The "Star Spangled Banner" in Spanish?

dong20

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madame_zora said:
We come to a continent, disrupt their entire social structure, kill them with our diseases, murder the rest, import slaves, all in the name of "freedom", but only for white landowners THEN insist that OUR language THAT WE BROUGHT WITH US FROM FUCKING ENGLAND is the "native language" that everyone ELSE coming here must speak.

And it wasnt even ours...we had it foisted on us. If it wasn't for some chance alliances and a few rich folk in the SE of England we could have ended up with French so it's not all bad.:tongue:

madame_zora said:
We refuse to learn other languages, and we're really far too stupid. When I was in Spain, most people there could speak at least two languages, often three or more, not just the geniuses! You know what else? Speaking my idiot level Spanish got me around because people were NICE to me and helped me out. We don't do that here, we have this selfish egotistical attitude that everyone should have to complete five years of English to enter the country. Well, I HAVE taken five years of Spanish, but I never use it so I don't remember it. It comes back when I'm immersed in the language, at least to a degree, but people helping me is what made the difference. If you could speak Spanish, French, German or English, you could get around. Im Morocco, street signs were in sometimes as many as seven languages! But America- land of the stupid- we can't be bothered to accomodate anyone who isn't Merkin. We are buffoons. The rest of the world knows it, we're the ones who haven't gotten the letter in the mail.

Give yourselves a break, I'd have to say the UK is as rabidly Xenophobic about other languages as the US. In fact I have found most countries with English as a national or de facto language have similar attitudes and I've been to many of them. My Spanish was great after spending a year in South and Central America but these days?....Travelling in Europe these days I feel the same as you a linguistic anachranism and after leaving school I spoke close to fluent German and French as well. I tried to learn Arabic but it kind of exploded my head. Same with Mandarin. I try to learn at least a passable amount of the local tongue wherever I am but soon forget most of it. The global trend toward learning English encourages us to sit back and wait for them to come to us..linguistically speaking.

I find languages fascinating I just wish my capacity to learn them was what it used to be. I said it before I do think anyone living in a country should learn the predominant language(s) if only for practical reasons. Beyond that if someone wants to sing our national Anthem in whatever language they want (even Klingon..thanks Shad24) if I feel anything I should be flattered not insulted that they took the trouble to both learn and translate it let alone sing it.

Star Spangled Banner in spanish?

In the 15 mins it took me to write this post nearly 500 people (mostly Children) starved to death, 15 children died of HIV/AIDS and another 15 became infected.

Those getting hot under the collar on this issue and the linguistic legacy of America's brutal past should step back and gain a little perspective. Oh and lest we trivialise, 150000 McDonalds hamburgers were sold in the same period!
 

Gisella

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dong20 said:
Not being American I'm not even close to considering skirting round the edges of thinking about giving a tinkers cuss..... And the same goes for our national Anthem.

I do feel than residents of a country should learn the lingua franca for day to day life but if they also choose to sing allegiance to their nation in their native tongue what does it matter and who gets hurt?

Hell if Spanish causes issues if it were translated and sung in Arabic or Farsi there'd probably be civil unrest....:tongue:

:tongue: I took your thread Dong because we both are not American...

I think and many people in this world may have notice that Americans are very patriotics, they love their flag and etc...they give this impression at least used too when you live outside the USA.

Dont know % of them are this way plus many important dates and etc they are decorated with red,white and blue and etc...we at least in Brazil recognize that Americans make beautiful and very organized parades, they love their flags and are very pround to be Americans.

Immigration Reforms are on the way, many people are taking sides and etc...dont think that is right to the majority of illegal immigrant population that are Mexican, have the right (or is wise) to provoke sentiments of anger by doing what they are doing about the American National Anthemn...at this moment of reforms...

There is a very different historic relationship between Mexico and the USA that are neighboors than the rest of the other nations immigrants...they are neighboors with an open border that come and go, they had issues with territories and etc...(and terrible that i heard that are some who things that mexicans want take the territory back?:rolleyes: )

Dont know much about this things - but as a legal immigrant non spanish speaking and etc...i find carry flags from original country while you are hoping to become citzens (or whatever) singing a national anthemn not in its original tongue...in this especific situation of the moment very much unwise ideia and not sensitive to the american "extra" patriot heart....

Mexicans and other Spanish speaking have to remember that because they are majority of illegal immigrants they are kind of representing by their actions many other nations of immigrants- they have to remember that...:rolleyes:
 

dong20

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Gisella said:
:tongue: I took your thread Dong because we both are not American...

