The Tearing Down Of The Statues

wallyj84

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What do you guys think of the protesters tearing down the statues? They seem to be tearing down a lot of them, not just the Confederate statues but other historical figures like Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt.

I have a theory on this and would like to hear what you think. I think there is a general anger at the way things are right now. Not just racially, but economically and politically as well. People are seeing the flaws in the system and coming to understand they've been sold a false bill of goods. This relates to the statues because people are coming to understand just how much of what they've been taught in school was a lie. That people like the Founding Fathers weren't these perfect pillars of fairness and democracy, but men who held views that were normal for the time but fairly abhorrent nowadays. They were normal, flawed people, but the system held them up to be more than they were for the sake of creating a national mythology. Now people are rejecting that mythology.

Conservatives say that the protesters are destroying our history, but it is really the fact that the real history has been hidden is the source of this anger. That is my opinion. What do you think?
 
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Drifterwood

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Same issue in the UK. My opinion is that these statues were generally erected with the consent of the majority of the people. If you want to remove them, you should be sure that you have the consent of most of the people.
 

keenobserver

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Same issue in the UK. My opinion is that these statues were generally erected with the consent of the majority of the people. If you want to remove them, you should be sure that you have the consent of most of the people.

In the U.S. actually, they were not erected with the consent of the majority. Too many citizens were not allowed to vote. This was legally possible until the mid 1960's and then voter suppression began in earnest and in too many places continues today. I don't think any statue that honors anyone who took up arms against the U.S. should be allowed to stand in public places of honor - ever. Some of the other statues are problematic as well and there is no blanket one size fits all. Consent was not asked to put them up, I don't feel it is needed to take them down. The mood changed.
 

Abe Froman

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We await for the Crazy Horse memorial to be defaced and turned to rubble, right?

Soon after, vandalization of Jeep Cherokees.

Both tribes had black slaves, not mention stealing land, murdering babies, raping women, and enslaving OTHER native American tribes, well BEFORE American colonists.

And here ya'll thought eating an Eskimo Pie was sinful.


651724-13.jpg
 

Abe Froman

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>> don't think any statue that honors anyone who took up arms against the U.S. should be allowed to stand in public places of honor

Per my post....that would include Crazy Horse....or does your buck stop well before? Curious.

And those spouting: We took their land!" Spare me silly....the Lakota took everyone's land pre-colonism.

In the U.S. actually, they were not erected with the consent of the majority. Too many citizens were not allowed to vote. This was legally possible until the mid 1960's and then voter suppression began in earnest and in too many places continues today. I don't think any statue that honors anyone who took up arms against the U.S. should be allowed to stand in public places of honor - ever. Some of the other statues are problematic as well and there is no blanket one size fits all. Consent was not asked to put them up, I don't feel it is needed to take them down. The mood changed.
 

Drifterwood

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In the U.S. actually, they were not erected with the consent of the majority. Too many citizens were not allowed to vote. This was legally possible until the mid 1960's and then voter suppression began in earnest and in too many places continues today. I don't think any statue that honors anyone who took up arms against the U.S. should be allowed to stand in public places of honor - ever. Some of the other statues are problematic as well and there is no blanket one size fits all. Consent was not asked to put them up, I don't feel it is needed to take them down. The mood changed.

Are you involved in pulling down public monuments?
 

keenobserver

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Tight_N_Juicy

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Take 'em all down. I don't care at all.

Symbolism is significant, but I think it's time our species grew out of some the traditions we've practiced for long enough. Not that my opinion matters on any level to anyone other than me, but the question was asked and that's how I feel about it.

Times change. We shouldn't be so terrified to let it happen, especially when those changes involve becoming more inclusive and understanding of the experiences of others.

We can be proud of our country today without glorifying people who owned slaves and stole a country from indigenous people. We can hold up the ideals and principles this country stands for without idolizing the people who wrote the constitution, because we Should acknowledge their flaws just as much as we acknowledge their accomplishments.

If we can do that, we improve these United States in a way the founding fathers couldn't have imagined. We can be Better than them, because we Should be after hundreds of years. We should be proud that we CAN take their statues down, and that doing so is just as American as voting for our leaders, and expressing our religious beliefs freely.

My opinion? The people taking the statues down are true patriots who truly want to make this country better.
 

kidfresh512

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Politico did a very good piece on the descendants of some of these Confederate Generals who have Current army bases, streets, schools, statues named after them. Very relevant and interesting seeing how they feel about their own ancestor and the relevance of their names.

Why the Descendants of Confederate Generals Are Happy to See Their Names Go

Lt. General Nathan Bedford Forrest
“My family likes to tout that he was the first grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan but he left the organization when he realized it was not just a social club; they were secretly lynching the Black community. And so he left when he figured that out, which makes him a good guy. And I’m of the mindset: If that’s all it takes to be a good guy, I think you need a bit more, especially if you’re going to be honoring him.”

“[My] letter to the editor made my Dad pretty much yell at me for about 30 minutes the other day when I called him for Father’s Day. My Dad said, ‘You know, he was a tactical genius on the battlefield. They still study his tactics to this day. That's what we’re proud of.’ And he also said—this was a good one—‘his slaves loved him. So that shows he wasn’t a bad guy.’ My counterpoint was ‘I’m sure the slaves would have loved to not be slaves.’
 

Thikn2velvet1

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Any statues placed by the Daughters of the Confederacy should be removed, they were a thinly veiled offshoot of the KKK. Those with a more historical framing should be debated.
 

keenobserver

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An invader of which you are. You might as well be part of John Chivington’s cavalry because you are an occupier as am I. And don’t pretend you aren’t, we all are unless we are First Nation.

Not really relevant to the immediate issue but whatever . . . .