The Stoning of Soraya M.

BS76

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(Emphasis added by me)

Hmmmmmm. This isn't supported by a single history book or article that I have read, and I have a Euro-American education. You are, however, entitled to your opinion, but do not present opinion as fact. Name ONE such civilization.

That's not surprising. You won't be hearing about feminism's failures throughout history in college. Fact of the matter is ancient Greece, Rome, Iraq, etc all began to embrace feminism and gave women rights and privileges, they stopped having as many kids, social programs ate away at their prosperity, and eventually patriarchal societies that out-bred them took prominence in their respective regions, assisted by their own economic implosions/instability. Iraq is a notable one too because until religious aspects changed it was the seat of astronomy and mathematics. Hell, the very word Algebra is an Arabic word. Anyway, what we've seen in the past is already happening here in the west. Women get the right to vote, socialism creeps up, men are disincentivized to produce, the tax base dwindles as women rely on daddy govt, taxes soar, and eventually the economy implodes taking the nation with it. That's in a nutshell the social influences that helped lead to Rome's fall and is exactly what the US is tracking to.
 

hud01

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Didn't see this thread before, so now I've synced up the movie on Netflix, and am sitting down with a glass of wine and a big box of tissues.

If you're still reading this, MR, you might want to check out this video of an amazing poem by an Islamic woman: Sharia Law

- - - - - -

As an aside, contrary to some people's belief, stoning pre-dates Islam. Stoning was part of tribal laws and practices, and unfortunately was assimilated into Islamic culture as Islam spread, much as some "Christian" holidays were originally from older religions.

But Islam isn't the only religion that has oppressed women. For example, Catholicism and "Christianity" murdered hundreds of thousands of women (as "witches").

In fact, between witch trials, prohibition of birth control, condomless sex (and spread of HIV), and forbidding even medically necessary abortion, my GUESTIMATE is that Catholicism has murdered more women than Islam.

Sadly, the less literate a culture, the more susceptible it is to religious fanaticism and murderous "civil" practices.

I don't often speak about what I do, or why I do it, but it is my fondest hope to foster literacy and ability to read information on the Internet around the globe. Censureship and inability to read and the two biggest enemies of enlightenment and human rights.
The murdering of women as witches took place 250 years ago.

Nobody is saying Cathilocism hasn't done those things, but it is like saying Stalin was better than Hitler. Because one religion does bad things another religion is off the hook.

That being said you don't have to have sex, so unwanted pregnancy and AIDS are a self inflicted penalty. Being stoned to death is not.
 

shaguar

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Didn't see this thread before, so now I've synced up the movie on Netflix, and am sitting down with a glass of wine and a big box of tissues.

Not Punny! What is my dream girl doing in a shit thread like this? But I hear you about that box of tissues - I agree masturbation and stoner movies go hand in sock :rolleyes:

Apart from the Orientalists and the "pre-eminent experts on Islam, Islamists, Terrorism, and the Arab World", there isn't much in this thread but the smell of oral flatulence. I dug your ultra legit point on CULTURAL practices being lumped in with Islamic ideology and prescribed principles. I disagree that the impact of subversion, propaganda and corruption of Islam - by opportunists from within and by external enemies of free peoples - is equally shared by other traditions. Least of all Christianity, as we don't know it at least. Let us be very very clear. Christianity for most of its history was a force of evil, and only after the Renaissance did the necessary reforms begin to take a firm hold. Even today, evil Xtians like Pentecostals harbour original Christian values. Many Progressive Christians reject the evil of old traditional Christianity, and practice a gentler, nobler religion.

On the other hand, Islam has a non-translatable scripture (poetry essentially can't be translated) which can be used by modern evil-doers such as Iran, the USA, Baptist preachers, lpsg experts on religion and history, etc. to say whatever the hell they want it to. Briefly, it is possible for a belief system to be both monotheistic and polymorphic - as long as the core principles are not violated. Therefore, interpretations which violate the core are invalid. Obviously, only an idiot would visit lpsg looking for a religious ruling, so it matters who plants the interpretation. Give that plant some time and you get a sect, a minority which holds a falsehood to be a core belief, but still thinks of itself as owner of the original whole. It is a fascinating topic, not just in terms of theology, but from the angle of organisational dynamics.