Indeed...it makes us more objective!

Gisella said:
I think and many people in this world may have notice that Americans are very patriotics, they love their flag and etc...they give this impression at least used too when you live outside the USA.

Dont know % of them are this way plus many important dates and etc they are decorated with red,white and blue and etc...we at least in Brazil recognize that Americans make beautiful and very organized parades, they love their flags and are very pround to be Americans.

Intense patriotism is something I admire about Americans but patriotism for your birth nation doesn't stop at the borders of your adopted one. You illustrated in this by referring to Americans in Brazil..are Brazilians offended by this? I don't think so.

Chinese new year celebrations are an example of this it's something Americans and Chinese enjoy, the same in the UK and nobody is insulted. Celebrating the traditions of the various cultures within our countries keeps them both vibrant. We shouldn't forget our own of course...4th of July/St. Georges Day for example. I would say that there is a tendency to downplay our own traditions for fear of being non 'PC'....and that is insane.

Gisella said:
Immigration Reforms are on the way, many people are taking sides and etc...dont think that is right to the majority of illegal immigrant population that are Mexican, have the right (or is wise) to provoke sentiments of anger by doing what they are doing about the American National Anthemn...at this moment of reforms...

America needs Mexican and other immigrants as much as they need America, I don't think translating the National Anthem into into a language spoken by about 15% of the population is unreasonable, especially in a nation that prides iteself on it's tolerance and free speech. As a legal immigrant you now have the right to avail yourself of those freedoms.

Gisella said:
There is a very different historic relationship between Mexico and the USA that are neighboors than the rest of the other nations immigrants...they are neighboors with an open border that come and go, they had issues with territories and etc...(and terrible that i heard that are some who things that mexicans want take the territory back?:rolleyes: )

Well as you know Arizona, California, Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico and Utah were once part of Mexico and taken by force so they may have a historical point. But I don't think Mexico is going to invade though!

Gisella said:
Dont know much about this things - but as a legal immigrant non spanish speaking and etc...i find carry flags from original country while you are hoping to become citzens (or whatever) singing a national anthemn not in its original tongue...in this especific situation of the moment very much unwise ideia and not sensitive to the american "extra" patriot heart....

Yes, immigrants should learn the predominant Language and yes they should learn the National Anthem in that language. What I am saying is I can't see the wrong in also learning it your native language. It's a logical extension to US Government forms translated into Spanish for example, it's part of business as usual. Insisting on a Spanish Language pledge would probably be a step too far and would certainly cause offense. In the UK we know have a citizenship 'pledge' where a demonstration of knowledge of English customs and language skills are tested.

Gisella said:
Mexicans and other Spanish speaking have to remember that because they are majority of illegal immigrants they are kind of representing by their actions many other nations of immigrants- they have to remember that...:rolleyes:

You are right, and I have little tolerance for people who come to my country to live and then insult or try to change it's culture simply because they prefer what they had back home. I don't think that's what is happening here..but I agree it's not smart to bite the hand that feeds you.:smile:
 

B_cricketsliar

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madame_zora said:
I wanna fuck you like an animal.


Am I the only one here who supports this idea? Do any of you stupid fuckers realise that we are probably the only civilised country that isn't already multi-lingual? What's arrogant is US, it's even our fucking name!

We come to a continent, disrupt their entire social structure, kill them with our diseases, murder the rest, import slaves, all in the name of "freedom", but only for white landowners THEN insist that OUR language THAT WE BROUGHT WITH US FROM FUCKING ENGLAND is the "native language" that everyone ELSE coming here must speak.

We refuse to learn other languages, and we're really far too stupid. When I was in Spain, most people there could speak at least two languages, often three or more, not just the geniuses! You know what else? Speaking my idiot level Spanish got me around because people were NICE to me and helped me out. We don't do that here, we have this selfish egotistical attitude that everyone should have to complete five years of English to enter the country. Well, I HAVE taken five years of Spanish, but I never use it so I don't remember it. It comes back when I'm immersed in the language, at least to a degree, but people helping me is what made the difference. If you could speak Spanish, French, German or English, you could get around. Im Morocco, street signs were in sometimes as many as seven languages! But America- land of the stupid- we can't be bothered to accomodate anyone who isn't Merkin. We are buffoons. The rest of the world knows it, we're the ones who haven't gotten the letter in the mail.

