The Stimulus did not create a SINGLE JOB

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Industrialsize, Feb 23, 2010.

  1. Industrialsize

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    Well that's what the Republicans would have you believe. Here are the Highlights from the NON PARTISAN CBO report released today:


    1. The stimulus created up to 2.1 million jobs in the last three months of 2009.

    1. It boosted the economy by up to 3.5 percent.

    1. It lowered the unemployment rate by up to 2.1 percent during that period.

    1. In 2010, the package expected to boost GDP by between 1.4 percent and 4 percent.

    1. In 2010 the package expected to bring down the unemployment rate by between 0.7 percent and 1.8.
    http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/110xx/doc11044/02-23-ARRA.pdf

    ""I won't give them hell, I'll give them the facts, which will seem like hell." Barack Obama 2010
     
    #1 Industrialsize, Feb 23, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2010
  2. BF2K

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    OK explain why Obama and his admin is using the term "jobs created or saved" as the new "double speak" like "peace keeping missiles" and such!!! we need honesty and transparency in Washington, not bullshit!!!
     
  3. SilverTrain

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    Do you really want what's best for the nation, or do you just get your jollies criticizing Obama and other "liberals", Democrats, etc.?

    Because your posts strongly indicate the latter.

    Honestly.
     
  4. Industrialsize

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    So, when presented with facts from the CBO on the success of the Stimulus, all you can do is sputter right wing talking points.
     
  5. D_Harvey Schmeckel

    D_Harvey Schmeckel New Member

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    Republican hypocrisy on the Stimulus and jobs is a bottomless well for opposition researchers this year. Rachel Maddow has been the most vocal about it, but is hardly alone.
     
  6. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    What ST and indy said.
    Seriously BS2K, recognize hypocrisy when you see it and call it for what it is. Even a number of Republican politicians and/or conservative based newspapers are pointing this out.

    www.dccc.org | Hypocrisy Hall of Fame
     
  7. Rikter8

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    And we had that with the prior? Or the possibility of Palin coming into play?

    Define "Homeland Security" That was dubbed by the previous administration. People continue to die. Planes continue to get hijacked.
    How about addendums that allowed Phone tapping without any regulation?
    All in the name of "Homeland Security".

    Don't you feel safe?

    Free yourself from taking sides of Democrat or Republican and see the whole scenario from a different angle.
    The R.O.W cant be wrong.
     
  8. B_talltpaguy

    B_talltpaguy New Member

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    Is it such a hard concept to understand that a bunch of jobs were budgeted to get eliminated, until the Feds stepped up and directly provided the funding to pay those salaries through the stimulus bill? Do you not understand how any reasonable person would consider these 'jobs saved' and describe them as such to others?

    Instead of talking politics, it seems to me like we need to have a big chunk of working age adults in this country go back through school again, because they obviously didn't learn the skills necessary to think for themselves the first time.
     
  9. Rikter8

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    And to answer your question honestly..

    Jobs Created or Saved:

    Stabilizing the economy means less of a downward slope of income.
    Stabilized income or profit stops the effects of laying people off or firing people for budgetary reasons because of a failing economy. Those are Jobs saved. I was one of those Jobs saved, as I watched many around me get walked out because the company had to reduce heads for budget.

    Jobs Created - right here in MI, we have about 5 different alternative energy companies that are starting up that we never had before.
    They won't employ a lot of people...but some is better than none.
    Those are Jobs created.

    Will it ultimately save the U.S. from a downward slope? My opinion, is No.
    There is too much old thinking, old Greed still deeply planted in the system. If allowed, it will continue on until there is nothing left to gain. You'll have the Rich and the Very poor.
    Further, the amount of businesses folding their doors is outweighing jobs being created.
    Lay off 4000, create 300 jobs. Doesn't equal out.

    Peace Keeping missiles - Doesn't everybody want a rocket in their pocket?

    I forsee a republican taking office after Obama. Then back to their old tricks, corruption on a grand scale now that they allowed bribery.
    Keith Olberman really hit the nail on the head.

    YouTube - The New American Corporatocracy! A Special Comment - Part 1 of 2

    YouTube - The New American Corporatocracy! A Special Comment - Part 2 of 2
     
    #9 Rikter8, Feb 23, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2010
  10. Industrialsize

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  11. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

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    Please. You did read the report didn't you? The report makes unverifiable estimates. Funded jobs: 600,000 reported. Analysis? 1 - 2.1 million jobs saved or created including going from part-time to full-time and overtime. :rolleyes:

    More than 4 million jobs have been lost since Obama took office. 600,000 reported from $876 Billion when we lose approx 300,000 a week? Mass layoffs are up and unemployment is projected to rise. I might be inclined to trust the CBO's projected analysis of job creation if I could see evidence of job creation, but I don't.

    Again, Please...


    CBO’s Estimates of ARRA’s Impact on Employment and Economic Output

    Looking at recorded spending to date as well as estimates of the other effects of ARRA on spending and revenues, CBO has estimated the law’s impact on employment and economic output using evidence about how previous similar policies have affected the economy and various mathematical models that represent the workings of the economy. On that basis, CBO estimates that in the fourth quarter of calendar year 2009, ARRA added between 1.0 million and 2.1 million to the number of workers employed in the United States, and it increased the number of full-time-equivalent (FTE) jobs by between 1.4 million and 3.0 million. Increases in FTE jobs include shifts from part-time to full-time work or overtime and are thus generally larger than increases in the number of employed workers.

