The transsexual syndrome ...

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Nelly Gay, Sep 25, 2006.

  1. Nelly Gay

    Nelly Gay New Member

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    I recently had an appointment at a West London hospital .
    There were 6 "transsexuals" there , all of whom were of very poor appearance with no hope of ever passing as female .
    Some wore micro-mini skirts and heavy make-up whilst others dressed in jeans and a sweater.
    No amount of hormonal therapy and dacial surgery could "transform" them into the ladies they would like to be.
    I worry about their future ....
     
  2. mindseye

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    Ladies wouldn't gossip about your appearance behind their back, and no gentleman would do this, either. Maybe they have enough courage and self-esteem to be happy with themselves regardless of what you think.
     
  3. Lordpendragon

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    Perhaps in the present what they feel about themselves is more important than what others may think about them and what they thought about themselves in the past.

    I met a stunning transexual recently - I didn't realise at all until her friend told me. It influenced me to look into an area that I have been completely ignorant about.
     
  4. D_Elijah_MorganWood

    D_Elijah_MorganWood New Member

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    Some Transsexuals are happy being just that, even if they aren't passable. One of the most interesting people I knew in L.A. was one who wouldn't pass from a galloping horse. She seemed happy the way she was. Her tits were huge and her face looked like Fred Gwynne.
     
  5. Mr. Snakey

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    Oh man Fred Gwynne:biggrin1:
     
  6. jfrsndvs

    jfrsndvs Member

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    OMG, a woman that would look like Herman Munster is just way too scary :eek:


     
  7. Nelly Gay

    Nelly Gay New Member

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    It is a fact of life that life is hard for transsexuals who fail to pass because of their stature, voice, facial features,etc.
    Women are judged to a larger degree on their looks.
    The surgery is irreversible and many post-operative transsexuals have real regrets ....
    I knew many convincing transsexuals ,indeed one was in Playboy and her life was not easy !
    Self-esteem ?
    Why change sex if their self-esteem is so strong ?
     
  8. prepstudinsc

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    I know a person who wants to be a transsexual, but so far has only taken the hormones. He is about 5'3", over 350 pounds, and has a passion for wearing anything with lycra and spandex in it. Needless to say, it's not a pretty sight! This person is also a musician, which is how I know him. The funny (or sad) part, is that while most of the time, he's learned how to speak like a woman, he lapses back into his male voice, which is a dead giveaway that he's a man. Not to mention, that even despite the caked on makeup, you can still see his beard line on his face.

    I don't understand the whole transsexual/gender dysphoria thing. Sometimes I wonder if it's not a cry for help or attention. Call my unsympathetic, but not being in the position, there is no way I can ever understand what they go through.
     
  9. Nelly Gay

    Nelly Gay New Member

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    One of the earlier criteria for selection to gender re-assignment counselling was that you presented as of feminine appearance.
    Strong jaw-lines, excessive musculature and a height of 7ft combined with deep voices , large hands and feet, tattoos and very hirsute bodies do not help in the transition period, political-correctness aside !
    No matter how you feel your transition to "female" will expose you to ridicule and possible violence ,as well as likely, unemployment.
    I hasve known many post-ops who revert back to male (in dress at least).
    It is naive and Polly Anna-ish to think otherwise .
    Transsexuals are one of the largest victim groups like gays, rough-sleepers, prostitutes and drug addicts.
    Reality check to all those "progessive" queens who oiffer platitudes to the contrary .
     
  10. D_Elijah_MorganWood

    D_Elijah_MorganWood New Member

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    I've never met one who has (although I'm sure some do). The ones I've known express what a great relief it is once it's all done.
     
  11. ManiacalMadMan

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    That final part says it all. It is better to be true to ones self than to run aground while pretending to be something that you are not.
    Is it a picnic for the transgendered? Not from what I have seen in most cases and I have also noticed a rather high percentage of substance abuse in connection with gender changing. (I would be curious as to if this is merely my perception or is it actually higher in pre-op and post-op transgendered persons or is it higher in one group over the other and how does it relate percentage-wise to the non-transgendered population There are those who say homosexuals have a higher rate of substance abuse as well.