Are we really worried about this? You bet your sweet ass we are. You have to pick a stupid topic for stupid people to get mad about. They don't understand the more complex stuff, so keep in simple.

Nice to Chat again Madame Zora!

I don't think it is necessary to insult the person whom started this thread or the people who participate in this thread by saying their strong feelings on this issue make them stupid. If you choose Madame Zora, we could talk about the proliferation of Street gangs in Urban America, and the concommitant increase in gun violence affecting families in the hood. We could talk about the role of China and Chad in the ongoing political conflict between Arab and Black factions in Darfur. We could talk about the recent incidents of Racial unrest between Neo-Nazi/White Supremicist groups and Black's in Ohio. Or we could talk about Geico's movement to use attainment of undergraduate/graduate degrees as factor in determining the rate of Car Insurance in New Jersey?
 

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I think that this is quite possibly the most retarded thing ever! I dont like the original to begin with, but for it to be changed is even worse. I am ashamed to be hispanic right now. I can understand wanting a better life and all that jazz, but with all these people crying injustice, and going on tv crying and screaming they are going about things in the wrong way.
 

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I'm still having a hard time believing people are actually getting worked up about this. There is no threat whatsoever in the translation of a fucking song, for christ's sake. I mean, WTF??? Is anyone being forced to learn a word of spanish (god forbid)? Has a law been changed? Anyone at all concretely harmed in any way, however miniscule?

People need to get over themselves. This is narrow provincialism, crass chauvinism and jingoistic groupthink at its most petty and ridiculous. The fact that people allow themselves to fall into a flag-waving conflict mindset over an issue this miniscule represents to me the exact same reason the human race will continue to fight horrific wars over race, religion and other ridiculous shit for generations to come.

EDIT: This was not directed at the last few posters! I started typing my rant before they had posted, haha.
 

B_cricketsliar

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Matthew said:
I'm still having a hard time believing people are actually getting worked up about this. There is no threat whatsoever in the translation of a fucking song, for christ's sake. I mean, WTF??? Is anyone being forced to learn a word of spanish (god forbid)? Has a law been changed? Anyone at all concretely harmed in any way, however miniscule?

People need to get over themselves. This is narrow provincialism, crass chauvinism and jingoistic groupthink at its most petty and ridiculous. The fact that people allow themselves to fall into a flag-waving conflict mindset over an issue this miniscule represents to me the exact same reason the human race will continue to fight horrific wars over race, religion and other ridiculous shit for generations to come.

EDIT: This was not directed at the last few posters! I started typing my rant before they had posted, haha.

At least you can make a explicit statement as to whom your comments are, or are not directed towards. Madame Zora prefers to be coy when slinging her shit, highlighting certain key phrases to mimic my style, and also communicate that the message that she regards my opinion on the subject as "simple". I've told Madame Zora before, that if she takes issue with opinion I have expressed, she should address me directly, otherwise- it is simply too common to respect.

peace matthew!
 

DC_DEEP

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Hah, if any of you think USA is language-arrogant, visit le Province du Quebec. Or at least google "la loi du langue quebecois". (Sorry I did not take the time to switch to my french keyboard for the appropriate letters...)

Ya know, it does not really like ya know sever any of my limbs or cause renal failure or whatever if someone wants to play with that particular song. My concern is not even really with immigrants, per se. Where I do take issue is when there are immigrants here, illegally or undocumented, who are not paying taxes on their earnings but are soaking up social services dollars. Dammit, it really just pisses me off when someone comes here, earns some money tax-free, and sends it out of country, then goes and gets treated at the local hospital, free of charge, because they "cannot afford to pay." Then there are veterans and senior citizens who cannot get health care that they need. It is just sickening. Then the health-care industry, citing all the charity care they provide, raise costs for those of us who HAVE to pay. They somehow get their children into the public schools, but are not paying taxes which FUND those schools. Women cross the border illegally just before childbirth, so that their child can "claim" legal citizenship and then there won't be deportations. There is an immigration process - not perfect, but it is there, and should be used by those who want to participate in this economy.

Back to the language issue - if they come here, they SHOULD learn the language. I'm not saying abandon their native language. It is not an either/or situation. Uh, you shouldn't expect to go to Gallaudet University without learning ASL, you shouldn't expect to live in Paris without learning French, you shouldn't expect to move to the US without learning English. Not a difficult concept, is it?
 

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Congress officially designated it the National Anthem on March 3rd 1931. but it was written over 100 years before that .


