The term "Slut"

Is the term "Slut" something you find demeaning or pejorative

  • Yes, it's demeaning. Slut has a dirty connotation

    Votes: 29 26.6%
  • No, it's not demeaning at all

    Votes: 4 3.7%
  • It is demeaning, but I'd like to reclaim it, a la "Bitch" or "Queer"

    Votes: 14 12.8%
  • It can be, depends on how you use it

    Votes: 46 42.2%
  • I don't really care

    Votes: 16 14.7%

  • Total voters
    109

Kotchanski

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Yes, but it seemed like he was equating the man's lack of shame or regret with somehow making the word less of an insult. As if the man's pride at having slept with a woman he calls a slut should make her feel good about herself... unless I'm mistaken.

Maybe I'm just feeling more giving than usual, but I read it more to mean that from that particular man's (and those like him) point of view, it was MEANT as less offensive than when women call another woman a slut, because he means it as a good thing.

I read it like that because he ended it by discussing the double standard which "allows" a man to believe it is more acceptable and a good thing, even though it certainly doesn't feel like it from our end.
 

B_quiet_man

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No, they had double standards. That's the definition of a double standard.

They believe that men who sleep with women are studs and women who sleep with men are sluts. Guys right here on LPSG describe and defend that belief all the time. Surely you realize that this exists.

This kind of thinknig is a bit old-fashioned, and a bit of a cliché. My position has moved beyond this point, as I explained in my post above. I'll say it again here for clarity.

Women that are not sexually selective enough are looked down on as being "sluts" mainly by women, where as men that are not sexually selected enough are looked down on as being "losers", by both men and women.

It's far harder and more alienating to be a sexually unsuccessful male than it is to be a sexually successful female. Being a unsuccessful with women is negative feedback loop - because women tend to prefer males that have been "preselected" by other females. This is why, in each generation, half as many males manage to pass their genes onto the next generation as females.

Therefore, being a female slut, is far more favorable than being a male sexual loser, for evolutionary reasons. It's because of that I think the term "slut" may well be "reclaimed", but the terms "creep", "perv", "loser" and other terms intended to debase male sexual failures are never likely to be.
 
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petite

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Maybe I'm just feeling more giving than usual, but I read it more to mean that from that particular man's (and those like him) point of view, it was MEANT as less offensive than when women call another woman a slut, because he means it as a good thing.

I read it like that because he ended it by discussing the double standard which "allows" a man to believe it is more acceptable and a good thing, even though it certainly doesn't feel like it from our end.

I honestly believe that when I've heard men use it, they have meant the exact same thing women have meant when they used it, that a woman is somehow less worthy of respect because of having had sex too soon, with the wrong person, or with too many people. That guy I told off, he was calling her a slut precisely to discredit any rumors about who she might have slept with, apparently under the belief that if she's known to be slutty then you actually cannot trust rumors regarding who she actually has or has not been with. It didn't make any sense to me at the time at all because if he knew women better, calling one woman a slut doesn't make a man more attractive, but given his reasoning, he believed that sexual insult would also make people believe that she was also a liar, which goes beyond the sexual realm. He believed that the accusation of being a slut would make other people believe that she was untrustworthy in every way.
 
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petite

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This kind of thinknig is a bit old-fashioned, and a bit of a cliché. My position has moved beyond this point, as I explained in my post above. I'll say it again here for clarity.

Women that are not sexually selective enough are looked down on as being "sluts" mainly by women, where as men that are not sexually selected enough are looked down on as being "losers", by both men and women.

It's far harder and more alienating to be a sexually unsuccessful male than it is to be a sexually successful female. Being a unsuccessful with women is negative feedback loop - because women tend to prefer males that have been "preselected" by other females. This is why, in each generation, half as many males manage to pass their genes onto the next generation as females.

Therefore, being a female slut, is far more favorable than being a male sexual loser, for evolutionary reasons. It's because of that I think the term "slut" may well be "reclaimed", but the terms "creep", "perv", "loser" and other terms intended to debase male sexual failures are never likely to be.

Oh, so you were saying that even if his intention was harmful and if she's regarded as a "slut" socially and she's treated badly as a result, that in an evolutionary sense, she's actually the winner, so the joke's on them?
 

molotovmuffin

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Maybe I'm just feeling more giving than usual, but I read it more to mean that from that particular man's (and those like him) point of view, it was MEANT as less offensive than when women call another woman a slut, because he means it as a good thing.