    Anyway back to the topic...
    With regard to physical appearance, there are plenty of rather homely looking women who have never had a sex change There are women with huge hands and feet and with lower voice range and that is just who they are and yet they are 100% female Similarly there are men who are rather petite individuals with lesser amounts of facial hair, higher voice pitch, small hands which in winter must be clad in women's or children's gloves, but these are still men and in at least 0ne case he was quite a good sized man when his clothes were removed. What I am saying is that those who have made the disparaging remarks in reference to appearance (and this definitely includes NellyG who opened this topic) it always goes to one thing...Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but an additional factor is when the person himself or herself feels their own beauty That inner beauty radiates outward and the rest of the world gets a better feel of the person's beauty.






    (and apologies to Kotchanski for having added more to the thread than was brought into your comments, I just figured to make all my statements in one post rather than go through each one individually and leave 20 posts, again, I offer my sincere and humble apologies and hope it did not offend your good senses)
     
  12. CPearl

    CPearl New Member

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    Each of you makes good points in your posts. Let me speak here as a 'woman of transexual experience.'

    First, we come in all shapes and sizes. Everything from the Fred Gwynnes to former British supermodel Tula; from gargantuan amazons to petite ladies of barely five feet tall. One of my friends is 4' 11" with size five (women's) shoes! Far more of us pass than you can imagine, because, well, if you didn't know, you wouldn't know. Over the years at my doctors office, I have seen countless girls that are 'unspookable.' Several of my friends started successful careers, married, moved to the burbs, and lived the rest of their lives in complete anonymity.

    And yes, there are women with big hands and/or feet, heavy brow bones, broad shoulders, etc. I've even seen women with something akin to a tiny adams apple. The trick is having as few of these characteristics as possible... In my opinion, the voice is the most important. If you look a little rough, but have a female voice, you'll be ok; but if a man's voice comes barrelling out of even the tiniest little lady, the jig is up!

    Soooooo, about the trannies that don't pass... . I agree that passing (or not passing) must be considered when transitioning. It is not the only criteria, but it does come into play. The rough ladies in that waiting room may look quite different in a couple of years after hormones and facial feminization. I once tried to discourage a male friend of mine from transitioning - I thought he would be a beastly woman - but she turned out to be a lovely, passable lady.

    I also agree that some trannies are perfectly content not being able to pass. Some of my rougher looking sisters are happy as clams while more than a couple of the passable beauties I know become absolutely neurotic about passing, making themselves (and others) miserable. Of course, I live in NYC and a tall, gorgeous girl is often given the 'once over.'

    When a young person expresses an interest in transitioning, the first thing I say is 'SLOW DOWN!' This is not a life for the faint-hearted. If you can be satisfied with dressing up - stick with that. I know many transvestites and drag queens who gleefully express their femininity, but don't do anything permanent. For me, it was different. I enjoyed dressing up and 'queening out', but what I really wanted was to live as a female for the rest of my life. So I did!

    I don't have regrets about transitioning. I was 'trans' whether I did anything about it or not, and I suffered far more brutal discrimination as an effeminate boy than I have as a transwoman. It is a hard life in some ways, but when your body and mind are aligned, you are stronger and better able to face adversity.
     
  13. BigFan

    BigFan New Member

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    Nelly, I have not yet finished reading all the treads in this post, so pardon if I restate something I may have yet to read.
    Nonetheless, I find your thoughts and positions on this issue difficult to determine. Your opening sentences seem to indicate you posess an understanding of the lopsided judgements placed on transsexuals as well as other women. Yet you also seem to perpetuate the notion of unfair judgement by having opened this thread in the first place with your own judgements.

    It is true that the (lower) surgery is irreversible and that many post-ops will quickly admit it wasn't the cure-all or quick fix they thought it might have been. But isn't your statement merely an expression that you just don't understand these people? After all -- what is there to say that these people were in the clinic for preparation or furtherment of surgery? Not ALL trans people feel surgery is necessary at all, but they may be seen in a clinic for any number of "ordinary" reasons.

