our friends here, who hang on his every word, what they think about Obama criticizing *SECURED LENDERS*, people who invest in this nation, for looking out for their investors, while he screws them over to look after his political supporters, i.e. UAW.

I hope people realize, that the President, who is hopeful of getting lenders, investors, fund managers, et. al to buy up the troubled assets that are weighing our system down, is now publicly castigating, threatening and humiliating, unjustly, the same people who can buy up all those troubled assets.

so why, now, with a president who publicly humiliates you, threatens you, has now shown he will screw you over financially if you lend to secure these troubled assets, if it is beneficial to his supporters, will people go about doing that now?

He has just made an enemy of a 1.5 trillion dollar industry, (hedge funds) which he needs to buy up all this toxic debt...so why now, will they do that, when has now shown he will screw them financially, and publicly destroy them if things do not go well?

Frankly, i disagree with Obama on many things...policy wise...but i did not find many of the things he did to be loathsome or objectionable...i merely disagreed strongly with him...but this current behavior, is absolutely crazy, not to mention, incredibly stupid.

I spoke with about 100-150 friends, former colleagues, and relatives, via phone and email over the last day or so...all of whom are involved in hedge funds, many of whom voted for Obama...the current feeling ranged from disbelief, to utter hatred...but the most common theme was, "fuck him if he thinks we are buying up anything in TARP now".

I would highly recommend reading this article, by Cliff Asness, who manages a 20 billion dollar hedge fund, and happens to be very brilliant...so some ofy ou can understand just what is happening, and what is going on behind the sscenes of this mess in the autoindustry...

the president is effectively screwing over lenders and shareholders, for far less then what they could get in bankruptcy court, so he can effectively hand control of the company to the UAW, and then he is demonizing the lenders publicly for being greedy and not "sacrificing" their investors' money, to give it to the UAW.

If there is *ANYONE* here who can justify this move on the part of Obama, which has *NOTHING* to do with the GOP, so let us not get into another republican/democrat spat, i'd like to hear the reasoning behind this move.

Since Cliff Asness has said it better than i could, i would ask that you read the article, then comment.

here is the first paragraph, and then the link

Unafraid In Greenwich Connecticut
Clifford S. Asness
Managing and Founding Principal
AQR Capital Management, LLC

The President has just harshly castigated hedge fund managers for being unwilling to take his administration’s bid for their Chrysler bonds. He called them “speculators” who were “refusing to sacrifice like everyone else” and who wanted “to hold out for the prospect of an unjustified taxpayer-funded bailout.”

The responses of hedge fund managers have been, appropriately, outrage, but generally have been anonymous for fear of going on the record against a powerful President (an exception, though still in the form of a “group letter”, was the superb note from “The Committee of Chrysler Non-TARP Lenders” some of the points of which I echo here, and a relatively few firms, like Oppenheimer, that have publicly defended themselves). Furthermore, one by one the managers and banks are said to be caving to the President’s wishes out of justifiable fear.....


I run an approximately twenty billion dollar money management firm that offers hedge funds as well as public mutual funds and unhedged traditional investments. My company is not involved in the Chrysler situation, but I am still aghast at the President's comments (of course these are my own views not those of my company).


Hedge Funds Outraged At Obama Bullying But Also Cowering In Fear
 

B_starinvestor

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This is one example where Obama's blatant lying and pandering can't be window-dressed with the typical public relations machine back-handed trickery and brainwashing his herd of sheep.

A knockout punch to the very essence of capitalism

Blatant pandering, whoring himself out to union constituents

Completely fucking a group he was begging for help a short time ago

This 'sacrifice like the rest of us' bullshit is so Obama it gives me a gag reflex

Simply showing his true colors of backhanded pandering, stupidity, betrayal, deception and political prostitution.
 

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I'm actually seeing rhetoric around "we need more government control, I don't mind it at all". Think they are just the crowd that believes this guy will do and can do absolutely no wrong. Reminds of ppl saying they didn't mind paying more taxes.
 

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I think he's doing a great job. Doing exactly what needs to be done.

Wall Streeters: as Obama mentioned the other day, he is the one standing between you and the mob with torches and pitchforks.

That means there are many of us ready to confiscate your personal property and use it to pay off the people you've fucked over. Many of us are tired of financial institutions getting bailed out while we file for bankruptcy because financial industry fatcats are getting their golden parachutes and bailouts and parachuting peacefully into the sunset, while we starve to death in the dark.

Do you get that? No, you fucking Bushwads do not.

You'd better be glad Obama is there.
 
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Flashy

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I wouldn't say he is stupid, Star...i just think he has no fundamental understanding of business and markets, which is unsurprising due to his mostly academic/legal/community based history...

but this behavior is really rather unseemly, not to mention totally devious and certainly "Un-Obama-like", in terms of how he has attempted to portray himself as a uniter, not a divider, and a forward thinker willing to listen to all sides.

he essentially is throwing over our nations well-established bankruptcy laws, under the aegis of executive power. He has no legal right to do this, and, hopefully if people are not intimidated, it will be taken to court.

he has no legal right to strike down legal obligations regarding debt.
 

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Wall Streeters: as Obama mentioned the other day, he is the one standing between you and the mob with torches and pitchforks.

That means there are many of us ready to confiscate your personal property and use it to pay off the people you've fucked over.

Not a bad point. Cept that it leaves Obama in a power brokerage position that many of us feel he is abusing and misusing. And there isn't much we can do about it except go along, lest the pitchforks reign supreme. Nasty Catch-22
 

Flashy

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I think he's doing a great job. Doing exactly what needs to be done.
breaking established bankruptcy laws, that have been in this country for decades, is not "what needs to be done". He has no legal right to do that.


Wall Streeters: as Obama mentioned the other day, he is the one standing between you and the mob with torches and pitchforks.
on the contrary, he is the one encouraging the mob.

just remember, Wall Streeters are the ones standing between him and buying all those troubled assets. Would you help out someone who demonized you and made clear he would screw you over legally if it came to that? You need to learn about more about the markets.

Obama is standing between you and shit. The "mob" has no right to do anything, and most of that mob, has money with hedge funds and wall street...just where do you think your pension.401k, IRA and other money is?

hedge funds, mutual funds, annuities.

feel free to stab and burn whatever you want...because alot of it is yours. if you want to burn up your things and Wall Street's also, be my guest.

That means there are many of us ready to confiscate your personal property and use it to pay off the people you've fucked over.
You have no legal right to confiscate people's personal property without cause, and the simple fact you even said this shows to frightening degree just how incredibly insane some have you folks have gone. That may be the most unamerican statement i have ever seen, and the fact that you actually put that forward as rational arguement shows just how crazy some folks have gone.

"confiscate your personal property"?

move to North Korea.

you have no right to confiscate a stock broker or a trader's money who has done nothing to you.

learn about the laws of the United States please.

Do you get that? No, you fucking Bushwads do not
confiscation of property and breaking bankruptcy laws have nothing to do with Bush...in fact, both of those things you have advocated, are remarkably like Bush.

how would you react, if George W. Bush decided that confiscating people's property was okay and breaking bankruptcy laws was fine in order to guarantee that his cronies received their moneyshould he deem it necessary? You'd go fucking ballistic...as would i. and rightly so
You'd better be glad Obama is there.
you'd better be sad that Obama, by doing this, and you by suggesting confiscation of people's wealth, puts you right on the same level as George W. Bush.

We have bankruptcy laws for a reason in this country.
 
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B_starinvestor

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I think he's doing a great job. Doing exactly what needs to be done.

Wall Streeters: as Obama mentioned the other day, he is the one standing between you and the mob with torches and pitchforks.

.

Interesting observation - especially considering his entire Cabinet is comprised of ex Wall Street executives.