I read it like that because he ended it by discussing the double standard which "allows" a man to believe it is more acceptable and a good thing, even though it certainly doesn't feel like it from our end.

There is absolutely NO good definition of the word Slut and no matter whom uses the word, it's an insult, even if done jokingly/lovingly to a friend. It classifies a group or individual.
 

Kotchanski

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Not you but in quite_man's definition, at least that is the way I took it.

I read his comment differently, I said so.

You don't have to agree with how I read it, but I don't appreciate feeling tarred with the brush he's tarred with based on how others read his comments because I agree with how I read it!

(I confess I may be a tad oversensitive on this issue, but hey, I'm not going to be the only one!)
 

B_quiet_man

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There is absolutely NO good definition of the word Slut and no matter whom uses the word, it's an insult, even if done jokingly/lovingly to a friend. It classifies a group or individual.

I guess on this thread, we may well see the schism between the sex positive feminist perspective, and the sex negative feminist perspective.

The recent "Slut Walks" of 2011 were in part a move by sex positive liberal feminists to reclaim the word "Slut" as a means to empower female sexuality, so that a woman having multiple partners and sleeping with who she wishes is no longer seen culturally as a negative thing.

Women of all ages took part in protests in different cities around the globe, many wearing clothing that proudly identified themselves as sluts, and speeches were given where women proudly declared themselves sluts, and spoke in condemnation of those that had used this term in a negative way against them.

According to molotovmuffin, these women were in fact insulting themselves.

However, of course, that was not their intention; their intention was to change the connotations of that word from negative to positive, so that the term can no longer be used as an insult to shame women, and so that liberated female sexuality is no longer seen as a negative thing. It was an exercise in altering the cultural narrative in a manner which benefits women and their sexual freedom.
 
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petite

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I want to emphasize that most of the guys didn't talk like that or do those things, and the ones who really got into heated arguments with me over things like whether or not women should be called that ended up having deeper problems with women, so when I hear it, it's not just a word, it sounds like "issues" to me.

I loved those guys and living with them was one of the funnest times in my whole life, which is quite remarkable given how often I was surviving on peanut butter and ramen noodles. I just wanted to say that. Getting into an argument over something like that and then making up and going out to the park with a dozen guys and a frisbee to play and laugh and have a great day was just the way it was.
 
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ManofThunder

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I'm a slutty slut. Words mean very little to me. 'Slut' does have a lot of negativity attached to it, but I think it's also worth noting that it's quite commonly used as a meaningless insult. In those cases, you could group it with 'arsehole' or 'git' - far less harmful words. Like many things, it's open to interpretation and needs to be viewed in the context of its usage.
 

Solvejg

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I hate the word. It is used to put down anyone who is sexually confident or even looks like they may be. It is a highly offensive word used purely by others to try to belittle someone else and make their choices seem superior.

There is only one person I like using that word and it is my boyfriend in the bedroom.
 

petite

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I read his comment differently, I said so.

You don't have to agree with how I read it, but I don't appreciate feeling tarred with the brush he's tarred with based on how others read his comments because I agree with how I read it!

(I confess I may be a tad oversensitive on this issue, but hey, I'm not going to be the only one!)

There's also cultural differences with the usage of slurs, too, so that it might sound harsher where I lived at the time than it would where you are.
 

B_quiet_man

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I want to emphasize that ... the ones who really got into heated arguments with me over things like whether or not women should be called that ended up having deeper problems with women, so when I hear it, it's not just a word, it sounds like "issues" to me.

Maybe so, in the cases you've encountered.

But could it also be the case that women that reject men by calling them "creep", "pervert", "lech", "wanker", "loser" and other such demeaning terms that are used to categorize sexual unsuccessfully males have "issues" with men?

We have had "Slut Walks" to reclaim a sexual insult that's directed at women, but how long, I wonder, will it be, before society is progressive enough to have a "Wanker Walk", a "Creep Walk" or a "Lech Walk"?

Can you ever see that happening? I can't!
 

Kotchanski

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There's also cultural differences with the usage of slurs, too, so that it might sound harsher where I lived at the time than it would where you are.

I don't quite understand what you're not understanding about what I've said...

No where have I stated that I don't see it as a slur (in fact I suggested at doing harm to anyone who used it when talking to/about any female in my life that I cared about) No where have I suggested that I don't see it as harsh, or less harsh than you do.