Oh Say can you see
by the dawns early light
what so proudly we hail
at the twilights last gleaming

Whose broad strips and bright stars
through the perilious fight
Ore the ramparts we watch
were so galantly streaming

and the rocks red glare
the bombs bursting in air
gave proof to the night
that our flag was still there

O say does that star spangled banner yet wave
or'e the land of the free and the home of the brave

Read Francis Scott Keys entire poem here
http://www.miketodd.net/encyc/anthtext.htm
remember this is from the ear,g 17th century and they spoke very differently then. Its said he wrote this while watching the actually battle taking place.
 

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Man, have I been avoiding this thread.

I agree with Matthew--this is not as intense as people's blood pressure would suggest. This is one of those issues that is thrown out there to get "patriots" worked up and angry at immigrants so that politiicans can further their real agendas.

There are a lot of issues colluding here:
  1. The US should try to raise a global-minded citizenry that can speak more than a single language. We go to other nations and expect THEM to speak US English. That is beyond obnoxious.
  2. Immigrants should learn the national language for full assimilation. This would not seem so ridiculous (expecting others to know 2 languages) if Americans, on average spoke more than just English (See point #1 for more).
  3. It's just a fucking SONG and not even a well written one or fairly singable one at that. I stand for it, but guess what? I don't cross my heart and I don't sing it. I never have and I never will.
Keep it in proper context.
 

SpeedoGuy

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Deno said:
...and the rocks red glare...

I think you mean rockets' red glare.

As for me, I don't care much for The Star Spangled Banner as our anthem. I'd prefer to see it changed to "America the Beautiful" instead. Better melody and easier to sing. Wasn't there once a movement to officially change it?
 

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Lex said:
Man, have I been avoiding this thread.

I agree with Matthew--this is not as intense as people's blood pressure would suggest. This is one of those issues that is thrown out there to get "patriots" worked up and angry at immigrants so that politiicans can further their real agendas.

There are a lot of issues colluding here:
  1. The US should try to raise a global-minded citizenry that can speak more than a single language. We go to other nations and expect THEM to speak US English. That is beyond obnoxious.
  2. Immigrants should learn the national language for full assimilation. This would not seem so ridiculous (expecting others to know 2 languages) if Americans, on average spoke more than just English (See point #1 for more).
  3. It's just a fucking SONG and not even a well written one or fairly singable one at that. I stand for it, but guess what? I don't cross my heart and I don't sing it. I never have and I never will.
Keep it in proper context.

Well here is where I start to get shot down. I know it but what the hell.
You are right, we should be able to speak at least 2 languages. But on the other hand, If I were to go over seas again, I wouldnt go to China because I dont speak Chinese. If I did go to China I would learn Chinese.
Lex- You seem like an educated man. Am I right? In the middle of a battle where you are already a prisoner, would you have it together enough to write anything or compose anything? Maybe I am misreading somethings that have been posted in the past but a few people seem to have problems with the Constitution among other things. Do you think you or anyone else could have written these documents today? could you or anyone else have written documents that provide for todays situations as well as making Provisions? (right word?) For any situations that may come up in say 200 years from now? If yes, Why hasnt it been done? I will vote for you
 

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Dr Rock said:
um, try late 18th - as i recall it was written either immediately prior or subsequent to the outbreak of the war of independence. and it's still not a very good poem.

Actually gentlemen,

The "Star Spangled Banner " was written by Francis Scott Key during the war of 1812 from a ship looking at the soot-covered flag waving over Fort McHenry in Baltimore's harbor. I actually get to look at that same flag every day. We are in the process of restoring the old girl to her glory...
 

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Lex said:
Man, have I been avoiding this thread.

I agree with Matthew--this is not as intense as people's blood pressure would suggest. This is one of those issues that is thrown out there to get "patriots" worked up and angry at immigrants so that politiicans can further their real agendas.

True... but it's on both sides I'm afraid. Typical poking-of-the-stick-in-the-hive then the bees (AKA "patriots") look somewhat overzealous in their passion. Odd how something as sacred as the National Anthem gets brought out during the ILLEGAL immigration protests... which I'm not sure why the mainstream media is so afraid of the word ILLEGAL.... sorry to sidetrack.. but

- the legislation is about illegal immigration, what to do, laws going forward, enforcement
- the rallies are about "immigration rights", human rights, and second-class citizenship.

Something suspiciously lost in translation.