Your most important point was about older practices being grandfathered in, such as the veil (Persian practice) and various Saudi style punishments. It is fascinating how people always want to get tough on crime, keep those faggots in their place, protect the womenfolk by confining them, stop them from moving in, get back our (black) gold from under their land, and so on. Seriously, do you think the Talibombs or Amerinazis actually need a religious or moral reason to do what they do? Come on people, give Fascism a chance - oh good, you already did.
 

helgaleena

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Fundamentalism is the same beast no matter how it is dressed. Stoning was practiced in ancient Israel too, yes. Bible thumpers nowadays would love to bring back burning at the stake I am sure.

I have quite enough fundament of my own without buying extra from others, thanks
 

idesofmarch

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This is so middle aged. I cried my heart out some years back, when I read about the case of the Nigerian Amina Laval. It's too long to write here, but if you're interested, you know what to do.

The stoning itself, no quick death there. They try to make it as as torturing and as painful as they can. The sharia law has no forgiveness.

Some months ago, I read in our newspaper, that a woman in Pakistan was sentenced to 100 hits by a whip. She was guilty of getting preganant by rape.
 

chiko88

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as someone that grew up in both the middle east and canada, and as an arab, i can tell u for certain that i am ashamed of what my people do. but u people have a few things to learn. first off, the reason y the middle east is SO FUCKED up is because the ruling class over there have made up their own rules to govern their societies and they dont even follow islam. islam doesn NOT permit honer killings, and stoning to death is the punishment for adulterers only and only if certian conditions are met. the stonning to death for adulteres is allowed following the following contitions:

1-there has to be 4 EYE witnesses to the act
2-these witness must be of good character and in good standing in the community
3-each of the 4 witnesses must have ACTUALLY SEEN the act of penetration with their own eyes. if they didnt see a dick going into a womans vagina, they CAN NOT testify and the 2 adulterers CAN NOT be stonned.

islam isnt as barbaric as u think. the punishment of stonning is to detter adulterers, and given the extreme conditions that need to be met, it is impossible to convict 2 people of adultery according to islamic law. what the stupid middle east governments do is not ISLAMIC at all and people have to stop blaming religion.

this video has more information if you guys are interested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enTXLxZ1kRQ

have an nice day.
 

helgaleena

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as someone that grew up in both the middle east and canada, and as an arab, i can tell u for certain that i am ashamed of what my people do. but u people have a few things to learn. first off, the reason y the middle east is SO FUCKED up is because the ruling class over there have made up their own rules to govern their societies and they dont even follow islam. islam doesn NOT permit honer killings, and stoning to death is the punishment for adulterers only and only if certian conditions are met. the stonning to death for adulteres is allowed following the following contitions:

1-there has to be 4 EYE witnesses to the act
2-these witness must be of good character and in good standing in the community
3-each of the 4 witnesses must have ACTUALLY SEEN the act of penetration with their own eyes. if they didnt see a dick going into a womans vagina, they CAN NOT testify and the 2 adulterers CAN NOT be stonned.

islam isnt as barbaric as u think. the punishment of stonning is to detter adulterers, and given the extreme conditions that need to be met, it is impossible to convict 2 people of adultery according to islamic law. what the stupid middle east governments do is not ISLAMIC at all and people have to stop blaming religion.

this video has more information if you guys are interested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enTXLxZ1kRQ

have an nice day.

That means the stoning in the Soraya case was against Islamic law but not local customs? Thank you for clarifying this. I am a believer in the basic truth being present in all religions. Even the Flying Spaghetti Monster ones. But we humans are pretty horrible to one another, much too often.
 

Penis Aficionado

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1-there has to be 4 EYE witnesses to the act
2-these witness must be of good character and in good standing in the community
3-each of the 4 witnesses must have ACTUALLY SEEN the act of penetration with their own eyes. if they didnt see a dick going into a womans vagina, they CAN NOT testify and the 2 adulterers CAN NOT be stonned.


Oh! Well, in that case, by all means, stone away!

Fucking savages.
 
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Sergeant_Torpedo

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It is just not an "over there" problem. Abuse of women and children is universal. May I ask are the poor women (girls really) who under economic pressure sign up for contract work in military brothels (euphemistically termed massage facility) in Iraq and Afghanistan victims?
 

helgaleena

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It is just not an "over there" problem. Abuse of women and children is universal. May I ask are the poor women (girls really) who under economic pressure sign up for contract work in military brothels (euphemistically termed massage facility) in Iraq and Afghanistan victims?


