The Silence here is deafening...

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Flashy, May 6, 2009.

  1. Flashy

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    On Obama's tactics in the Chrysler mess and soon the GM mess.

    I am curious why some people here, who have rightfully in the past raised questions about the BUSH/Cheney administration and its questionable ties and behavior to companies like Haliburton, are not going absolutely berserk, as President Obama, has threatened and utterly destroyed bondholders, notably *SECURED LENDERS* the backbone of our financial system, not to mention castigated them publicly, since they are standing up for their investors, while Obama steers that money to the UAW becoming a majority owner in Chrysler.

    I am just curious, from our friends here, who hang on his every word, what they think about Obama criticizing *SECURED LENDERS*, people who invest in this nation, for looking out for their investors, while he screws them over to look after his political supporters, i.e. UAW.

    I hope people realize, that the President, who is hopeful of getting lenders, investors, fund managers, et. al to buy up the troubled assets that are weighing our system down, is now publicly castigating, threatening and humiliating, unjustly, the same people who can buy up all those troubled assets.

    so why, now, with a president who publicly humiliates you, threatens you, has now shown he will screw you over financially if you lend to secure these troubled assets, if it is beneficial to his supporters, will people go about doing that now?

    He has just made an enemy of a 1.5 trillion dollar industry, (hedge funds) which he needs to buy up all this toxic debt...so why now, will they do that, when has now shown he will screw them financially, and publicly destroy them if things do not go well?

    Frankly, i disagree with Obama on many things...policy wise...but i did not find many of the things he did to be loathsome or objectionable...i merely disagreed strongly with him...but this current behavior, is absolutely crazy, not to mention, incredibly stupid.

    I spoke with about 100-150 friends, former colleagues, and relatives, via phone and email over the last day or so...all of whom are involved in hedge funds, many of whom voted for Obama...the current feeling ranged from disbelief, to utter hatred...but the most common theme was, "fuck him if he thinks we are buying up anything in TARP now".

    I would highly recommend reading this article, by Cliff Asness, who manages a 20 billion dollar hedge fund, and happens to be very brilliant...so some ofy ou can understand just what is happening, and what is going on behind the sscenes of this mess in the autoindustry...

    the president is effectively screwing over lenders and shareholders, for far less then what they could get in bankruptcy court, so he can effectively hand control of the company to the UAW, and then he is demonizing the lenders publicly for being greedy and not "sacrificing" their investors' money, to give it to the UAW.

    If there is *ANYONE* here who can justify this move on the part of Obama, which has *NOTHING* to do with the GOP, so let us not get into another republican/democrat spat, i'd like to hear the reasoning behind this move.

    Since Cliff Asness has said it better than i could, i would ask that you read the article, then comment.

    here is the first paragraph, and then the link

    Unafraid In Greenwich Connecticut
    Clifford S. Asness
    Managing and Founding Principal
    AQR Capital Management, LLC

    The President has just harshly castigated hedge fund managers for being unwilling to take his administration’s bid for their Chrysler bonds. He called them “speculators” who were “refusing to sacrifice like everyone else” and who wanted “to hold out for the prospect of an unjustified taxpayer-funded bailout.”

    The responses of hedge fund managers have been, appropriately, outrage, but generally have been anonymous for fear of going on the record against a powerful President (an exception, though still in the form of a “group letter”, was the superb note from “The Committee of Chrysler Non-TARP Lenders” some of the points of which I echo here, and a relatively few firms, like Oppenheimer, that have publicly defended themselves). Furthermore, one by one the managers and banks are said to be caving to the President’s wishes out of justifiable fear.....


    I run an approximately twenty billion dollar money management firm that offers hedge funds as well as public mutual funds and unhedged traditional investments. My company is not involved in the Chrysler situation, but I am still aghast at the President's comments (of course these are my own views not those of my company).


    Hedge Funds Outraged At Obama Bullying But Also Cowering In Fear
     
  2. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    This is one example where Obama's blatant lying and pandering can't be window-dressed with the typical public relations machine back-handed trickery and brainwashing his herd of sheep.

    A knockout punch to the very essence of capitalism

    Blatant pandering, whoring himself out to union constituents

    Completely fucking a group he was begging for help a short time ago

    This 'sacrifice like the rest of us' bullshit is so Obama it gives me a gag reflex

    Simply showing his true colors of backhanded pandering, stupidity, betrayal, deception and political prostitution.
     
  3. faceking

    faceking Active Member

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    I'm actually seeing rhetoric around "we need more government control, I don't mind it at all". Think they are just the crowd that believes this guy will do and can do absolutely no wrong. Reminds of ppl saying they didn't mind paying more taxes.
     
