The Stimulus did not create a SINGLE JOB

[justasimpleguy]

I'm not getting into this one. But I did enjoy Trinsanity's red, white and blue post. Did anyone else notice?

 

[D_Jurgen Klitgaard]

I'm not into politics, I don't care to follow them closely like some on here. I'm not left or right, red or blue. I like to think of myself as more in the middle, and I only care about who gets the job done while in office. In saying that, I will mention that I did vote for Obama.

All I know is my family and I are being forced to shut down our business that my father and I have kept going for over 10 years. It's been him and I only running the show, and we've been comfortably successful in doing it. When people said we couldn't make it, we prevailed. And now we're looking for any job out there we can find.

I'm not trying to get into this thread, I'm just making a statement. Looks like small family run businesses are taking it pretty hard in all of this. It's just surreal, and I hope and pray that things will pick up before it's too late. We're in the remodel business, and our livelihood right now is depending on the tax returns our potential customers are waiting on. Hopefully the folks we've talked to about doing their work will do good this tax season.

 

[B_starinvestor]

One more thing on the stimulus - the extension of TARP which has been championed by Obama in regards to providing loans to small businesses is another blatant lie and propoganda tool.

We have several small business clients in need of capital; and have approached no less than 4 banks [who are recipients of this TARP funding extension] and each has indicated that there have been no changes whatsoever to underwriting/loan guidelines to small businesses.

The banks will not be extending a single dime to assist in the health/survival of small businesses.

Yet another PR campaign with nothing behind it.

So sad.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

^Then call the Republicans in Congress who blocked the regulatory reforms the Dems had proposed and complain to them.

 

[midlifebear]

^Then call the Republicans in Congress who blocked the regulatory reforms the Dems had proposed and complain to them.

Herr Pooper can't do that. That would actually require he take action rather than just complain. :smile:

 

[B_starinvestor]

^Then call the Republicans in Congress who blocked the regulatory reforms the Dems had proposed and complain to them.

Regulatory reforms isn't the issue with the newest release of TARP funding. Those dollars are supposedly pegged to be extended to small business for the purpose of consolidating debt, hiring new employees and providing capital for operations.

This was the problem with the first TARP package. The funds were supposed to be utilized to extend credit and loosen credit markets; but all the banks did was strengthen their own balance sheets.

Main street never saw a dime, because gov't didn't provide stipulations with the TARP dollars (that was Paulson's baby.) And now we've essentially repeated the same mistake.

Essentially it is this to the banks, "Here is a boatload of money. We hope you lend some of it to small businesses. Enjoy."

What does that accomplish? The thought behind supporting the small businesses is great - I wholeheartedly agree with the principle - but then we fumbled the ball on the 1 yard line. Again.

 

[Pitbull]

- but then we fumbled the ball on the 1 yard line. Again.

There are two one yard lines.
Our government fumbled on the one yard line that was 99 yards from scoring.

 

[lucky8]

^Then call the Republicans in Congress who blocked the regulatory reforms the Dems had proposed and complain to them.

The regulatory "reforms" were a fucking joke. Hardly anything proposed thus far by anybody addresses the main issues of this recession. Our country is ran by a bunch of monkeys who'd rather throw their shit around than use their brains

 

[SilverTrain]

Our country is ran by a bunch of monkeys who'd rather throw their shit around than use their brains

Is this really a statement you're wanting to make? What does it actually mean? Assuming we are not to take the words at their face value, what is your euphemistic meaning?

 

[FRE]

My degree is in business administration, with the equivalent of a minor in economics.

Economics is not an exact science like physics. There are many principals on which people who have studied economics generally agree. However, there are too many variables to pin down. Also, the economy is greatly influenced by psychological factors.

There is no way to quantify accurately the effect that the stimulus package had on the economy. However, there is good reason to believe that without it, we could be far worse off. If the bailouts had not occurred, we could have had a situation comparable to the Great Depression. But, since we cannot turn back the calendar and try something else, we can quantify very little.

Before the Great Depression, our economy had rapid and extreme ups and downs. The modifications to the banking system which were implemented beginning with the Great Depression dampened the cycles and resulted in more steady growth. Also, anti-trust legislation and other changes implemented beginning in the late 1800s resulted in a gradual decline in the gap between rich and poor.

Obviously we have made some mistakes. No financial institution should be "too big to fail," and it may be that the failures could have been prevented without rewarding the gambling bankers.

We will get through this economic problem. I hope that effective steps will be taken to prevent a recurrence. Specifically, there should be NO financial institution that, by itself, can have such a drastic effect on the economy. Also, income disparity has greatly INCREASED since about 1980 to the extent that it is far greater in the U.S. than in other prosperous countries. Perhaps shareholders should have to approve bonuses and salaries for executives of large countries.

 

[lucky8]

Is this really a statement you're wanting to make? What does it actually mean? Assuming we are not to take the words at their face value, what is your euphemistic meaning?

If I wanted to be racist, you would know. Trust me

 

[lucky8]

My degree is in business administration, with the equivalent of a minor in economics.