I don't think anyone is stoning them, sergeant :confused: Whether prostitution is victimization if legal and well regulated is an entirely different issue from the killing of a rape victim or an unwanted spouse.

A more germane topic would be bride burning, which is quite a racket in some areas of south Asia both among Muslims and Hindus. If the dowry is insufficient or you just want to get married again, arrange a 'cooking accident' where the girl is set on fire, or alternatively, doused with acid.

I think these military 'massage facilities' at least pay the women...
 

B_New End

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Prostitution is not even the same thing, but

America has one of the highest incident of rape per capita in the world. In Iran, a rapist will usually sees real, timely justice. In America, they get 3 years.. sometimes less... most of the time nothing.

Politics are a strange thing. One woman in Iran gets stoned to death for being raped, yet men get severe sentences for rape most of the time. Prostitution exists in Iran, as does drug use, especially heroin and opium, and even though it carries severe penalties, they simply do not enforce it very often. Like so many countries, many times the lower classes aren't affected by the laws.
 

fratpack

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As it turns out, I just received this movie via Netflix today. Looking forward to seeing this movie over the weekend. Will post back later my reaction.
 

B_dxjnorto

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1-there has to be 4 EYE witnesses to the act
2-these witness must be of good character and in good standing in the community
3-each of the 4 witnesses must have ACTUALLY SEEN the act of penetration with their own eyes. if they didnt see a dick going into a womans vagina, they CAN NOT testify and the 2 adulterers CAN NOT be stonned.

islam isnt as barbaric as u think.
That IS barbaric. Same standard makes proving rape impossible. If you have four witnesses, either it wouldn't happen, or they cover for each other.
 

basstoo

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I have not seen the movie yet,but will soon.There are real life vids on the web of this horrific act that have been smuggeld out of those countrys to show this ignorant.Hopefully the next generations to come will understand a more open and modern understanding of rights of women, when the small act of getting caught driving a car can have the punishment a beating its insanity!
 

dreamer20

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There's another half to this story--men get stoned to death just as often as women do, if not more frequently...

But are they stoned for Adultery as often as women?

Human rights activist tries to stop death by stoning for Iranian woman - CNN.com

^^Amnesty International refutes BS76's statement, as they state the opposite case to be true. Excerpt from the article above:

"The majority of those sentenced to death by stoning are women, who suffer disproportionately from such punishment," the human rights group said in a 2008 report.

Amnesty International also states that such executions, which it is opposed to, are rare occurrences:

http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/iran/Stoning_report_FINAL.pdf



N.B. Iran's legal code, created after the 1979 Iranian Revolution, is gender biased, and thus discriminates against women.

International Campaign for Human Rights in Iran – The Systematic Repression of the Women’s Rights Movement — May 2008
 

Scot22

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This is also frightening,watching this Neo-Fascist behaviour.
Worryingly,there are groups in my country---the UK---- who wish to bring such practices here. Others are sympathetic to this behaviour.
We wouldn't do this to an animal.
Strangely, Womens' Rights Groups and TV here,are turning a blind eye,or at best,are making muted protests.
Why aren't women marching to Parliament? The men would join them.
This issue is as important as Womens' Universal Suffrage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rgSH...eature=related

There seems to be an eery silence from all government,religious and media institutions in the UK.
Completely baffles me.
 
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B_New End

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Oh look, not satisfied with spreading islamaphobia in the veil banning and other threads and politics, Scot22 digs up this two week old thread to continue his bigotry and alarmist "behaviour".

This should have been in politics.... and I assure you the film was made for political reasons beyond saving a woman's life.
 

dreamer20

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This is also frightening,watching this Neo-Fascist behavior.
Worryingly,there are groups in my country---the UK---- who wish to bring such practices here. Others are sympathetic to this behavior.
We wouldn't do this to an animal.
Strangely, Womens' Rights Groups and TV here,are turning a blind eye,or at best,are making muted protests.
Why aren't women marching to Parliament? The men would join them.
This issue is as important as Womens' Universal Suffrage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rgSH...eature=related

There seems to be an eery silence from all government,religious and media institutions in the UK.
Completely baffles me.

What you have shown is not a "Neo-Fascist" behavior or a phenomenon restricted to the Middle East, but an example of sectarian violence - where this type of violence was already known to occur in the UK for many centuries:

Sectarian violence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia