The Strauss-Kahn case

Drifterwood

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She has been granted asylum, thus she is a legal resident of the US. And, (so far) no steps have been made to rescind that status, so I think she's fine.

The first apparent crime, that no one seems to be questioning now, is that she perjured herself to get asylum. She did this by convincing the authorities that she had been raped. It would seem reasonable to establish this first allegation first. This would clearly then impact her trustworthiness as making allegations about rape, but i imagine the defense would wish to prove that she was/is indeed involved in selling sex, which would of course then clear up the action against the Post.
 

atlclgurl

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This is IMO a very American response.


*shrug* Go figure, I'm an American.

While your scenario is technically plausible, do you really think a man who is not in any kind of "powerful" position currently and likely to never gain such power again is going to to be championed by the French government, which I might point out is run (and will likely continue to be run, solely by virtue of a dearth of other viable candidates) by the man he sought to oust?

Even the French public is not behind DSK 100%.

IMO your declaration the "this is not the end of the matter" is wrong. Time will tell.
 

atlclgurl

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The first apparent crime, that no one seems to be questioning now, is that she perjured herself to get asylum. She did this by convincing the authorities that she had been raped. It would seem reasonable to establish this first allegation first. This would clearly then impact her trustworthiness as making allegations about rape, but i imagine the defense would wish to prove that she was/is indeed involved in selling sex, which would of course then clear up the action against the Post.


I think the fact is that she was raped, but not in the style she describes in her asylum application.

I doubt the defense will be able to "find" proof that she was a prostitute, in the current environment, witness of that ilk (money grubbers, one and all) would have been waving their proof from the Empire State building, or from the front cover of the National Enquirer (they pay for those sordid sorts of tales).

Probably, if the US decides to rescind her status as a citizen for lying, she'll just get exported.
 

Jason

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*shrug* Go figure, I'm an American.

While your scenario is technically plausible, do you really think a man who is not in any kind of "powerful" position currently and likely to never gain such power again is going to to be championed by the French government, which I might point out is run (and will likely continue to be run, solely by virtue of a dearth of other viable candidates) by the man he sought to oust?

Even the French public is not behind DSK 100%.

IMO your declaration the "this is not the end of the matter" is wrong. Time will tell.

I don't think it is at all likely. But I do think it is possible. DSK is probably not going to be President of France but he may well subsequently hold high political office in France or in the EU. From such a position a claim from him under human rights legislation is possible.

More to the point very many people worldwide would love to see the USA taken to task for many aspects of its penal system, from arrest through to judicial murder. The logic behind human rights is that they are universal, not culturally based - indeed Obama recently lectured China to this effect. All the time the US system affects only US nationals it just isn't in the interests of the rest of the world to get involved. This is where the DSK is interesting - someone who is very senior and not a US citizen has been abused by the USA. I've very little interest in any financial compensation claim he might make, or in the maid's protest about being called a prostitute by a newspaper. But I would be fascinated to see a case which prompted an examination of the US penal system. Maybe some good could come out of this.
 

ConstantComment

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Umm, you do know that if she wins her libel suit, her attorney will be getting paid, right?

btw, the last time this kind of thing happened (think Kobe Bryant), he didn't get prosecuted, but did settle (out of court) with his accuser.

So, how exactly did this turn to "shit" for the attorney?

USATODAY.com - Kobe Bryant, accuser settle her civil lawsuit

Pretty lucrative strategy here....go to a celebrity's room for no good reason; encourage him to have sex with you; say no at any point after you have him going; cry date rape; string it out long enough so that he'll pay you 1 or 2 percentage points of his massive wealth and hope that you can fade into the background after that........

Will the Sofitel lady try to get an out of court settlement as well even though is a criminal activity and usually dealt with in criminal court?
 

atlclgurl

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One problem with your conspiracy theory there, CC... she's not suing DSK. She's suing the New York Post for libel.

Under your theory, she would have to has (somehow) manipulated the paper into publishing an untrue story that she's a hooker.

By the by, what date rape? She's claiming straight out rape.
 

ConstantComment

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One problem with your conspiracy theory there, CC... she's not suing DSK. She's suing the New York Post for libel.