This asshole is making a very dangerous precedent with this move.
 

MH07

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First, my argument was rhetorical. I am well-versed in the law and the Constitution (which you morons managed to disregard for 8 years under your MBA hero).

I am also very familiar with operations in places like the Cayman Islands, Bermuda, etc. where Wall Street and wealthy individuals go to hide income from U. S. Taxes (and why they do it). I have to pay MY taxes, and so do you.

You really can't talk about the law and the Constitution and power grabs, can you? Because then we would have to talk about George W. Bush and "that damn piece of paper", which you SUDDENLY seem to have DISCOVERED and now CHERISH---when you have done nothing but run roughshod over it for the past 8 years.

how would you react, if George W. Bush decided that confiscating people's property was okay and breaking bankruptcy laws was fine in order to guarantee that his cronies received their moneyshould he deem it necessary? You'd go fucking ballistic...as would i. and rightly so

Google "Halliburton" if you want to know about breaking laws and cronieism.

I have an MBA. I used to buy into all the bullshit you're spouting.

I no longer believe in unfettered capitalism. Period. I think more government regulation of business is in order. I think there should be government-mandated caps on executive salary, and I am a firm advocate of eliminating tax loopholes for corporations and rich people. Ride's over, pay up.

Further, as far as my 401k etc is concerned: it's at 48% of its value 1 year ago. Who is responsible? ME? Obama? No, it is the responsibility of GREEDY FUCKS LIKE YOU, who couldn't just take "A LOT" of income, you had to have "EXCESS".

Oh, speaking of 401k's, when I was in college, we pretty much expected that we would go to work for a company, work there 30-40 years, get a pension and a gold watch (like my grandfather, a bank president). Then smart MBA's and Wall Streeters figured out that they could get their finger in bigger pies by cobbling up the 401k program (which worked for liberals too, because that augmented Social Security, which they then raided to pay for other social programs). 401k was NEVER intended to REPLACE retirement programs/Social Security, it was intended to AUGMENT them. Of course, the greedy fucks in the Executive Suites (also used to be me) thought that was just great, now we can exit pensions altogether and be "lean and mean", and let people DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES what kind of pension they'd like. What a load of crap!

Speaking of the bankruptcy laws, isn't it convenient that you people are championing them, now that you've gerrymandered them to favor credit card issuers (which hurts the middle and lower classes), instead of providing a "fresh start" to people who lose their jobs while corporate executives get huge bonuses?

We are TIRED of YOU.
 

B_starinvestor

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First, my argument was rhetorical. I am well-versed in the law and the Constitution (which you morons managed to disregard for 8 years under your MBA hero).

I am also very familiar with operations in places like the Cayman Islands, Bermuda, etc. where Wall Street and wealthy individuals go to hide income from U. S. Taxes (and why they do it). I have to pay MY taxes, and so do you.

They 'go there to hide income?'

fraid not.

I think the commute from the Caymans to Wall Street everyday would be a little onerous.

If you stick a pile of money in a foreign bank to avoid paying taxes on interest income you are taking a huge risk with your money.


Google "Halliburton" if you want to know about breaking laws and cronieism.
And what company was more suited, capable and equipped to provide the services rendered in the Middle East than Halliburton?

I have an MBA. I used to buy into all the bullshit you're spouting.
What is 'bullshit' about believing the President shouldn't be circumventing bankruptcy laws?

Further, as far as my 401k etc is concerned: it's at 48% of its value 1 year ago. Who is responsible? ME? Obama? No, it is the responsibility of GREEDY FUCKS LIKE YOU, who couldn't just take "A LOT" of income, you had to have "EXCESS".
The mortgage crisis was a disaster with many responsible parties. Labeling anyone and everyone as a 'greedy fuck' because they are involved in finance is ignorant and asinine.

