The State of Political Dissent in America

frizzle

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The land of the free and the home of the brave...

bullshit!

that student didn't seem very free

and those policemen didn't seem to be very brave either, 6vs1 and tasing a handcuffed guy

Yea well if he had a bomb things would be different wouldn't it?

The law just can't win.
 

jason_els

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What I find interesting is how CNN framed the encounter by saying the student was known for practical jokes. What bearing does this have and who confirmed it? CNN didn't cite a source for that claim. What they did was to immediately, at the front of the story, make a claim designed to impugn the subject's character with no corroboration or explanation as to why characterizing him as such was germane to the story.

Here's a follow-up also posted on CNN:

Campus rumors now circulate that Meyer, known as being a prankster, was simply trying to be obnoxious and get attention at the Kerry speech.

Meyer spent a night in jail on charges of disturbing the peace and resisting an officer. Later, the school's president, Bernard Machen, said two police officers involved were placed on administrative leave.

The first paragraph has no corroborating fact to back the claim, again casting Meyer as someone who wasn't serious.

Is CNN attempting to discredit the subject of its own story thereby discrediting dissenters in general?

The charges themselves are a bit ridiculous. Disturbing whose peace? This was a political event held in an auditorium. Meyer may have been rude and obnoxious but how are bad manners in a venue where loud voices are to be expected during daylight hours, punishable offenses?

Resisting arrest is another issue I have because the police themselves acted to supress the single most precious right we have, political speech. Until the police attempted to remove Meyer, they were peacably assembled. Loud voices engaged in political arguments are constitutionally protected so long as the assembly does not descend into violence. Meyer was illegally silenced and arrested by the police who disagreed with his mode of expressing his freedom of speech.
 

jason_els

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Yea well if he had a bomb things would be different wouldn't it?

The law just can't win.

But he didn't have a bomb. He was in a public venue peaceably assembled to discuss politics. Short of church, no right is more sacred in the constitution of the United States. In case you aren't familiar with it:

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.​

Bush's tsarist and illegal Free Speech Zones not withstanding, this guy had every right in the world to engage in political discourse however heated.
 
D

deleted105034

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The forum was already over when he asked his questions, he wasn't stealing the microphone from anybody. Kerry was going to take extra time to answer his questions.

Kerry really is a douche bag, and a coward. Why didn't he try harder to make them stop tasing the bro?

Honestly the more angles I see this incident from the sicker to my stomach I get.

I hate to be "that guy" that throws his hands up in despair when faced with difficulty, but the political situation here (in america) is just overwhelmingly bad.

Does anybody have any ideas of what to do?

Forgive me for getting off subject, but I'm really worried that another republican will win the white house in 2008. Believe me, the republican sentiment is still strong and popular enough to win, and they have the advantage of fewer serious candidates to pick from. Even if all the young people and minorities in america vote this time, it's possible that the vote could be so evenly divided that we still lose. I feel like the young people should just pick a single democratic candidate and agree to just all go out and dogpile on that one. Hopefully a landslide toward one candidate will be enough to ensure at least a democratic victory.
 
D

deleted105034

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Yeah Kerry says that he didn't know what was happening, but I think he's lying. Everybody in the place heard what was going on! Are you telling me he couldn't see the 5 black-uniformed cops rushing towards the kid? That was his chance to avoid conflict, right then and there.

I'm honestly baffled that Kerry is trying to come out after the fact and say that he thinks the arrest was wrong. Fucking liar. You can hear him at one point in one of the videos making a joke at the bro's expense: "Unfortunately he's not available right now to come up here and have me sworn in as president..."

Kerry may have been a good man at one time, but not anymore. I actually kinda feel sorry for the guy because he obviously still has political ambitions and, with help from this videotape, they will never be fulfilled.
 

jason_els

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Most Democrats won't instill change. You're dealing with right-leaning and even farther right-leaning. There is no truly liberal candidate with a chance. Here's an interesting graphic that incorporates candidates' stated positions on various issues and how those positions rank across the political spectrum:

usprimaries_2007.png


Where's the choice?
 

arrivaderciroma

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What happened is typical of fascist behavior in humans. Those of you who think the kid was disruptive and deserved to be removed by force are on the side of the bullys. Aren't you all tired of what's happening in this country?
Aren't you all pissed that Kerry threw in the towel when he won the vote? Doesn't all of what's happened here: the war in Iraq, the devaluation of the dollar, the collapse of the housing market, the corruption of the Attorney General's office, the cost of gasoline, the outing of CIA operatives by the white house, the moral hypocracy of the politicians, the corruption of the corporations, and pedophile priests (to name a few pet peeves) make you nervous and jerky? The kid wasn't on mic more than 40 seconds before a female cop reached out to grab his arm.