Under your theory, she would have to has (somehow) manipulated the paper into publishing an untrue story that she's a hooker.

By the by, what date rape? She's claiming straight out rape.

She still has time to sue DSK personally. But let's see how she fares with the NY Post. She might need that settlement to move on to DSK personally.

How long after the story broke that Kobe Bryant and his accuser started talking about a settlement?
 

Calboner

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Pretty lucrative strategy here....go to a celebrity's room for no good reason; encourage him to have sex with you; say no at any point after you have him going; cry date rape; string it out long enough so that he'll pay you 1 or 2 percentage points of his massive wealth and hope that you can fade into the background after that........

Will the Sofitel lady try to get an out of court settlement as well even though is a criminal activity and usually dealt with in criminal court?
She still has time to sue DSK personally. But let's see how she fares with the NY Post. She might need that settlement to move on to DSK personally.

How long after the story broke that Kobe Bryant and his accuser started talking about a settlement?
Wow! I am impressed by your access to facts unknown to the general public, the news media, the police, the prosecutor, . . . .

Oh, wait, no: you just like to string together your fantasies and speculations as if their mutually reinforcing character lent them probability. My mistake.
 

atlclgurl

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CC, DSK's accuser needn't wait a nanosecond longer to sue him civilly. Well, once the courthouse doors open in the morning, LOL

Why do you think she "needs" to win the suit against the NY Post? Different parties, different cause of action, one has no bearing on the other.

I don't know the particulars of the Bryant case, but ya know, Google is your friend in these instances.
 

atlclgurl

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Drifterwood

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"Two sources connected with Strauss-Kahn's defense team told Reuters that by late June they had assembled information indicating that the woman was part of a community of criminals involved in such alleged activities as drug and people trafficking, money laundering and counterfeiting official documents and brandname goods."


"One of the sources familiar with evidence investigators had turned up weeks ago about the accuser's background said: "Just about everything that was reported on this woman early on was untrue but no one checked or wanted to believe anything else.""

Great article, but the only evidence that she was ever raped, is her word, which frankly is not credible. I was horrifically gang raped. Ok, I wasn't horrifically gang raped, but i was raped at some time, but that is not why I need asylum.

My bold BTW is what gets me. Do you just have to cry victim in the US to get what you want? Where did this come from? Seems to have worked for Casey Anthony.

I can't see that any prosecutor is going to want this case from what is reported in your Reuters link. Don't forget that it is also the prosecution team saying that they have uncovered her web of lies.
 
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atlclgurl

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According to her attorney she volunteered that she had told the lies on her asylum application, to him, and then he contacted the prosecutors.

Those "sources" came from HIS side (probably Private Investigators he hired through his defense team), I take that with a large lump of salt.

Her attorney claims that she lied about the gang rape to ensure recieving asylum from the US as she had been genitally mutilated and wanted to make sure she spared her daughter that horror, not knowing that the genital mutilation probably would have been sufficient reason to grant her the asylum she sought.
 

atlclgurl

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DSK, Rape Accuser Both Deprived of 'Innocent Until Proven Guilty'

By Susan Milligan
Posted: July 5, 2011


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"Innocent until proven guilty" is an essential and cherished element of the U.S. criminal justice system. Former IMF chief and French politician Dominique Strauss-Kahn was arguably denied this proudly American right when he was indicted for sexual assault and attempted rape of a housekeeper at a fancy New York hotel. And now, his accuser is being subject to the same rush to judgment.
Strauss-Kahn was hauled away in handcuffs and put up in Rikers Island jail after being arraigned on the assault charges. The media—the New York media, in particular—loves a story like this, the idea of a privileged, highly-paid official being treated like a common criminal. It’s very tempting to revel in the comparisons of his pricey Sofitel suite with the less-comfortable accommodations at Rikers. In a way, it was a showcase of American equality under the law: the concept that everyone gets the same treatment, regardless of wealth or power.


http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs...etting-the-strauss-kahn-ensign-scandals-wrong
Except that it’s not equal. Strauss-Kahn was humiliated in a Law and Order: SVU style "perp walk," a theatrical production that is in complete defiance of the right to the presumption of innocence. Law enforcement might not have bothered making such a scene with a lesser-known accused person, and the media, to be sure, would not have bothered to cover it—never mind to stake out the accused’s home after he was released on bail. The French were appalled; their laws bar the use of such photos of the merely accused. And while banning such photos raises serious First Amendment issue, the French have a point. The "perp walk" is more than prejudicial; it is a barbaric tradition.