    CBO also estimates that real (inflation-adjusted) gross domestic product (GDP) was 1.5 percent to 3.5 percent higher in the fourth quarter than would have been the case in the absence of ARRA.

    Data on actual output and employment during the period since ARRA’s enactment are not as helpful in determining ARRA’s economic effects as might be supposed, because isolating the effects would require knowing what path the economy would have taken in the absence of the law. Because that path cannot be observed, the new data add only limited information about ARRA’s impact. Economic output and employment in 2009 were lower than CBO had projected at the time of enactment. But in CBO’s judgment, that outcome reflects greater-than-projected weakness in the underlying economy rather than lower-than-expected effects of ARRA.

    Limitations of Recipients’ Estimates

    CBO’s estimates differ substantially from the reports filed by recipients of ARRA funding. Those recipients reported that ARRA funded nearly 600,000 fulltime-equivalent (FTE) jobs during the fourth quarter of 2009. Such reports, however, do not provide a comprehensive estimate of the law’s impact on employment in the United States. That impact may be higher or lower than the reported number for several reasons (in addition to any issues about the quality of the data in the reports):

    Some of the reported jobs might have existed in the absence of the stimulus package, with employees working on the same activities or other activities.
    The reports filed by recipients measure only the jobs created by employers who received ARRA funding directly or by their immediate subcontractors (so-called primary and secondary recipients), not by lower-level subcontractors.
    The reports do not attempt to measure the number of jobs that may have been created or retained indirectly as greater income for recipients and their employees boosted demand for products and services.
    The recipients’ reports cover only certain appropriations made in ARRA, which encompass about one-fifth of the total amount spent by the government or conveyed through tax reductions in ARRA during the fourth quarter; the reports do not measure the effects of other provisions of the stimulus package, such as tax cuts and transfer payments (including unemployment insurance payments) to individuals.
    Consequently, estimating the law’s overall effects on employment requires a more comprehensive analysis than the recipients’ reports provide. :rolleyes:
     
  12. Industrialsize

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    I knew she would say that.
     
  13. lucky8

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    The unemployment rate was 10.6% in Jan. If the stimulus lowered it by 2.1%, then we would have had an unemployment rate of 12.7% at some point in the last year..which, we haven't. And it's STILL RISING
    Google - public data
    Myth: BUSTED

    Boosted the economy by 3.5%? Really? I challenge anyone to define what this actually means. There is no "economy meter" that goes up and down

    As for jobs created...I'd like to believe it, but where's the proof? Surely if they're so confident as to the exact number, they have a list somewhere in Washington with each job created on it? Or is it more so a nice, big round number...such as "700 billion" and "100 million"? My point is no one really knows, they are just guessing and spouting off good sounding numbers...it might be the CBO, but they're still politicians 1st and foremost...

    And the rest is just speculative. There's a huge difference between 1.4 and 4% when talking about GDP...that's like the weather man saying, "tomorrow it's going to be between 40 and 80 degrees"...1 is shorts weather, the other is not
     
    #13 lucky8, Feb 23, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2010
  14. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Google is nice, but what does the actual Bureau of Labor Statistics say:
    The unemployment rate fell from 10.0 to 9.7 percent in January and nonfarm payroll employment was essentially unchanged (-20,000). Employment fell in construction and in transportation and warehousing, while temporary help services and retail trade added jobs.

    Current Population Survey (CPS)

    So, either Google's stats may not be the most current, or someone is lying here. Of course, depending on your attitudes towards the current administration or government in general one answer may sway you more than the other.
     
  15. lucky8

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    Click on my link. Look directly under the chart. You will see it blatantly says "Data source: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics - Last updated February 8, 2010"

    Word.
     
  16. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Hmmm... what are the chances that Google would have a labor stat more current that the Department of Labor themselves? Also, considering that they said on the 5th that the Unemployment rate dropped to 9.7, what are the chances that it raised nearly one full point in three days?
     
    #16 B_VinylBoy, Feb 23, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2010
  17. lucky8

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    Correct. The homepage was updated on that date. However, every link on that homepage is up to date...emphasis on homepage
     
  18. lucky8

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    And regardless of what's what, the numbers still don't match...
     
  19. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Sorry... I'm more inclined to use numbers from the source and not by a Google search. Here's another from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, also confirming the 9.7 national unemployment rate at the end of January.

    Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

    So again, are you saying that the BLS is lying or intentionally putting up false data? Or did Google make a mistake on their updates?
     
  20. lucky8

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    Neither, more so no one really knows what the real numbers are, especially on a month to month basis, so they make models built on assumptions to determine what the "official" numbers are. Mind you, numerous drafts are made with assumed numbers until a number pops out that sounds reasonable using these assumptions...it's not something that can be accurately measured, especially on a month to month basis, and especially not to the tenth of a percent accuracy...if you want to get technical about it

    and i mean "neither" when referring to bls...google obviously made a mistake in their update
     
    #20 lucky8, Feb 23, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2010
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