  4. MH07

    MH07 Member

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    I think he's doing a great job. Doing exactly what needs to be done.

    Wall Streeters: as Obama mentioned the other day, he is the one standing between you and the mob with torches and pitchforks.

    That means there are many of us ready to confiscate your personal property and use it to pay off the people you've fucked over. Many of us are tired of financial institutions getting bailed out while we file for bankruptcy because financial industry fatcats are getting their golden parachutes and bailouts and parachuting peacefully into the sunset, while we starve to death in the dark.

    Do you get that? No, you fucking Bushwads do not.

    You'd better be glad Obama is there.
     
    #4 MH07, May 6, 2009
    Last edited: May 6, 2009
  5. Flashy

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    I wouldn't say he is stupid, Star...i just think he has no fundamental understanding of business and markets, which is unsurprising due to his mostly academic/legal/community based history...

    but this behavior is really rather unseemly, not to mention totally devious and certainly "Un-Obama-like", in terms of how he has attempted to portray himself as a uniter, not a divider, and a forward thinker willing to listen to all sides.

    he essentially is throwing over our nations well-established bankruptcy laws, under the aegis of executive power. He has no legal right to do this, and, hopefully if people are not intimidated, it will be taken to court.

    he has no legal right to strike down legal obligations regarding debt.
     
  6. Qua

    Qua
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    Not a bad point. Cept that it leaves Obama in a power brokerage position that many of us feel he is abusing and misusing. And there isn't much we can do about it except go along, lest the pitchforks reign supreme. Nasty Catch-22
     
  7. Flashy

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    #7 Flashy, May 6, 2009
    Last edited: May 6, 2009
  8. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    Interesting observation - especially considering his entire Cabinet is comprised of ex Wall Street executives.

    This asshole is making a very dangerous precedent with this move.
     
  9. MH07

    MH07 Member

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    First, my argument was rhetorical. I am well-versed in the law and the Constitution (which you morons managed to disregard for 8 years under your MBA hero).

    I am also very familiar with operations in places like the Cayman Islands, Bermuda, etc. where Wall Street and wealthy individuals go to hide income from U. S. Taxes (and why they do it). I have to pay MY taxes, and so do you.

    You really can't talk about the law and the Constitution and power grabs, can you? Because then we would have to talk about George W. Bush and "that damn piece of paper", which you SUDDENLY seem to have DISCOVERED and now CHERISH---when you have done nothing but run roughshod over it for the past 8 years.

    Google "Halliburton" if you want to know about breaking laws and cronieism.

    I have an MBA. I used to buy into all the bullshit you're spouting.

    I no longer believe in unfettered capitalism. Period. I think more government regulation of business is in order. I think there should be government-mandated caps on executive salary, and I am a firm advocate of eliminating tax loopholes for corporations and rich people. Ride's over, pay up.

    Further, as far as my 401k etc is concerned: it's at 48% of its value 1 year ago. Who is responsible? ME? Obama? No, it is the responsibility of GREEDY FUCKS LIKE YOU, who couldn't just take "A LOT" of income, you had to have "EXCESS".

    Oh, speaking of 401k's, when I was in college, we pretty much expected that we would go to work for a company, work there 30-40 years, get a pension and a gold watch (like my grandfather, a bank president). Then smart MBA's and Wall Streeters figured out that they could get their finger in bigger pies by cobbling up the 401k program (which worked for liberals too, because that augmented Social Security, which they then raided to pay for other social programs). 401k was NEVER intended to REPLACE retirement programs/Social Security, it was intended to AUGMENT them. Of course, the greedy fucks in the Executive Suites (also used to be me) thought that was just great, now we can exit pensions altogether and be "lean and mean", and let people DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES what kind of pension they'd like. What a load of crap!

    Speaking of the bankruptcy laws, isn't it convenient that you people are championing them, now that you've gerrymandered them to favor credit card issuers (which hurts the middle and lower classes), instead of providing a "fresh start" to people who lose their jobs while corporate executives get huge bonuses?

    We are TIRED of YOU.
     
  10. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    They 'go there to hide income?'

    fraid not.

    I think the commute from the Caymans to Wall Street everyday would be a little onerous.

    If you stick a pile of money in a foreign bank to avoid paying taxes on interest income you are taking a huge risk with your money.


    And what company was more suited, capable and equipped to provide the services rendered in the Middle East than Halliburton?

    What is 'bullshit' about believing the President shouldn't be circumventing bankruptcy laws?

    The mortgage crisis was a disaster with many responsible parties. Labeling anyone and everyone as a 'greedy fuck' because they are involved in finance is ignorant and asinine.