I've simply stated that I understand that while completely unacceptable, there are men out there who don't comprehend the seriousness of using such a term, because in their minds, it is some form of compliment and something to brag about.

Again, I'm not excusing it, I think it's deplorable, but getting others to understand that when as far as they're concerned they're all but complimenting someone, is no small achievement.

The double standard exists, and it is the double standard that needs to be dealt with, because until such a time, it will continue to be used by men without any recognition for the hurt it can cause.

Women however, know full bloody well how they'd feel if called it and they continue to do so regardless (in my experience!)
 

petite

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Maybe so, in the cases you've encountered.

But could it also be the case that women that reject men by calling them "creep", "pervert", "lech", "wanker", "loser" and other such demeaning terms that are used to categorize sexual unsuccessfully males have "issues" with men?

We have had "Slut Walks" to reclaim a sexual insult that's directed at women, but how long, I wonder, will it be, before society is progressive enough to have a "Wanker Walk", a "Creep Walk" or a "Lech Walk"?

Can you ever see that happening? I can't!

I don't have enough experience to say for sure. And is there a particular issue that you are speaking of, or just any issue?

You don't need to be so defensive as to remind me that there are women who have issues, too. It's something I'm aware of. I have friends I feel who have issues with men. I don't know if it's tied to any particular usage of an insulting term or not, I haven't observed that, so I couldn't say for sure.

If a woman used an insulting term for a man, do you think it would be fair of me to try and explain away why it's not insulting? Of course not. I don't.

The Slut Walk is intended to fight victim blaming and it's about stopping rape and sexual violence against women. If somehow a Wanker Walk or a Creep Walk or a Lech Walk somehow had to do with a bigger issue that I believe in, I would participate in it, but I don't think you'll get much traction just trying to remove the negative connotations from those words for the sake of what you feel would be equity.
 
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petite

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I don't quite understand what you're not understanding about what I've said...

No where have I stated that I don't see it as a slur (in fact I suggested at doing harm to anyone who used it when talking to/about any female in my life that I cared about) No where have I suggested that I don't see it as harsh, or less harsh than you do.

I've simply stated that I understand that while completely unacceptable, there are men out there who don't comprehend the seriousness of using such a term, because in their minds, it is some form of compliment and something to brag about.

Again, I'm not excusing it, I think it's deplorable, but getting others to understand that when as far as they're concerned they're all but complimenting someone, is no small achievement.

The double standard exists, and it is the double standard that needs to be dealt with, because until such a time, it will continue to be used by men without any recognition for the hurt it can cause.

Women however, know full bloody well how they'd feel if called it and they continue to do so regardless (in my experience!)

Oh no, I didn't think that you didn't think it wasn't a slur, I was referring to the degree of insult. I was suggesting that possibly in the UK those terms might not be regarded as insulting, which is an idea that ManlyBanisters and dolfette (I think) have both brought up elsewhere in the past few days, but about the word "fuck." I was unsure if this difference extended to any other words, so I brought it up as a possibility.

I can see that, that maybe some guys might just say it because they hear other men say it and they follow suit, not understanding how hurtful it is. That's when I pipe up! :biggrin1:

I think I get what you were saying and I agree with you.
 
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B_quiet_man

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If somehow a Wanker Walk or a Creep Walk or a Lech Walk somehow had to do with a bigger issue that I believe in, I would participate in it, but I don't think you'll get much traction just trying to remove the negative connotations from those words for the sake of what you feel would be equity.

The cause would be to lift the lid on sexual shame generally. There are a lot of shaming sexual words, and they are not all just directed at women; however, "slut vs stud" is the main "double standard" most people are aware of and complain about, but it is in fact the tip of the iceberg.

The shame covering sexuality is vast in our society, and the word "slut" is just one part of it.

It's not true to say we live in a sexually liberated society; quite the opposite.
 

Notsoproud

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Not my -favorite- word but I don't mind saying I -used- to be a slut. In about a year period I banged 50 people roughly. I don't think being a slut is necessarily a BAD thing either. I just don't find it personally agreeable any longer. I have a fair few friends (online and otherwise) who are sluts.

In particular, one of my online acquaintances talks about her slutty experiences a lot on her blog, here A Slut's Memoir
50 people!?

I am jealous :( thats more people then I have had sex with in 5 years