Oh, speaking of 401k's, when I was in college, we pretty much expected that we would go to work for a company, work there 30-40 years, get a pension and a gold watch (like my grandfather, a bank president). Then smart MBA's and Wall Streeters figured out that they could get their finger in bigger pies by cobbling up the 401k program (which worked for liberals too, because that augmented Social Security, which they then raided to pay for other social programs). 401k was NEVER intended to REPLACE retirement programs/Social Security, it was intended to AUGMENT them. Of course, the greedy fucks in the Executive Suites (also used to be me) thought that was just great, now we can exit pensions altogether and be "lean and mean", and let people DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES what kind of pension they'd like. What a load of crap!
401(k) simply put the control of retirement into the hands of employees, instead of employers. Its about taking personal responsibility; and its an exponentially superior way to plan for retirement than dinosaur pension plans.

If you are so hyped up about pensions, go talk to a retired pilot from Delta - whose pension income got cut by 60% after the Delta pension was taken over by the PBGC after the pension plan imploded.

We are TIRED of YOU.
and we of you.
 

Flashy

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First, my argument was rhetorical. I am well-versed in the law and the Constitution (which you morons managed to disregard for 8 years under your MBA hero).
1. George W. Bush is not my hero. I never voted for him, either in 2000 or 2004, or his father, in 88 or 92.

watch who you are calling a moron, especially when you make "rhetorical" arguments about confiscating wealth for no reason.

I am also very familiar with operations in places like the Cayman Islands, Bermuda, etc. where Wall Street and wealthy individuals go to hide income from U. S. Taxes (and why they do it). I have to pay MY taxes, and so do you.
2. NOt every person on Wall Street hides income taxes in tax havens. It is illegal, and not worth the risk.

I am in the over 250,000 a year income tax bracket. I also work on Wall Street. I do not hide money offshore.

the same goes for my family.

You really can't talk about the law and the Constitution and power grabs, can you? Because then we would have to talk about George W. Bush and "that damn piece of paper", which you SUDDENLY seem to have DISCOVERED and now CHERISH---when you have done nothing but run roughshod over it for the past 8 years.
3. I haven't done anything. I did not vote for W. nor do i support him...and i consider him among the three worst presidents ever.

I can talk about the law and consitutution as much as i want. Obama trying an end around on bankruptcy laws has nothing to do with the consitution, or George W. Bush.

That does not mean that Obama's behavior on this matter is excused.

if you cannot even discuss an Obama failing without a desperate shot at a poor president i did not vote for, then your arguments become rather absurd and desperate.

So why not deal with the issue at hand? We all know W. was an awful president. Fine.

so, deal with the fact that what Obama is doing, would have caused you to erupt in fury if it had been GWB doing it, and rightfully so...but your hatred for bush and blind love for Obama, is, in this very thread, prohibiting you from dealing with what *OBAMA* is doing...

and you cannot handle it.

this is not a republican issue. this is not a GWB and all his shittiness and failings issue...this is a *LEGAL* issue with regards to Obama...deal with it, if you can, for two seconds without mentioning GWB, who is not, in fact, doing this.



Google "Halliburton" if you want to know about breaking laws and cronieism.
I already have. I have already stated his behavior as unseemly...how exactly does that change this topic? You cannot deal with it.
I have an MBA. I used to buy into all the bullshit you're spouting.
I see...does your MBA tell you to deal with different issues and subject and topics as they come, on an individual basis?

or does the fact that Ronald Reagan's administration sold weapons to Iran have something to do with Obama trying to skirt bankruptcy laws, intimidate lenders, and reward unions unjustly?

we know, we know, the current topic is George W. Bush's fault, obviously.

so, when will you begin using that MBA, or are you just happy eating your crackers while parroting the shitty things we all know George W. Bush did?

If Obama is found to do something corrupt in 2 years time, that causes a big problem, will that somehow be okay, because W was a bad president and stupid?


