The State of Political Dissent in America

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by jason_els, Sep 18, 2007.

  1. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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  2. B_NineInchCock_160IQ

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    Not sure what side to come down on in this one. I hate cops but I also can't say I'm a fan of shouting idiots who won't let go of the microphone and keep insisting someone answer their question but won't shut up long enough for them to do so.
     
  3. rexcasual

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    Jeez. Haven't campus police ever heard of youtube? :confused:

    I'm relieved so many kids have cameras on their persons.

    The taser makes for lazy law enforcement.
     
  4. HazelGod

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    Here are the Senator's remarks on yesterday's debacle:

    In 37 years of public appearances, through wars, protests and highly emotional events, I have never had a dialogue end this way.

    I believe I could have handled the situation without interruption, but again I do not know what warnings or other exchanges transpired between the young man and the police prior to his barging to the front of the line and their intervention.

    I asked the police to allow me to answer the question and was in the process of answering him when he was taken into custody.

    I was not aware that a taser was used until after I left the building. I hope that neither the student nor any of the police were injured.

    I regret enormously that a good healthy discussion was interrupted.
     
  5. SpeedoGuy

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    Is this as simple as it seems?

    The student seemed cocksure and sarcastic but those aren't punishable offenses by any means. He also didn't seem violent or disruptive. However, breaks in the video clip sequence suggested it had been edited to remove some sections.

    Was the student refusing to give up the mike after his question was complete? Was he refusing to give anyone else a chance to speak? Was he vulgar or threatening?
     
  6. D_N Flay Table

    D_N Flay Table New Member

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    God damn I hate the empire of the united states.

    so much for freedom of speech.
     
  7. HazelGod

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    It's obvious from all the videos of the incident that he wasn't threatening. Do any of the other questions you raise matter? Would any or all of them justify the display of force we witnessed?
     
  8. B_NineInchCock_160IQ

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    yes

    yes

    no, just obnoxious and disruptive and refusing to leave when the police told him to do so, then resisting when the police tried to forcibly remove him
     
  9. SpeedoGuy

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    I think the circumstances and context matter. That's why I want to be confident that what we're seeing in the video is the whole story before I make a judgement about what happened. I've been the victim of hoaxes and selective misinformation in the past.

    I'm not defending the police. They may well turn out to be a gang of unprofessional thugs in this case. From what was visible on the video I'm dismayed and angered by what appears to be an excessive over-reaction by at least 5 armed police officers against a solitary student who seemed to be doing nothing more than ask some pointed questions. That certainly does not justify the level of force displayed.

    I'm just not certain that what we're seeing is the whole story.
     
  10. Principessa

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    IMHO, campus security definetely over-reacted. They probably didn't want it to escalate into a physical attack on John Kerry. Perhaps the campus police thought they were doing a pre-emptive strike as the student in question has a history of taping his own practical jokes.

    I did a cut and paste from the CNN site below:
    A university student with a history of taping his own practical jokes was Tasered by campus police and arrested after loudly and repeatedly trying to ask U.S. Senator John Kerry questions during a campus forum. *Snip*
    Videos of the Monday night incident, posted on several Web sites and played repeatedly on television news, show officers pulling Meyer away from the microphone after he asks Kerry about impeaching President Bush and whether he and Bush were both members of the secret society Skull and Bones at Yale University.

    "He apparently asked several questions -- he went on for quite awhile -- then he was asked to stop," university spokesman Steve Orlando said. "He had used his allotted time. His microphone was cut off, then he became upset."

    As two officers take Meyer by the arms, Kerry, D-Massachusetts, can be heard saying, "That's alright, let me answer his question."



    I was thinking the same thing. I'm not sure this is a matter of his constitutional rights being squelched. I think he got tasered because he had set a precedent for pulling disruptive pranks on video in the past.
     