    401(k) simply put the control of retirement into the hands of employees, instead of employers. Its about taking personal responsibility; and its an exponentially superior way to plan for retirement than dinosaur pension plans.

    If you are so hyped up about pensions, go talk to a retired pilot from Delta - whose pension income got cut by 60% after the Delta pension was taken over by the PBGC after the pension plan imploded.

    and we of you.
     
  11. Flashy

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    #11 Flashy, May 6, 2009
    Last edited: May 6, 2009
  12. D_Marazion Analdouche

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    Flashy, it just proves on and on how messed up our political system really is. Both sides do nothing buy put their collective heads in the sand while pointing and saying "we messed up but they messed up worse".

    It's a joke, and people that stand by their party regardless of what is goin gone are as well. The mess we find ourselves in has been created by both sides of the aisle and until people wake up and realize that things will never "change".

    I'm just glad my little world isn't all that hindered regardless of who is in office, watching everyone attack each other while the floor drops out is somewhat entertaining, I can honestly say I haven't voted for anyone that has been screwing up for years and years now....
     
  13. houtx48

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    If government runs business like they run government then god help us. period end of story.
     
  14. rubirosa

    rubirosa Active Member

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    Don't Sheep make alot of noise?
     
  15. SpeedoMike

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    when yur being raped, aren't people supposed to sit back and enjoy it? as commoners realize their retirement nest eggs and investments are about gone, they will begin to wake up. Obama's extremism is rapidly destroying the financial structure of this country with his idea of balanced non-deficit spending. there are already a lot fewer people making over $250,000 who can have their taxes raised. I'm essentially indigent, being on social security disability, so I'll just watch everybody else's ships sink. but I suppose my social security will soon be compromised. anyone friends of Pelosi and Frank? I wouldn't admit it!!
     
  16. HazelGod

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    :lmao:

    Yes, and it was Captain Smith's actions at the helm that night that sank the Titanic, too... :rolleyes:
     
  17. mikeyh9in

    mikeyh9in Active Member

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    Funny.

    Eminent Domain during the Bush administration was used over and over again to remove people from their homes so greedy land developers can build more shopping malls.

    So the government used Eminent Domain in an entirely new way to take people's lands -- I saw no outcry from any of the Republicans.

    Also, always saying that the Government can't run anything, or can't do anything very well... don't know very much. Ask your Grandmother when the last time her Social Security checks were late. We have the best military in the world. The IRS is very good at finding and collecting taxes.

    The Republicans always roll out the "Government is not good at running things" argument... but it is really "Republicans are not good at running things."
     
  18. Phil Ayesho

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    Star- your white supramaslip is showing...


    Whether you like his policies or not, nothing he has done would really qualify him as an "asshole".
    He is not LYING to congress and the public in order to get us into a war with the wrong people, is he?

    No.

    He's not giving a trilliojn dollars to the wall streeters with no strings attached like Bush did is he?
    No.

    Ergo, he may be mistaken in his actions, but he is not being underhanded, obfuscatory, nor patently criminal... He is not blithely undermining the constitution, either...

    So, he is demonstrably a guy of good conscience who is doing what he believes to be right within the scope of the law.
    Not an asshole...



    Your use of the word undercuts any position you might take as you reveal that your complaints are not based in reason, nor in policy, nor in results... but are in fact predicated upon pure dislike.

    Your bigotry against liberals and thinly veiled racism toward blacks are not valid critiques of the president's actions.



    For example... I have said a lot of shit critical of Bush... But it was not based upon his party, nor his persona...
    My critiques were predicated upon his ACTIONS and their ethical bankruptcy... they were based upon his FAILURE to effect smaller government, his failure to show fiscal responsibility, his failure to respond effectively to crises, and his clear disregard for the needs of the American electorate in favor of the board members of major corporations.


    But you... have nothing to point to in critique of Obama other than his success at slowing the economic decline, his rapid and thus far effective response, and his proven ability to restore US prestige abroad.
     
  19. D_Marazion Analdouche

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    1) Social Security, "Thanks for paying decades of taxes, here is your parting gift you can't but crap with."

    2) The Military is the best in the world because of the millions of people that have been drafted or volunteered for it, not the government.

    3) The IRS actually is horrible at finding and collecting taxes, that is why they prey on people that cannot fight back.

    Three pretty poor examples to prove a point....and by the way I'm not Republican. The failures of our government should exceed everyones expectations regardless of party, finger pointing based on the left or right is going to just make things worse, neither side has it right. Just one big empty void of promises and good public speaking with no substance behind any of it.
     
  20. Qua

    Qua
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    There was. There still is. Please note that the eminent domain ruling was passed by the left-leaning Supreme Court justices.
     
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