I no longer believe in unfettered capitalism. Period. I think more government regulation of business is in order. I think there should be government-mandated caps on executive salary, and I am a firm advocate of eliminating tax loopholes for corporations and rich people. Ride's over, pay up.
I do not believe in "unfettered capitalism" either. i was against the GLBA of 2000, where the dems got together with the republicans, and Clinton signed into law the bill which repealed the important provisions of Glass Steagall which had served us will for many decades.

but i do not believe in "government mandated caps on executive salary". government has no right to interfere with the way corporations pay their salaries except if that corporation has done something illegal or if the government is involved in a bailout of the company.

i think that if there is a government mandated cap on executive salary, then the next thing will be a mandated cap on plumbers salaray, and electrician salary, and accountant salaries.


Further, as far as my 401k etc is concerned: it's at 48% of its value 1 year ago. Who is responsible? ME? Obama? No, it is the responsibility of GREEDY FUCKS LIKE YOU, who couldn't just take "A LOT" of income, you had to have "EXCESS".
oh really? How is it my fault, my hysterical friend?

who was managing your 401k? how could i not just take "alot" of income? How could i have taken "excess"?

what are your fund manager's fees? if you are invested in a mutual fund, your fees should be rather small...so why am i the greedy fuck?

why did you invest in the market? You knew there was risk in market fluctuations.

you could have simply put your money in fixed income securities, zero -coupons, or a host of other financial instruments...but you were greedy...you wanted your 401k to grow and grow and grow...you wanted it to make more and more...you invested it hoping for it to grow...

so, was your greed acceptable? you could have been earning a safe 4% or so in tax free munis...but you wanted more...you probably invested in a mutual fund that showed nice gainst of 8% or so per year.

you are just as guilty...

you wanted more than what was on offer...you were not content with simple CD's or simple munis...you had to have more....but when others had to have more, you were against that,

you have some serious mental problems, my friend.

you are bathing in hypocrisy


Oh, speaking of 401k's, when I was in college, we pretty much expected that we would go to work for a company, work there 30-40 years, get a pension and a gold watch (like my grandfather, a bank president).
well, i would say that you "pretty much expecting that" was a rather foolish view to take, don't you? What is it they say about "Assumption"?

Then smart MBA's and Wall Streeters figured out that they could get their finger in bigger pies by cobbling up the 401k program (which worked for liberals too, because that augmented Social Security, which they then raided to pay for other social programs). 401k was NEVER intended to REPLACE retirement programs/Social Security, it was intended to AUGMENT them. Of course, the greedy fucks in the Executive Suites (also used to be me) thought that was just great, now we can exit pensions altogether and be "lean and mean", and let people DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES what kind of pension they'd like. What a load of crap!
thankfully we had such a smarty-pants like you looking out for all of us.
Speaking of the bankruptcy laws, isn't it convenient that you people are championing them, now that you've gerrymandered them to favor credit card issuers (which hurts the middle and lower classes), instead of providing a "fresh start" to people who lose their jobs while corporate executives get huge bonuses?
"you people"? just who are you referring to? I know it is interesting for you to fly off on a tangent, but the only thing i am championing, is that when a corporation files for bankruptcy, that the banruptcy laws are followed to repay the creditors who loaned money in good faith, knew the risks they took and did so with the knowledge that should things go wrong, they were entitled to certain legal provisions under bankruptcy filings to recoup part of their investment.

i know you did not want to talk about that, since it is the topic we are actually discussing and all, but hey, why not go off on a rant about credit cards while you are at it?

makes perfect sense.


We are TIRED of YOU.
LOL...who is we? The slightly insane, over 50, MBA possessing, yet still totally loopy, ranters lobby?

at least you did not mention George W. Bush though, so i guess i can handle it.

take a rest before you burst a blood vessel. :smile:
 
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Flashy, it just proves on and on how messed up our political system really is. Both sides do nothing buy put their collective heads in the sand while pointing and saying "we messed up but they messed up worse".