  11. hairyman101

    hairyman101 New Member

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    he was a huge man.....look at the video...he towers over the police. those woman police always make me laugh....pleeeasse.....how in the world would they bring a huge man down without calling on a male cop???? well i guess tasering him would do it. there has been no free speech since the hippies of the 60's and 70's.
     
  12. dreamer20

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    He surely was. It was inconsiderate of him not to let others have their chance to question the guest speaker and his behaviour was appalling, I see that those bits were edited out of the clip in the OP.
     
  13. JustAsking

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    NIC,
    I agree with you. The guy was really disruptive and obnoxious, to wit, the applause when the cops got him away from the mike.

    However, its not clear that tasers were necessary. He is a very big guy and he was clearly not cooperative. But by the time they had him down and outnumbered, it seems gratuitous that they had to taser him.

    Cops will need to learn that it is a YouTube world these days. Don't mess up using excessive force or you will be immortalized by becoming the idiots of the day on YouTube.

    As for suppression of speech, I don't think it applies to disruptive assholes who are clearly trying to prevent normal discourse to continue.
     
  14. JustAsking

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    I agree with you, too, about needing to see the whole story. I don't agree with your comment about the guy doing nothing more than asking pointed questions. It looks like he was asking them repeatedly and in rapid fire giving Kerry no opportunity to answer them. While lots of people were standing in line to get to the mike, he used up his alloted time and was preventing anyone else from asking questions. Did it seem that way to you?

    It was only after the mike was turned off that Kerry was able to say that he would answer the questions.

    Still, tasers are way over the top, I think. The cops used excessive force.
     
  15. SpeedoGuy

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    That part wasn't clear to me from the video. I've certainly seen self-righteous campus zealots (from the left and right) behave that way but the edits in the video clip don't make it clear to me he was repeatedly asking questions.

    I couldn't tell. That's why I wasn't quite sure what was really going down. The breaks in the video clip didn't make it clear to me that he was holding up a line of other forum participants. Rather, the clips just show him asking a few questions then being manhandled away as if he'd been removed simply for the content of his questions rather than the obstruction he may have been creating to the flow of the forum.

    Agreed. At face value, this episode appears to bear all the signs of a poorly trained, overly aggressive force of campus police goons flush with their badges, guns and authority. In my experience, that's not unusual for campus police forces who sometimes consist of personnel too inexperienced or unqualified for city and county law enforcement forces.
     
  16. DC_DEEP

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    Although it has been plastered over the media that they used a taser, technically, it was a stun gun. The terms are often used interchangeablybut there are differences.

    The fact that they used a stun gun was bad enough, but what I found really disturbing was that obviously, the guy actually using the stun gun has had no training at all, and was using it improperly and dangerously. In the video, you could hear several really long "zaps", a couple of seconds each. Properly used, the discharge button should only be tapped - 0.1 to 0.5 seconds at a time.

    And most disturbing was the expression on the fat cop's face. He had a huge smile. He was enjoying it, and I could almost hear him thinking, "COOL! Two years on the job, and I finally get to rough someone up and zap 'em!" Tackling and stun-gunning a disruptive person should not be a cop's evening entertainment.
     
  17. B_NineInchCock_160IQ

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    I agree with everything DC said.
     
  18. Dr. Dilznick

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    I thought it was an obvious stunt that was met with effective resolve and resolution.

    This is what happens when parents let their child prance about, screaming like a grade-A bitch in order not to "inhibit" his or her "expression." I reckon mommy and daddy got their money's worth by sending the kid to college.
     
  19. Dave NoCal

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    The erosion of civil liberties in this country is alarming to me. However, this incidents seems to be more a result of the clash between freedom and people with authoritarian personalities (a strong trait among many of those who chose to go into law enforcement). Of course the two are related.
     
  20. _Alexxx_

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    The land of the free and the home of the brave...

    bullshit!

    that student didn't seem very free

    and those policemen didn't seem to be very brave either, 6vs1 and tasing a handcuffed guy
     
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