Economics is not an exact science like physics. There are many principals on which people who have studied economics generally agree. However, there are too many variables to pin down. Also, the economy is greatly influenced by psychological factors.

THANK YOU. I've felt since day 1 that the economy wouldn't be as bad as it currently is if our politicians wouldn't have come on prime time tv in 2008 with their fear mongering. Before the bailout speeches by Paulson and Bush, most people in this country were divided on whether we were even in a recession or not. But the day after the crisis was 'announced,' people stopped spending and the rest is history. Psychology is huge in American economics...or as the Keynesians like to call it, "animal spirits":wink:

 

[B_talltpaguy]

The regulatory "reforms" were a fucking joke. Hardly anything proposed thus far by anybody addresses the main issues of this recession. Our country is ran by a bunch of monkeys who'd rather throw their shit around than use their brains

You got that right.

But when the Republicans won't even allow for debate of the bill, then how can the Senate talk about it and solve the problem? (they can't, hence my original remarks)

 

[lucky8]

You got that right.

But when the Republicans won't even allow for debate of the bill, then how can the Senate talk about it and solve the problem? (they can't, hence my original remarks)

Both sides are acting like monekys. The Dems have been going balls to the walls ramming through some pretty 'liberal' bills and the Reps haven't been taking a stance on an issue until they know what the Dems stance is, followed quickly by an announcement by Sarah Palin that her opinion is the opposite...it's a Dem problem as well...which is why we need term limits and a national campaign to not re-elect any sitting congress people and senators on either side of the aisle, IMO that would be a great start

 

[SilverTrain]

If I wanted to be racist, you would know. Trust me

I hadn't thought it was racist. Congress is mostly white and monkey, if intended as a racial stab, usually refers to black. Interesting that your first reaction ran to that.

My comment was straightforward. Statements like the one you made are tossed around a lot for effect. But what is the real commentary behind it?

 

[Pitbull]

Is this really a statement you're wanting to make? What does it actually mean? Assuming we are not to take the words at their face value, what is your euphemistic meaning?

I hadn't thought it was racist. Congress is mostly white and monkey, if intended as a racial stab, usually refers to black. Interesting that your first reaction ran to that.

My comment was straightforward. Statements like the one you made are tossed around a lot for effect. But what is the real commentary behind it?

My first thought, SilverTrain, when reading your posts was that you were assuming so veiled racist comment.
There is another thread on racism
http://www.lpsg.org/172098-racism.html#post2619297
that brings up monkeys.

But back on topic
The stimulus:
A trillion had to create at least one job.
Congress not thinking - well they have not been reading some of the very important bills that they voted on.

My worry is that they understand exactly what they are doing...

 

[B_spiker067]

Well that's ...[/URL]

""I won't give them hell, I'll give them the facts, which will seem like hell." Barack Obama 2010

This site was updated just 2/12/2010 - Recovery.gov - it shows that only 35.4% of the $787 Billlion in stimulus funds have been "paid out" (and success was already being touted in Nov./Dec. of last year by stimulus supporters). That is $278.7 Billion.

In a one time $14 Trillion economy that is not much of a kick. The likelier positive effects on the economy came from the Fed and the money they have forced into the system which is another whole can of worms on the order of trillions of dollars.

Even so I know people taking advantage of extended unemployment benefits and COBRA assistance. The funding for police and teachers is probably being effective. But the personal tax breaks all probably got spent in Walmart and are headed to China in order to come back in the form of more debt owed to them.

Yes, the Stimulus has good parts, but are those good parts good enough when balanced out against the bad? I'm for the $1.4 B guarantee on the solar plant being built in CA. I'm not sure I'm for the high speed trains if they aren't raised bullet trains.

As for the Republicans who are complaining about the debt but taking on the projects anyways, they'd be fools to put their State's economy at a disadvantage relative to the States gobbling up the goop. No hypocrisy there, but rather pragmatism. And if they are helping in choosing how the money is spent among competing programs the Rep. senators are free to take credit in that and not be hypocritical.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

Both sides are acting like monekys. The Dems have been going balls to the walls ramming through some pretty 'liberal' bills

You would have to cite those new laws before I believed they were ostensibly 'liberal' in nature.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

which is why we need term limits and a national campaign to not re-elect any sitting congress people and senators on either side of the aisle, IMO that would be a great start

I couldn't agree more...

I favor 12 years for all Federal offices... House terms should be 3 years at a time, and the Senate and Presidency 6 years. USSC would be a 12yr appointment, not lifetime (which is particularly absurd imo).

 

[B_VinylBoy]

As for the Republicans who are complaining about the debt but taking on the projects anyways, they'd be fools to put their State's economy at a disadvantage relative to the States gobbling up the goop. No hypocrisy there, but rather pragmatism.

To be in the public eye talking about how the stimulus doesn't work to create a single job, then to take the money from it to fund programs that do create them and take the credit is hypocrisy. End of story. If they need the money, or take money to help their states, they should be (wo)man enough to admit it.