    As for self-esteem: Just because one seeks to deal with or correct an issue medically or surgically has nothing to do with whether one has high self-esteem in general. Personally, when asked about the desire for sugical alteration, I often liken it to having been born with a 6th finger on a hand. While it's true that such an "obvious" (to some) difference might lead to self-conciousness and therefore a desire to change it, that 6th finger wouldn't stop me from having a high sense of self-esteem regarding my intelligence, my work ethic, my familial and community loyalties, my concern for the environment, my ability to cook, etc, etc, etc.

    In short... I am NOT my 6th finger - it's just one unique thing about me. Usually, it is the people who are so quick to point out such a difference who drive others to the desire to change something, and then those same people don't understand why they want to change! THAT is the larger issue to be worried about.
     
  14. BigFan

    BigFan New Member

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    Presentation as having a feminine appearance is NOT the criteria for selection to gender re-assignment counselling. You might try reading the Harry Benjamin Standards of Care. (You can Google them.) In fact, there are no criteria for counselling, only criteria for those wishing to have surgery! What IS required (by SOME doctors, especially in the U.S) is dressing in the gender identity you are/wish to become for a year. (If you're male to female, you dress as a woman - if female to male, you dress as a male.) Misconceptions and ignorance are what keeps any of us from being accepted and/or understood at any given time and we'd all do well to remember that. It's not an attack on you, Nelly, it's just that I feel we would all have been better served if you had started all this with a question as opposed to a statement.

    Also, a question: Aren't aesthetics and appearances subjective? I mean what's beautiful to one person can be hideous to another. It's not like I don't have eyes, and of course, some of us are "average", some are "gorgeous", and some are "ugly". It just depends on two things: first - what WE think of ourselves, and second - the eye of the beholder. But to imply doctors or counselors or anyone should have the right to tell a person they aren't what they say or feel or aspire to be simply because they "don't look enough like it" is absurd!
     
  15. jcjb2002

    jcjb2002 Member

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    folks.. there are surgeons in the USA, Mexico and Thailand that can take a troll from under a bridge and create a butterfly. Truly the only area not perfected is the vocal cord tightening and they are working onthat rapidly. Sometimes it works, sometime for a while, sometime not at all..

    I know people who go to the surgeon in Mexica and look like a completely different person, They will do everything from Veneers on your teeth to fill your bum with peanut or olive oil...

    I know because I spent a good portion of my life pondering the change for myself.. I have toms of great resources and a dear friend in thailand who works with prospective patients.
     
  16. CPearl

    CPearl New Member

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    Yes. 'Facial Feminization' surgery, while extremely expensive, can reshape the bones of the face to give an absolutely feminine appearance. The before and afters are AMAZING...
     
  17. B_big dirigible

    B_big dirigible New Member

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    So, how does one reconcile the mantra "being honest with yourself" with the extensive surgery? In what way can the modified product be considered "yourself"?

    A person who accepts his gender, his eye and hair color, his height and shoe size - that is a person I would say is being honest with both himself and others.
     
  18. mindseye

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    How unfortunate that someone with your mind would consider the "product" to be physical body of the patient. If I were a patient with a male body and a female psyche, I'd find it more natural to consider "myself" to be the psyche, and to consider "being honest with myself" to entail being true to my psyche. I'd be a lot more comfortable with the idea of altering my body -- something that's more invasive than, but comparable to, a haircut -- than with the idea of adjusting my soul to match the shell that contains it.
     
  19. diamond

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    Hi Big Fan,


    Please bare with me since I know little about intersexed gender issues, however your pictures in the gallery demonstrate a man ( physically) however you classify yourself as intersexed. I hope I don't come across rude in anyway, however for the "ignorant newbies" on this site such as myself can you please decipher the difference.

    thanks
     
  20. Nelly Gay

    Nelly Gay New Member

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    There is a Dr in San Francisco who performs this extreme surgery ; peeling by the face and shaving down the eyebrow ridges and jaw lines. The cost is around $40,000 and it is very painful.
    Personally, I think Dr O. creates the patients as uniform with similar, surgically operated-upon features ...
     
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