It's a joke, and people that stand by their party regardless of what is goin gone are as well. The mess we find ourselves in has been created by both sides of the aisle and until people wake up and realize that things will never "change".

I'm just glad my little world isn't all that hindered regardless of who is in office, watching everyone attack each other while the floor drops out is somewhat entertaining, I can honestly say I haven't voted for anyone that has been screwing up for years and years now....
 

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On Obama's tactics in the Chrysler mess and soon the GM mess.

I am curious why some people here, who have rightfully in the past raised questions about the BUSH/Cheney administration and its questionable ties and behavior to companies like Haliburton, are not going absolutely berserk, as President Obama, has threatened and utterly destroyed bondholders, notably *SECURED LENDERS* the backbone of our financial system, not to mention castigated them publicly, since they are standing up for their investors, while Obama steers that money to the UAW becoming a majority owner in Chrysler.

I am just curious, from our friends here, who hang on his every word, what they think about Obama criticizing *SECURED LENDERS*, people who invest in this nation, for looking out for their investors, while he screws them over to look after his political supporters, i.e. UAW.

I hope people realize, that the President, who is hopeful of getting lenders, investors, fund managers, et. al to buy up the troubled assets that are weighing our system down, is now publicly castigating, threatening and humiliating, unjustly, the same people who can buy up all those troubled assets.

so why, now, with a president who publicly humiliates you, threatens you, has now shown he will screw you over financially if you lend to secure these troubled assets, if it is beneficial to his supporters, will people go about doing that now?

He has just made an enemy of a 1.5 trillion dollar industry, (hedge funds) which he needs to buy up all this toxic debt...so why now, will they do that, when has now shown he will screw them financially, and publicly destroy them if things do not go well?

Frankly, i disagree with Obama on many things...policy wise...but i did not find many of the things he did to be loathsome or objectionable...i merely disagreed strongly with him...but this current behavior, is absolutely crazy, not to mention, incredibly stupid.

I spoke with about 100-150 friends, former colleagues, and relatives, via phone and email over the last day or so...all of whom are involved in hedge funds, many of whom voted for Obama...the current feeling ranged from disbelief, to utter hatred...but the most common theme was, "fuck him if he thinks we are buying up anything in TARP now".

I would highly recommend reading this article, by Cliff Asness, who manages a 20 billion dollar hedge fund, and happens to be very brilliant...so some ofy ou can understand just what is happening, and what is going on behind the sscenes of this mess in the autoindustry...

the president is effectively screwing over lenders and shareholders, for far less then what they could get in bankruptcy court, so he can effectively hand control of the company to the UAW, and then he is demonizing the lenders publicly for being greedy and not "sacrificing" their investors' money, to give it to the UAW.

If there is *ANYONE* here who can justify this move on the part of Obama, which has *NOTHING* to do with the GOP, so let us not get into another republican/democrat spat, i'd like to hear the reasoning behind this move.

Since Cliff Asness has said it better than i could, i would ask that you read the article, then comment.

here is the first paragraph, and then the link

Unafraid In Greenwich Connecticut
Clifford S. Asness
Managing and Founding Principal
AQR Capital Management, LLC

The President has just harshly castigated hedge fund managers for being unwilling to take his administration’s bid for their Chrysler bonds. He called them “speculators” who were “refusing to sacrifice like everyone else” and who wanted “to hold out for the prospect of an unjustified taxpayer-funded bailout.”

The responses of hedge fund managers have been, appropriately, outrage, but generally have been anonymous for fear of going on the record against a powerful President (an exception, though still in the form of a “group letter”, was the superb note from “The Committee of Chrysler Non-TARP Lenders” some of the points of which I echo here, and a relatively few firms, like Oppenheimer, that have publicly defended themselves). Furthermore, one by one the managers and banks are said to be caving to the President’s wishes out of justifiable fear.....

I run an approximately twenty billion dollar money management firm that offers hedge funds as well as public mutual funds and unhedged traditional investments. My company is not involved in the Chrysler situation, but I am still aghast at the President's comments (of course these are my own views not those of my company).