But Strauss-Kahn may have caught a break, and it’s not because the evidence of a sexual assault is missing. It’s because the accuser has been exposed as a liar and a person of questionable character.


http://www.usnews.com/politicalcartoons
The woman, according to prosecutors, lied on her asylum application and has had shady contact with a drug dealer in prison. These are bad behaviors, but they do not mean she cannot be a victim of sexual assault or any other crime. Aside from some changes in her account of exactly where she went after the alleged attack, there is no evidence that she lied about the attack itself. Indeed, the defense has stipulated that sexual contact took place, saying that it was consensual. The prosecution says it has evidence of forced sexual contact, including vaginal bruising that is consistent with (but not definitely proof of) an assault. Perhaps it is difficult to believe that a man of Strauss-Kahn’s position would risk so much by forcing a housekeeper into sexual acts. It is equally baffling to many that she would walk into a hotel room and become so overwhelmed with desire at the sight of an older stranger that she would immediately want to engage in sex with him. Only the two people—the accused and the accuser—know what happened in that hotel room, and a trial, hopefully, would have unearthed the truth. But rape, unlike other crimes, is still prosecuted (or more often, not prosecuted) according to an informal test of who is the person of greater personal character and standing in society.
For women, this used to mean that if she had ever had consensual sex, she was suspect as a rape victim. While that standard has eased, there is still a sexist and antiquated view that when it comes to sex, women fall into two categories: victim or whore, or more broadly, a pure person who has been defiled versus someone who is too flawed to be further defiled. Strauss-Kahn, who is now accused by a French novelist of attempting to rape her years ago, may have his character questioned somewhat. But the hotel housekeeper who accused him of assault has bigger hurdles to clear, and they may be insurmountable because prosecutors—while believing she was indeed a victim of attempted rape—see her as having a credibility problem. It would be a terrible transgression of justice if Strauss-Kahn (or anyone) was wrongly convicted based on media frenzy over a powerful person accused of a common crime. And it would send a terrible message to the world about the U.S. criminal justice system. But to refuse justice to an alleged assault victim because she has unrelated character flaws sends an equally damaging message: that good women can be raped, but bad women have no defense.

DSK, Rape Accuser Both Deprived of 'Innocent Until Proven Guilty' - Susan Milligan (usnews.com)
 

Drifterwood

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I don't disagree.

However, you have an accused who has a reputation, and an accuser who is a known perjurer and perhaps other things besides. A pair doesn't beat a full house.

BTW I think her black and white description of society's attitude to women is as out of date as DSK. Certainly in the world I know. Which is good that it is.

Is she going to play the feminist martyr now?
 

atlclgurl

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Yeah, a reputation as a sexual predator... let's not forget the other woman who is claiming he raped her, violently.

Martrydom? Are you confusing the maid and the author of the article???
 

Drifterwood

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Yeah, a reputation as a sexual predator... let's not forget the other woman who is claiming he raped her, violently.?

Tut tut - there you go again. She alleges that he attempted to rape or sexually assault her.

Constant attempts to over exaggerate just diminish the credibility of the allegations against him.

I have to go to work, but I will come back to this fiasco.
 

atlclgurl

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I don't get this... what's the difference between "alleging" and "claiming"? - None.

What's the difference between "rape" and 'sexual assualt"? None.

So what exactly am I exaggerating? Violent? Well, perhaps you haven't been doing your reading...

"his fingers in my mouth, his hands in my pants…[He] grabbed my hand and arm, I asked him to let me go … He pulled me toward him, we came down and we fought on the ground for several minutes ... He was violent. When I realized he really wanted to rape me, I started to give him a kick with my boots, I was terrified and I told him: "You're not going to rape me?" And then I managed to free myself, I ran downstairs …"

Did Dominique Strauss-Kahn Try To Rape Tristane Banon? - By William Saletan - Slate Magazine

Of course these charges have not been proven yet, but there's no proof that this young Frenchwoman is lying either.