He made a few good points leading to his concern that Kerry threw the election to Bush. This is a pretty good paranoid scenario but hey...we are living in weird times.

This kid provoked the cops, not Kerry. He said "skull and bones". That's a secret college society; but the cops don't know that. They're trained the think that skull and bones refers to death and poison and being a bit more than naked and pirates and violence. Those goony cops are not trained to understand that a college is a place where students can confront authority, question motives, or argue with knowlege. Cops are not raised like that. Most of them are brutalized kids who take their afflictions to their profession and the result is just what you saw on the Youtube videos.

The kid wasn't disruptive. He didn't deserve to be man handled. He was within his rights to resist. He should have been assisted by good citizens who saw the injustice of his arrest. He was on his own turf, his college, confronting a loser politician, perhaps a conspiratorial and evil man.

Those of you who saw the cops as having any right to touch him are conversing with the fascist side of yourselves and you should give it some thought 'cause you're losing your freedoms and liberties to just that kind of thinking.
 

HazelGod

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But he didn't have a bomb. He was in a public venue peaceably assembled to discuss politics. Short of church, no right is more sacred in the constitution of the United States.

Bush's tsarist and illegal Free Speech Zones not withstanding, this guy had every right in the world to engage in political discourse however heated.

Thanks, Jason. I was beginning to feel lonely... :tongue:
 

jason_els

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He made a few good points leading to his concern that Kerry threw the election to Bush. This is a pretty good paranoid scenario but hey...we are living in weird times.

It's not paranoia, it's the truth. If you lived in any country other than the US you would have read and heard about the Florida election fraud. Not one single major American media provider would report it.
 

Andro Man

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The USA a totalitarian fascist state and bringing 'freedom' to the rest of the world, how ironic.

Wonder what's going to happen to this dude? Maybe a nice "re-education"concentrationcamp. Maybe a little torture in one of the many camps the CIA has all over the world? Guantanamo Bay is also meant to be nice this time of year.
 

DC_DEEP

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The USA a totalitarian fascist state and bringing 'freedom' to the rest of the world, how ironic.

Wonder what's going to happen to this dude? Maybe a nice "re-education"concentrationcamp. Maybe a little torture in one of the many camps the CIA has all over the world? Guantanamo Bay is also meant to be nice this time of year.
Nah, they will just hold him for a few hours or a few days or a couple of weeks, then turn him loose and say, "never mind." Or maybe just a fine for "disorderly conduct"... (which, by the way, is legalese for you-didn't-break-a-law-but-we-still-want-to-arrest-you). Just like the dozens upon dozens of truly peaceful protesters who get maced and thrown in jail in Washinton, DC.
 

SpeedoGuy

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Just like the dozens upon dozens of truly peaceful protesters who get maced and thrown in jail in Washinton, DC.

Well, getting tackled, stunned and arrested is what he, or anyone, should expect for daring to dissent or ask questions outside of a "Free Speech Zone." Then none of this would ever have happened.
 

_Alexxx_

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Don't wanna be an American idiot.
Don't want a nation under the new media.
And can you hear the sound of hysteria?
The subliminal mindfuck America.

Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alien nation.
Everything isn't meant to be okay.

Television dreams of tomorrow.
We're not the ones who're meant to follow.
Well that's enough to argue.

Well maybe I'm the faggot America.
I'm not a part of a redneck agenda.
Now everybody do the propaganda.
And sing along in the age of paranoia.

Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alien nation.
Everything isn't meant to be okay.

Television dreams of tomorrow.
We're not the ones who're meant to follow.
Well that's enough to argue.

Don't wanna be an American idiot.
One nation controlled by the media.
Information nation of hysteria.
It's going out to idiot America.

Welcome to a new kind of tension.
All across the alien nation.
Everything isn't meant to be okay.
Television dreams of tomorrow.
We're not the ones who're meant to follow.
________________


Zieg Heil to the president gasman
Bombs away is your punishment
Pulverize the Eiffel towers
Who criticize your government
Bang bang goes the broken glass and
Kill all the fags that don't agree
Trials by fire, setting fire
Is not a way that's meant for me
Just cause, just cause, because we're outlaws yeah!
 

DC_DEEP

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Well, getting tackled, stunned and arrested is what he, or anyone, should expect for daring to dissent or ask questions outside of a "Free Speech Zone." Then none of this would ever have happened.
Oh, right. And although Lafayette Park is a public park, I'm guessing it has been declared a "permanently no-free speech zone," due to its proximity to the White House.

Gag.

Anyone else ready for a tea party?
 

dreamer20

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Are you telling me he couldn't see the 5 black-uniformed cops rushing towards the kid? That was his chance to avoid conflict, right then and there.

It is true that "the kid" blew his chance to avoid a conflict. Instead he provoked a confrontation.