Hedge Funds Outraged At Obama Bullying But Also Cowering In Fear

Don't Sheep make alot of noise?
 

SpeedoMike

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when yur being raped, aren't people supposed to sit back and enjoy it? as commoners realize their retirement nest eggs and investments are about gone, they will begin to wake up. Obama's extremism is rapidly destroying the financial structure of this country with his idea of balanced non-deficit spending. there are already a lot fewer people making over $250,000 who can have their taxes raised. I'm essentially indigent, being on social security disability, so I'll just watch everybody else's ships sink. but I suppose my social security will soon be compromised. anyone friends of Pelosi and Frank? I wouldn't admit it!!
 

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Funny.

Eminent Domain during the Bush administration was used over and over again to remove people from their homes so greedy land developers can build more shopping malls.

So the government used Eminent Domain in an entirely new way to take people's lands -- I saw no outcry from any of the Republicans.

Also, always saying that the Government can't run anything, or can't do anything very well... don't know very much. Ask your Grandmother when the last time her Social Security checks were late. We have the best military in the world. The IRS is very good at finding and collecting taxes.

The Republicans always roll out the "Government is not good at running things" argument... but it is really "Republicans are not good at running things."
 

Phil Ayesho

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Interesting observation - especially considering his entire Cabinet is comprised of ex Wall Street executives.

This asshole is making a very dangerous precedent with this move.

Star- your white supramaslip is showing...


Whether you like his policies or not, nothing he has done would really qualify him as an "asshole".
He is not LYING to congress and the public in order to get us into a war with the wrong people, is he?

No.

He's not giving a trilliojn dollars to the wall streeters with no strings attached like Bush did is he?
No.

Ergo, he may be mistaken in his actions, but he is not being underhanded, obfuscatory, nor patently criminal... He is not blithely undermining the constitution, either...

So, he is demonstrably a guy of good conscience who is doing what he believes to be right within the scope of the law.
Not an asshole...



Your use of the word undercuts any position you might take as you reveal that your complaints are not based in reason, nor in policy, nor in results... but are in fact predicated upon pure dislike.

Your bigotry against liberals and thinly veiled racism toward blacks are not valid critiques of the president's actions.



For example... I have said a lot of shit critical of Bush... But it was not based upon his party, nor his persona...
My critiques were predicated upon his ACTIONS and their ethical bankruptcy... they were based upon his FAILURE to effect smaller government, his failure to show fiscal responsibility, his failure to respond effectively to crises, and his clear disregard for the needs of the American electorate in favor of the board members of major corporations.


But you... have nothing to point to in critique of Obama other than his success at slowing the economic decline, his rapid and thus far effective response, and his proven ability to restore US prestige abroad.
 

D_Marazion Analdouche

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Also, always saying that the Government can't run anything, or can't do anything very well... don't know very much. Ask your Grandmother when the last time her Social Security checks were late. We have the best military in the world. The IRS is very good at finding and collecting taxes.

1) Social Security, "Thanks for paying decades of taxes, here is your parting gift you can't but crap with."

2) The Military is the best in the world because of the millions of people that have been drafted or volunteered for it, not the government.

3) The IRS actually is horrible at finding and collecting taxes, that is why they prey on people that cannot fight back.

Three pretty poor examples to prove a point....and by the way I'm not Republican. The failures of our government should exceed everyones expectations regardless of party, finger pointing based on the left or right is going to just make things worse, neither side has it right. Just one big empty void of promises and good public speaking with no substance behind any of it.
 

Qua

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Funny.

Eminent Domain during the Bush administration was used over and over again to remove people from their homes so greedy land developers can build more shopping malls.

So the government used Eminent Domain in an entirely new way to take people's lands -- I saw no outcry from any of the Republicans.

There was. There still is. Please note that the eminent domain ruling was passed by the left-leaning Supreme Court justices.